Pics to Share

[Spiritwind]

I haven't been online here for a year or so.. but finally after things around here have calmed down a little bit.. I'm back LOL so thought I'd share some of the recent pictures I got of a couple of my dogs...


Andy - Spiritwind Visionary - 14 months


Andy

Then pictures of Andy's brother Aiden...


Aiden - Spiritwind Vision Quest - 14 months

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Welcome back! Your boys are stunning

[cyber-sibes]

Handsome fluffy boys!

[cassiesmom]

Wow, wowie wow! Andy and Aiden, you're magnificent! Beautiful.

Spiritwind (or anyone else!), can you help me with something I've always wanted to know? How is a collie the same or different from a Sheltie? And just one more question - there are collies, border collies, smooth collies, rough collies, bearded collies - what differentiates them from each other? Do they all have that sweet collie personality? I've only known one in my life, but he was very patient and loved to be petted.

[Spiritwind]

Thanks Cassiesmom,

First... Collies and shelties are very different. I know to alot of people they look very similar other than size... but there are a lot of differences. Shelties are not miniature Collies, they are a completely different breed.

Obviously there is the size difference. Collies are supposed to be males 24-26" tall and females 22-24" tall. Shelties are supposed to be 13-16" tall I believe??? but Sheltie are disqualified for being under or over sized in the show ring.. where are Collies are not..

The biggest difference to me (and I do not own shelties, but there are several that live on the property - not mine.. hard to explain) but the biggest difference to me is their temperament. I am trying to word this the right way because I don't want to offend anyone.. because I am NOT trying to say anything negative about shelties, they are a great breed and beautiful dogs.. just not for me. I guess overall Collies are more mellow.. though again I have a couple that would be bouncing off the walls if they were left inside with little exercise throughout the day... so they are still very active. Shelties are more excitable (based on the ones I have known and I have known A LOT).. and IMO are a bit more barky, though my Collies do their fair share of barking. I don't know, its hard to explain, but once you are around both breeds for a while it is so easy to notice how different they really are.

Also.. Collies come in 2 coat varieities (rough and smooth) and 4 colors - Sable, Tri-Color, Blue Merle and Color Headed Whites. Shelties obviously don't come smooth coated, and along with the 4 colors Collies come in, shelties also come in Bi-Blue and Bi-Black (Blue merle and white or black and white with no tan points).. Color headed white Collies can be shown, Color headed white shelties cannot.

Both are very smart dogs that are easily trained and great family dogs...

As far as your other question... typically when a person says they have a Collie they are talking about Rough or Smooth Collies. Aiden and Andy are Rough Colliess. The AKC registers Rough and smooth Collies just as Collies. On their papers it does not say the coat varieity (rough or smooth). Rough and Smooths are just different varieties of the same breed... Roughs and Smooths can be bred together. I will post pics of some of my other dogs both roughs and smooths.

I have only ever known a handful of border collies and bearded collies, but they are both a completely different breed from collies (rough and smooth)..they all have their own distinct temperament... all are herding breeds that originated in scotland and/or northern england.

Here are some pics of some of my dogs:


This is Paris - CH Spiritwind Barely An Angel. My smooth sable Collie. Her mother is a rough coat her sire is a smooth coat.


This is Kelsey - Spiritwind Ain't No Angel. She is a rough tri-color, and she is also Paris' litter sister. She is also the mother of Aiden and Andy.


This is Lucy - ptd. Spiritwind Rumor Has It - a smooth tri-color. Sire is a smooth dam is a rough. Pictured at just 4 months old.


And last but not least this is Angie, a rough blue merle - who is the mother of Paris and Kelsey. Her sire was a smooth tri-color her dam was a rough blue.

[anna_66]

Hey there...welcome back!

Nice to see some pictures of your gorgeous dogs

[Karen]

Beautiful doggies, good to see you back. Thanks for sharing the pictures! Your boys have certainly filled out well, those are very impressive white "shirtfronts" they've both got!

[chocolatepuppy]

Your collies are gorgeous! Welcome back!

[binka_nugget]

The biggest difference to me (and I do not own shelties, but there are several that live on the property - not mine.. hard to explain) but the biggest difference to me is their temperament. I am trying to word this the right way because I don't want to offend anyone.. because I am NOT trying to say anything negative about shelties, they are a great breed and beautiful dogs.. just not for me. I guess overall Collies are more mellow.. though again I have a couple that would be bouncing off the walls if they were left inside with little exercise throughout the day... so they are still very active. Shelties are more excitable (based on the ones I have known and I have known A LOT).. and IMO are a bit more barky, though my Collies do their fair share of barking. I don't know, its hard to explain, but once you are around both breeds for a while it is so easy to notice how different they really are.

