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Thread: An interesting article - surely hope it doesn't come true!

  1. #1
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    An interesting article - surely hope it doesn't come true!

    By ANDREW OSBORN (Wall Street Journal)
    MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.


    Igor Panarin
    In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

    Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

    But it's his bleak forecast for the U.S. that is music to the ears of the Kremlin, which in recent years has blamed Washington for everything from instability in the Middle East to the global financial crisis. Mr. Panarin's views also fit neatly with the Kremlin's narrative that Russia is returning to its rightful place on the world stage after the weakness of the 1990s, when many feared that the country would go economically and politically bankrupt and break into separate territories.

    A polite and cheerful man with a buzz cut, Mr. Panarin insists he does not dislike Americans. But he warns that the outlook for them is dire.

    "There's a 55-45% chance right now that disintegration will occur," he says. "One could rejoice in that process," he adds, poker-faced. "But if we're talking reasonably, it's not the best scenario -- for Russia." Though Russia would become more powerful on the global stage, he says, its economy would suffer because it currently depends heavily on the dollar and on trade with the U.S.

    Mr. Panarin posits, in brief, that mass immigration, economic decline, and moral degradation will trigger a civil war next fall and the collapse of the dollar. Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control.

    In addition to increasing coverage in state media, which are tightly controlled by the Kremlin, Mr. Panarin's ideas are now being widely discussed among local experts. He presented his theory at a recent roundtable discussion at the Foreign Ministry. The country's top international relations school has hosted him as a keynote speaker. During an appearance on the state TV channel Rossiya, the station cut between his comments and TV footage of lines at soup kitchens and crowds of homeless people in the U.S. The professor has also been featured on the Kremlin's English-language propaganda channel, Russia Today.

    Mr. Panarin's apocalyptic vision "reflects a very pronounced degree of anti-Americanism in Russia today," says Vladimir Pozner, a prominent TV journalist in Russia. "It's much stronger than it was in the Soviet Union."

    Mr. Pozner and other Russian commentators and experts on the U.S. dismiss Mr. Panarin's predictions. "Crazy ideas are not usually discussed by serious people," says Sergei Rogov, director of the government-run Institute for U.S. and Canadian Studies, who thinks Mr. Panarin's theories don't hold water.

    Mr. Panarin's résumé includes many years in the Soviet KGB, an experience shared by other top Russian officials. His office, in downtown Moscow, shows his national pride, with pennants on the wall bearing the emblem of the FSB, the KGB's successor agency. It is also full of statuettes of eagles; a double-headed eagle was the symbol of czarist Russia.

    The professor says he began his career in the KGB in 1976. In post-Soviet Russia, he got a doctorate in political science, studied U.S. economics, and worked for FAPSI, then the Russian equivalent of the U.S. National Security Agency. He says he did strategy forecasts for then-President Boris Yeltsin, adding that the details are "classified."

    In September 1998, he attended a conference in Linz, Austria, devoted to information warfare, the use of data to get an edge over a rival. It was there, in front of 400 fellow delegates, that he first presented his theory about the collapse of the U.S. in 2010.

    "When I pushed the button on my computer and the map of the United States disintegrated, hundreds of people cried out in surprise," he remembers. He says most in the audience were skeptical. "They didn't believe me."

    At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S.

    He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

    California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.

    "It would be reasonable for Russia to lay claim to Alaska; it was part of the Russian Empire for a long time." A framed satellite image of the Bering Strait that separates Alaska from Russia like a thread hangs from his office wall. "It's not there for no reason," he says with a sly grin.

    Interest in his forecast revived this fall when he published an article in Izvestia, one of Russia's biggest national dailies. In it, he reiterated his theory, called U.S. foreign debt "a pyramid scheme," and predicted China and Russia would usurp Washington's role as a global financial regulator.

    Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama "can work miracles," he wrote. "But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

    The article prompted a question about the White House's reaction to Prof. Panarin's forecast at a December news conference. "I'll have to decline to comment," spokeswoman Dana Perino said amid much laughter.

    For Prof. Panarin, Ms. Perino's response was significant. "The way the answer was phrased was an indication that my views are being listened to very carefully," he says.

    The professor says he's convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union -- 15 years beforehand. "When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him," says Prof. Panarin.

  2. #2
    The part about Alaska going to Russia strikes me as a good idea these days ...but the rest is rather far out. Mexico has far too many problems to take on Texas and...well so on...

    Another Nostradamus!

  3. #3
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    LOLOLOLOL,

    We lasted longer than the USSR and the KGB combined. and if it does happen in 2010 we can always blame Barack Obama.


    Some where Arthur C. Clarke is laughing.


