phoenix's health. help/advice please?

[Phoenix]

Hello everyone, my name is shaynie and I have been searching a while for a forum where I can seek advice/help.

My sisters cat gave birth on the 6th november to 4 kittens. One died at birth and as the days went on 2 more died leaving only one. We took mum cat and last kitten to the vet to find out why they all died and what the outlook is for the last kitten. She didn't really know but said it could be a respiratory infection which caused them all to die. She said the last kitten could die that night.

So 10 days later the kitten is still here and seems to be doing well. This kitten will be mine when she is weaned and if she survives. I have named her Phoenix.

What I should tell you is that mum cat has never had any injections and she already had a litter of 3 a few months ago and all where healthy. My sister was going to get her spayed but she was pregnant again so held off.

I visited Phoenix yesterday and she has doubled in weight and her eyes are open too, so she is developing, however she is silent. I stroked her with the tip of my finger and she turned to me and opened her mouth and done it twice but the first she spat, second no noise came out. I know this is normal in kittens as they are trying to protect themselves. When mum is out of the box Phoenix crawls around but never makes a noise for milk or anything. She is clearly feeding as she is gaining weight but my sister said she never makes noise so mum watches her and when she moves goes in there.

I didn't know if this is normal? That mum only relyswatching the kitten to see if she should attend to her or not.

My sister text me today saying phoenix keeps hissing and spitting at her and she isn't even anywhere near her. She actually said she's possessed but I thought I'd ask as there had to be a reason.

I also wanted to know about how Phoenix will develop when she has no litter mates. I know as they get older they play with each other, what will happen in this case? Will she be okay?

Also is there a age that she will reach which she would be at less risk of dyeing? Like the first trimester of pregnancy carrys all the risks. Is there anything in this case? Phoenix never showed sign's of a URI, not one and she seems okay in herself. I'm saying she's a girl as she is Calico and males are very rare. Mum is also Calico and Phoenix is the first Calico of hers.

I'm going to get all her injections and she is going to be a house cat but I'm still thinking about spaying her in case she gets out. I live in a flat alone with no other animals (except tropical fish) so she will get plenty of attention.

I think I have covered everything but if I have missed anything I would be happy to fill you in. Sorry this is long.
Any replies I will be grateful for.

[Karen]

Poor girl, I hope she continues to improve and that she is gaining weight is a good sign. I wouldn't worry about her not making noise when she "meows" - some cats never do. We once had a cat who adopted us when he was about 6 months old - much older than Phoenix, and he'd just open his mouth and nothing came out.

I would schedule an appointment with the vet for Phoenix, just to have her checked out. I hope your sister does get her cat spayed, it'll be better for her, and everyone around. It could be she just wasn't healthy enough to have kittens again so soon, or, as she's had no vaccinations, she had some illness she passed on to them, sadly.

By the way - we worried "Cat" would never learn to make noise, as his best buddy became out Saint Bernard, and cats are not equipped to bark! When he finally managed to make a noise, it was an exact mimic of the squeak the cellar door made!

I wouldn't worry about her development because she's an "only kitten," just make sure she gets and stays healthy, and give her plenty of playtime, and she should be fine!

[Phoenix]

Thank you for your reply. You see this is my first time having a cat, I grew up with cats but they were just there and I was too young to understand.

I want to do right by phoenix and because it was only last Thursday she saw a vet I thought I would wait before taking her again. She isn't showing any worrying signes or anything but this is all new to me so I can't help but worry, especially as all the others died.

The vet said Phoenix should have her first shot at 2 months so nearer the time I will schedual her appointment. I'm already putting away money for her and refuse to let my sister pay for her health checks etc as I see it as it is my responsibility.

I remember the last litter had a kitten that Loved eating litter, so I will buy de-clumping litter or natural stuff. I will buy her scratch post (although none of the others used this and neither did the mum), bowls, bed, toys and fle/ worming stuff. Is there any more I am missing? I want to be fully prepaired.

Some sites say about washing the kittens young and others didn't. I wanted to find out about this because I would have thought that would do more harm than good. I would wash off the scent and mum could reject her. That's the last I need giving the survival rates anyway.

Also milk? Give her cats milk or not? Again some say no and others say yes.

When will she be old enough to travel to the vet alone? (Without mum)
I will take her home in roughly 10-12 weeks so she is fully weaned and mum has taught her the 'kitty home schooling'.

Sorry for all the questions but I want to get it right and I know there will be plenty of other post's during Phoenix's life.

