Collar training vs positive training

[Sowa]

I'm not really sure what it's called but has anyone done both? Train their dogs using training collars (ex: pinch, choker) also train a dog using positive training such as treats and clicker (no pinch etc).

I'm not looking for any arguments over this, I'm simply curious if anyone has tried both, which works better do you think and why? I've trained my past 2 using collars and I'm thinking of doing positive for Clover as I have so far she seems to be doing well with it.

I had talked to a trainer about not using a collar and he said there is no such thing as positive only training. So it doesn't work, don't waste my time basically. However I've been taking Clo to puppy class and the lady only uses positive. She showed me a video of her dogs and it's very impressive how she's trained them. I'm going to her for more help on this at some point.

Just wondering how others feel and how either has worked for you.

[Freedom]

I have never used a choke collar or a pinch collar -- they are prohibited at the place I go to for obedience training, rally O!, and Agility.

Positive training ONLY.

WHY would you want to hurt your dog?

[Suki Wingy]

I DO usually use pinch collars. They don't really hurt when used correctly.
Of course one form of training is never going to work on every single dog, they are each individuals and you may need to alter your training for each animal. The mark of a good trainer is understanding this and being ale to cater to each individual.

[ToBeEvergreen]

Some dogs are sensitive to punishment techniques. Some breeds cannot handle it that well, and may become fearful or aggressive from it.

Positive training, I have found it to have no negative side effects. Food is a VERY strong motivator in some dogs, so it makes an excellent training tool. Although I've yet to try it with Cass, I have also heard that clicker training works well with some dogs. It's becoming more popular to use positive reinforcement, as although it may take a little longer to set in, it seems effective.

Treat= good. Good= repeat that behavior. Or "click"= repeat good behavior. Those connections stick around in the dog's head and are very easy for her to grasp. The dog will do more things that gain a positive reward, because they want more good. I personally will only ever use positive reinforcement methods for my dogs. They've worked fine so far. Knowing a dog's body language and why they do certain things helps a lot. Instead of working against their nature, working with them may be beneficial for training. For example, body language around other dogs. Chances are, your dog will not like every dog she meets. Signs of nervousness or anger can be caught, and the dogs steered away from each other in order to avoid an altercation, rather than this: Dog growls, you hit dog. Dog now associates the strange dog with "hit", and further distaste for other dogs may be harbored. In my opinion, collars only reinforce pain or even discomfort as a control method, but not always a solution, getting down to the root of the problems.

[snakemama]

I use a combination of shock collar training and treat luring. I do a lot of work with Sit Means Sit dog training, where the shock collar is used NOT as a punishment but as a tool to help the dog focus. My first training session was spent with my trainer holding the collar in his hand the entire time and recieving the shocks to make sure I had timing and accuracy down. He said he usually does the first two or three sessions that way, but Jasper and I both learn fast.

It's a very effective way to train, and it means that Jasper has a TON more freedom than he otherwise would, since he can be a guest in people's homes and be mannerly. Before SMS, I couldn't bring him places. We've been through a LOT of training with positive only trainers, and things did improve some, but no matter how hard I worked with him, I couldnt' get certain aspects of his behavior under control.

Now, we get the nicest compliments on his wonderful behavior while we're out! Constantly!

Here's a nice video from a Sit Means Sit trainer! Does Honey look scared or stressed or upset?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTaPe4t4nA

[Lady's Human]

Every dog is different, but I will NEVER use a choke collar.

If I tried it, Lady would pull regardless until she passed out. Sometimes they're just too hard headed. Besides, while I understand the theory involved with choke collars, it just rubs me completely the wrong way.

I wound up training Lady with a mix of positive reinforcement and punishment, and she went from a separation anxiety pup who hated being anywhere near kids to being at least able to tolerate children and a pup who's very secure with her place in the pack. She can handle being alone now, which is something that was a nightmare for the first year or so she was with us.

[J W]

I know this is old, but I wanted to share. There is no such thing as positive only training. People like to think of it as positive only to be politically correct. But using the definitions there is always some punishment as part of the training.

I will go as far as saying no method is better than another. Some trainer are better at using certain methods. Some trainers are just better too. Every animal needs some sort of balance when training. There are some beliefs that method that use corrections are faster then methods that try not to use or minimize the use of "aversions". A slip collar, pinch collar and or and e-collar does not have to cause pain. The word pain is used to frighten the unknowable people off to make you think that they are bad. No one want to hurt their pets. The play on semantics does frighten off many from using these tools. People that often talk about using rewards only an no aversion unless there is no other choice often neglect to mention even if they know it or not that withholding a treat when the dog does not respond they they the owner/handlers wants is also aversive.

Personally I would avoid Petsmart trainers is possible. Yes they can train a dog. Most don't do it well. They really aren't required to know much about training or animal behavior to become one of their trainers. I say this because of first hand knowledge. My son has been training dogs his entire life. He decided to join Petsmart and be one of their trainers. hey advertise that they train their trainers. He didn't mind learning a different method. He was called in interviewed and was going through the training. The training consisted of here is a book, read it and now refer to this book for training and questions. Someone asked a question what if the client ask a question and this is my 1s day. They are supposed to refer to the book/manual and let the client know that they are professionals. No one knows it is your 1st day. In other words they are taking advantage of the customer's lack of knowledge. Then the biggest thing they are supposed to do is to get you to sell you on you need to get the next training package. He turned down the job. he lost a lot of respect for Petsmart and their trainers after that. There are some trainers that have taken classes, attended seminars to make themselves better trainers. But of course they are the exception to the rule. There training comes from outside of their employment. I've had people that have their training there and they come to me only to find out their dog is not really trained. It is only surfaced trained. It will not respond correctly with even the slightest of distractions. I believe that there are some that are well trained. I just haven't run into them. The customers were happy with their training until they learned it should have been more.

[Jessika]

The method used it only as good as the trainer using it.

I will probably sport the highly unpopular opinion in that I do not believe training collars are all bad.

I DO, however, think they are very often misused by owners who are not properly trained in how to use them or who aren't rewarding for the correct/desirable behaviors, hence not getting results.

These are training TOOLS, not training solutions, and many owners seem to confuse the two. They are not meant to be a solution to your problem, but simply an aid to help the training process.