    Two places he did not address is South Central El Lay and Pacoima-Which country would even try for that prized land?


    -------------

    Oh well, The Mayans have predicted that the world will end in 2012.

    I really don't give an shiat. Just as long as we get the London Olympics in.

  4. #4
    We haven't lasted longer than the KGB. The KGB is just another incarnation of the Russian Secret Police, which has existed as an organization since the early Tsars. It would take the US another 800 years or so to beat their record of longevity.

    Russian history in a quick line? Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    We haven't lasted longer than the KGB. The KGB is just another incarnation of the Russian Secret Police, which has existed as an organization since the early Tsars. It would take the US another 800 years or so to beat their record of longevity.

    Russian history in a quick line? Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss.
    I have to quit eating Campbell's alphabet.....it confuzzles me.

    ---------------

    I guess that Who song was banned for the longest time?

  6. #6
    Wanna have fun with alphabet soup?

    Sit in on a joint staff (multi component) meeting.

    The Army, USAF, Navy and USMC can't agree on which acronym means what. We have a 600 some odd page (and growing) manual that tells staff bubbas which acronym means what to which service.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    Wanna have fun with alphabet soup?

    Sit in on a joint staff (multi component) meeting.

    The Army, USAF, Navy and USMC can't agree on which acronym means what. We have a 600 some odd page (and growing) manual that tells staff bubbas which acronym means what to which service.
    Oh, I dunno.

    You go to a MPH office and you get an EKG with a CBC and a UA, X-Ray, You talk to a NP or an MD to figure out if your BP, HR and overall health is WNL.

    A CAT scan or an ECG, maybe?

    And a GI series calls for you to go NPO for that BE!

    And then you have to worry about R-e-s-p-e-c-t!

    SOCK IT TO ME!
    SOCK IT TO ME!
    SOCK IT TO ME!
    SOCK IT TO ME!
    SOCK IT TO ME!

  8. #8
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    Civil war again? I don't think so. Been there, done that. I could see
    Russia wanting to believe this prediction, but I cannot believe the scenario
    he predicts.


    Besides, Sarah Palin is keeping an eye on Russia for us.

    " Around the end of June 2010, or early July, he says, the U.S. will break into six pieces -- with Alaska reverting to Russian control."
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Today is the oldest you've ever been, and the youngest you'll ever be again.

    Eleanor Roosevelt

  9. #9
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    The Russians would have to commit a massive amount of their millitary if they could even hope to reclaim Alaskan soil as their own, and they know it. Unless they nuke us. Wishful think on the part of the Russkie economist.

    ES, if AK went back to the Russians, America or whats left of it in this scenario would lose alot of natural resources as well as one of the largest shipping hubs between North America and the Orient. So how is that a good idea?

    And by shear numbers alone, if the Mesicans wanted to they could over run Texas, Southern California, heck all of the border states. Wait they have been doing that for years.

    Lizbud, a second civil war might be what is needed to fix what has gone wrong with the experiment that is the United States of America. Most Republics dont last more then 200 years if I remember my history correctly.
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue View Post
    The Russians would have to commit a massive amount of their millitary if they could even hope to reclaim Alaskan soil as their own, and they know it. Unless they nuke us. Wishful think on the part of the Russkie economist.

    The Russkies have to open a window (global warning) and need a samovar to whiz in.....


    Not likely.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    Not likely.
    Indeed.
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  12. #12
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    It was more amusing than anything. Can I see any New England states not only seceding but joining the EU? No way!

    We may not all agree on everything, but we are one country.
    I've Been Frosted

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    It was more amusing than anything. Can I see any New England states not only seceding but joining the EU? No way!

    We may not all agree on everything, but we are one country.

    That means the Patriots and Bosox have to play in another division?

    Maybe the Celtics will join the EU?

  14. #14
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    Not happening, as well.
    I've Been Frosted

  15. #15
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    Seeing how at each others throats we are? I call it 50/50. 100% if Obama goes after the 2nd Amendment like he has in the past. Montanta, Texas, Vermont and Idaho are ready NOW.


    Unless things RADICALLY change, it is almost as unevitable as the sun rising in the East. Our economy simply cannot go on like this forever. When it tanks this time, it is REALLY going to tank and the urban masses are going to be in a bad way... I feel this way because of the way our "leaders" are handling this crisis. MAKING new money?!???! So what happens when the shoe drops and the same amount of goods and services chase 10 times the amount of dollars? (Weimar Republic, only worse) This is going to happen because Obama's plan of putting people to work doing things that the market is not demanding, does ZERO to help in the long term.

    Have none of the people in DC ever taken an economics class???
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

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