Thank you

[Karen]

Oh, don't apologize for asking questions! Yes, 8-10 weeks should be old enough for her to be weaned and away from her mum. Every day that goes by increases her likelihood of surviving. I would not give her cow's milk, and once she is weaned, she won't need cat's milk, either. Just good kitten food - it is fattier and has more of the stuff a growing kitty needs - and she'll be fine.

You can teach her to use a scratching post, just get one, and show her how it is done, and she'll likely come to enjoy it. If it helps, you can rub it with catnip, but kittens don't usually react to catnip until they are older.

[Phoenix]

Thanks again. Well she is still alive, made it through another day. My sister isn't too keen on her as she said she keeps hissing and spitting, but then she has been saying for 6 years that her house has ghosts. Now both the cats are reacting. Said they are both acting odd. The mum is chasing something around in the air that isn't there (like a invisable fly in the air), and is not really eating much and Phoenix keeps hissing and spitting at 'nothing'.

My mum said make sure I buy her kitten milk so I thought I would ask first as I'm not sure about that.

And yeah I am buying a scratch post regardless of whatever as she already has sharp lil nails. Mum has catnip but isn't to keen on it. Ill test some of mums before I buy it. Thankyou. If anyone has anything else I should know please let me know

Thankyou.

[kittycats_delight]

Cats are lactose intolerant so milk is not needed once weened. Mum's milk gives Phoenix all the nutrients & antibodies etc that she needs. So as for milk, kitten milk (kitten replacement milk) or any lactose free milk is not needed unless she comes home with you before 8 weeks old. I had a kitten we had to bottle feed as she came home with me at 5 weeks old because her mum wouldn't have any more to do with her or her brother.

First vaccinations are at 8 weeks old and usually 4 weeks later she will get her second round of vaccinations. She will be good then for 1 year. Spaying should be done at around 6 months. It is much better to spay before the first heat cycle. Spaying before the first heat cycle (usual at 6 months or so) will decrease (not eliminate) the chances of Phoenix getting certain types of cancer (mainly reproductive cancers like mammary cancer, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer etc). There is a significant decrease in the chances, that being a decrease of about 50%.

Check out this
site for some info. There are many many more out there that will give you supporting information as well as additional information.

As for the hissing at your sister...Phoenix may need some more interaction with people. She could very well just be scared. Also as for Phoenix's mum chasing things that no one sees that isn't all that strange. She could just be bored. She is obviously used to coming and going and occupying herself in the great outdoors. That's a pretty big playground for a kitty so being confined & having to care for a baby is most likely a very boring venture for mum.

I am sure there is lots more to tell you but my mind is a muddle now so if I think of anything else I will post.

Oh, one thing. Do get her spayed whether you intend to let her out or not. It is better in so many ways some of which are in the link I provided. Try to spend some time with Phoenix as much as you can before she is ready to come home with you & maybe leave an old tshirt or something for her to get used to your scent.

[Phoenix]

Hello and thanks for your reply.

I saw Phoenix again tonight and she allowed me stroke her without hissing/spitting at me. I felt really privileged. I'm starting to wonder if the reason she does this is because her ear canal's are starting to open?

Phoenix was a bit early with developing as she opened her eyes around 7-8 days old. (Not sure if that actually is early but the first litters eyes opened a lot later) anyway she slightly reacts to noise which makes her do it. Another theory is that when my sister is out all the lights are off and it's dead silent (my sisters out a lot) so when she gets in Phoenix now has to adjust to the light and noise my sister creates upon returning. Don't know if this could be a reason? Also I thought as she has no litter mates which she once did she is literally alone.

Also mum doesn't sleep with her or sit in the box with her. Today she made her first noise but I noticed mum will talk to her and if she gets no response she walks up and checks her. If she gets a response she will lay down with Phoenix so she can feed which always results is Phoenix passing out in deep sleep. She's out like a light. Mum can sense when she is falling asleep (probably stops suckling) and jumps out and sleeps on the floor facing the box.

Could the fact that mum don't sleep with her make her a bit more scared? She is 12 days old tomorrow but mum does watch her like a hawk.

I was thinking about getting her spayed regardless but could she die when she goes under? As I was told if she does survive she could be a sickly kitty (which may or may not be the case).

I was also thinking about adopting another kitten so she has some company, would this be okay? I'm going to call the vet either tomorrow or monday to book her injections and will fire away questions at the vet so I'm not constantly asking on here.

As you may have noticed, I'm someone that has to be the best at what I do, okay isn't good enough for me... I have to be brilliant at it, so getting it right the first time round is a big deal for me.

I will post pics of phoenix soon when I figure out how to.

[kittycats_delight]

It would be great to get a second kitty for company. Many of us often suggest getting 2 kittens instead of 1. Be warned they will get into more mischief together than alone but they are constantly entertaining and will make you laugh & smile to no end.

7-8 days is early for opening the eyes. Eyes normally open between 10-14 days. Just because she is the only survivor doesn't mean she will be sickly. Usually when there is a litter and only one survives it is because that 1 is a fighter & stronger.

There is always a risk with anesthesia whether it is a cat, dog, other animal or human. It is never 100% risk free. Ask you vet if they do pre-surgery blood work. Most vets do & it lets them know if she will be at a higher risk than others. It is very rare for something to happen under anesthesia. I have known only 1 person that it happened with and it wasn't because something went wrong. It was because they found a large inoperable tumor & the cat was really ill. This was an older cat as well. I have had 2 very skinny feral cats spayed with no issue. Both had given birth 2 weeks before the surgery. They are both happy & healthy & living inside with NO desire to go out at all.

Talk to you vet. Inundate her with questions. They are professionals and are there to help you make an informed decision & to make the best decision regarding your cat. Also, keep asking us questions here. Between the members here, some of which have been rescuing for years and others who have special needs cats, have a font of information to help. They have countless years of experience dealing with things from the simple to the most complex that you can imagine.

We are here to help if we can & do it gladly. Let us know what you vet says ok.

Michelle

BTW...I have a Phoenix too.

[moosmom]

You might want to give her goat's milk! My cats LOVE it and it's totally lactose free. It's good for them, with lots of calories and nutrients.

You can get it powdered at any pet store, or at a farm that has goats.

You got some GREAT advice here. Nothing else I could add. Don't ever apologize for asking questions. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here. Welcome!!

[Phoenix]

Hiya,

My sister once brought two kittenss that were both female she called shekerah and shekana and my sister said they were really really bad so she gave them away. About a year or two later she got another cat (Phoenix's mum) who's called Princess and her first litter was a litter of 3, one pure black, one ginger and another black and white and my sisters friend took two the kittens together (I sexed them all as boys and am correct). This girl who took two kittens say's they are really really bad together and I was thinking about taking one of them but not too long after princess was pregnant and I decided to wait.

I have the patience for animals were as they both have not.

Yes the vet said she could be very sickly, but then we did go to a pet hospital that relys on donations to keep it running which you don't have to pay for, so they will see your animal and give you medication if needed for free and you can choose to donate or not. So maybe the treatment you get there reflects the payment they get. When I was worrying about Phoenix they said they can't do anything for kittens. If she was going to die then they can't do anything and said 'its just a waiting game with kittens'. Apparently. You cannot do anything for kittens but can for cats. I found that a bit strange. But didn't argue as they are the vets.

I will fire questions at the vet and if I don't like the possible outcome or they can't do a test before I will re-think.

Princess drinks Goat's milk but didn't understand why they can drink that but not cow's milk? Does cows milk contain something Goats doesn't? Or is Goats just more Gentle?

You see I myself don't Drink or eat any dairy so I wouldn't know much about it.

P.S - michelle I remember looking on the past posts before I signed up and your blinking picture come up with Phoenix. I was glad to see someone else with the name as everyone thinks I'm crazy using it. I thought given the circumstances it would be perfect as the vet said she would die the next night as all 3 of her litter mates died and she survived and I believe that because all of us are wishing she survives she is getting the wishes/luck.

It would be great to get a second kitty for company. Many of us often suggest getting 2 kittens instead of 1. Be warned they will get into more mischief together than alone but they are constantly entertaining and will make you laugh & smile to no end.

7-8 days is early for opening the eyes. Eyes normally open between 10-14 days. Just because she is the only survivor doesn't mean she will be sickly. Usually when there is a litter and only one survives it is because that 1 is a fighter & stronger.

There is always a risk with anesthesia whether it is a cat, dog, other animal or human. It is never 100% risk free. Ask you vet if they do pre-surgery blood work. Most vets do & it lets them know if she will be at a higher risk than others. It is very rare for something to happen under anesthesia. I have known only 1 person that it happened with and it wasn't because something went wrong. It was because they found a large inoperable tumor & the cat was really ill. This was an older cat as well. I have had 2 very skinny feral cats spayed with no issue. Both had given birth 2 weeks before the surgery. They are both happy & healthy & living inside with NO desire to go out at all.

Talk to you vet. Inundate her with questions. They are professionals and are there to help you make an informed decision & to make the best decision regarding your cat. Also, keep asking us questions here. Between the members here, some of which have been rescuing for years and others who have special needs cats, have a font of information to help. They have countless years of experience dealing with things from the simple to the most complex that you can imagine.

We are here to help if we can & do it gladly. Let us know what you vet says ok.

Michelle

BTW...I have a Phoenix too.

[kittycats_delight]

I have 2 litter mates myself now. They are 7 months old. They are into everything but they are so much fun & so funny. The bigger of the 2 a male is a complete lover. The second you touch him he is purring like a motor. His sister, the smaller one, is a lover when she wants to be but she is wild wild wild. We are forever telling her to get down cause she climbs everything. She is always on top of the cabinets, closets, and even to the top of the curtains. She talks and talks and talks. I had Pirate (the male) neutered about 3 weeks ago and Opera (the female) is going in to be spayed on December 5th (my birthday nonetheless). I had their mum spayed a few months back and she is now living in her new home with her 'boy' (a little boy of 4) & is completely at home, relaxed & happy. I have Bella & Frost who are mother and son. Bella was abandoned in the corn fields near our house and by the time I got her to trust me she was already pregnant. I had both of them altered as well. No issues at all. I have never ever had an issue with spaying or neutering an animal. While, yes, I worry when they go to get altered, I don't ever think twice about getting it done. After going through mammary cancer with a my Mytzi years ago I would never want to chance that again. I was terrible.

I don't know what the vets were referring to with not being able to help kittens. That is utter nonsense. You just need to ask some of the folks here. There are some people here who have nursed kittens are did anything and everything possible for them from the time they were born. (mom rejected them or there just wasn't a mom for some reason or other) I would say if this one vet says they don't do pre surgery tests then call another. Get more than 1 opinion is always best.

We named our kitty Phoenix for somewhat the same reason. We got Phoenix when she was 3. She had been taken from an abusive home. She has scars are her face from getting kicked & she has major trust & abandonment issues too. She can 'snap' pretty quick but she is 150% better than when we brought her home. It took a long time to be able to touch her without gloves and an even longer time to be able to pick her up. She is still spitty & bitey on occasion and you have to really watch her body language or she will tag you if she is in a bad mood but she is another cat than the one we brought home. When we gave her another chance at a home we said she was like the phoenix being reborn from the ashes only in her case it was being reborn into a life without fear & abuse so that's how she got her name.

Time for me to shut up. As you can see I can go on and on. hehehhe

Keep us posted on what happens with the vets & any new developments with your baby.

Michelle

[Phoenix]

For those of you that are interested in what Phoenix looks like I have attached two pictures of her, they both show her life as it is now. Sleeping (always on her side curled up or back if mums there. And mum cleaning her just before feeding (has to be before feeding because after feeding Phoenix goes into a deep sleep).

I will see what Phoenix is like alone before I think of adding another kitten as I know some times they like to be alone.

I thought the vet saying nothing can be done for kittens was strange as I remember the last vet I worked in had a kitten there with neuro problems.

I was once bitten by one of the Feral cats at my previous vet job who had FIV. He was fine one minute, allowed me to pet him then her suddenly turnt and lashed out. I waited for him to calm down before petting him again to say it's okay. I know how temper mental animals can be.

I also have a female Dogue de Bordeaux we had from a puppie, she is 7 now and has had health problems after the other and she is also very temper mental, and can be aggressive around food so I'm somewhat use to temper mental pets.

[kittycats_delight]

She is beautiful!!! She looks quite healthy too. Nice round tummy. Clear, bright eyes. Those photos definitely induced an 'AWWWWWW' moment!!!

One thing to add but I am sure you know this anyway. If your dog can be aggressive around her food make sure you keep the kitty away when it is the dog's feeding time. I would suggest closing Phoenix in another room until your dog is finished or closing your dog in a room with her food until she is done. Best to avoid anything happening if she is food aggressive.

[phesina]

She is beautiful! God bless you both.

[Phoenix]

She is indeed beautiful. She is 11 days old there. She done her first cry for milk then and I was soo happy/excited and over joyed it was unbelievable. Everyone else thinks I'm being silly for 'overreacting' but that's a big thing for me. For me it's another sign she is healthy.

My dog doesn't live with me, she lives with my mum (I moved out over a year ago and I was 17 which is apparently illigal here) when I left I fought to keep my guinea pigs which nearly got me kicked out (no animals allowed) but wasn't going to be able to keep the dog as my mum wanted to keep her (which is fine by me, she is too much).

Phoenix will be my only pet in the house since my guinea pigs died so she will have the whole place to herself and will not be in any danger what so ever.

I'm glad you think she's cute too.