I'll vouch for that! Shelties are typically a little more "yap, yap, yap" *zoomies* "yap, yap, yap". The Collies I've known have been more mellow, yet still very active and playful.. just a little more stable as far as excitability goes.

Beautiful dogs Spiritwind! It's great to see you back! I was actually just thinking about your dogs the other day and wondering where you went.

[Shelteez2]

You have way too many dogs. You should get rid of some.



My address is...... lol

OMG *swoons* I am in love with Andy. Send him on up

[IRescue452]

your dogs are very beautiful.

Other differences between the sheltie and collies are the skull and tail. Collies have a less defined stop. Shelties have a definate stop and their top skull must parallel their muzzle. Shelties cannot have a twist at the end of the tail as do collies. Shelties tails must also end at the hocks, collies can go further.

[Spiritwind]

Shelteez.. LOL I'm sure your dogs would just love to have Andy added to their pack if you really want to LOL


IRescue452 has far as the other differences between Collies and Shelties... Shelties do have more stop.. Collies stops are less defined, however Collies are supposed to have a slight stop.. but Collies head plains (backskull and muzzle) should also be parallel to eachother just like shelties... its not supposed to be a straight line from backskull to muzzle (there should be a slight "break" where the stop is) though I know a lot of dogs are more like that.

Collies tails are supposed to go to atleast to top of the hock joint... I know shelties tails are supposed to reach at least to the hock joint, however I know A LOT of shelties with shorter tails.. I've seen some at shows where the tail only goes half way to the hock (and I know several sheltie breeders and have seen this in some of their dogs)... the other people that live on the property (professional handlers) have a sheltie litter right now, where one of the pups was born with such a short tail it looks like it was docked... its also got a cork screw twist/kink to the tail... but if it was straight it still wouldn't be very long.. but you are right.. collie tails tend to have a little twist at the end where shelties do not, or are not supposed to... both dogs should carry the tail straight out from their body when moving (collies with the little twist).. and not up over their back... like i see in a lot of Collies at shows..

[Flatcoatluver]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!


Also to add, I can't tell you how many times I have been asked if Sage was a mini Collie.

[CountryWolf07]

You have way too many dogs. You should get rid of some.



My address is...... lol

OMG *swoons* I am in love with Andy. Send him on up

lol...

Beautiful dogs!!

My aunt has a Collie named Beau.

[Spiritwind]

Wow! Your dogs are so stunning! I hope someday to own a rough or smooth. I tend to worry about bloat though. I just can't get over how stunning Andy is!!.

Thanks Flatcoatluver...
As far as bloat goes, you just gotta make sure you do your research and find a breeder who is honest about whether or not they have had bloat in their lines. I know no one can say for sure what causes bloat, and I am sure the cause is not 100% genetic, there are other factors and causes, however I know it runs in certain lines and you have just got to find a breeder who will be honest about it.. and their are pleanty of breeders out there that will try to hide it, or make up stupid excuses for why it happens in their lines.

If it happens onces or twice and there is no history of close relatives bloating in the predigree.. ok that might be a fluke.. however if you can look at a 5 generation pedigree and name off several dogs in each generation that bloated or produced offspring that later bloated then I'm sorry...you have a problem, whether that breeder wants to admit it or not... I know of a very popular stud dog back in the early 80's that bloated 3 times before it finally killed him...

If it happens in an older dog... 7-8-9 yrs or old.. It can be caused by other things... abdominal masses or other tumors etc.. I friend of mine had her 9yr old lab bloat last year because of a tumor in the abdomen... when it happens in young and otherwise healthy dogs 2-3-4-5 yr old dogs... it is MY personal opinion its very likely genetic... unless you can find other reasons for it.

I have had Collies for just over 13yrs now, and I have had 2 Collies bloat in that time. It was actually father and son who bloated (hmm... kinda odd if other breeders wanna say its not partly genetic??? and there were several other dogs back in their pedigree who bloated) The son bloated first at ONLY 7 months old... I caught it early, he had the surgery to tack his stomach, and was saved.. and later after he recovered from that, was neutered and placed in a pet home that knew his history and had experience with bloat dogs (she had Irish Wolf Hounds that bloated years ago).. he is a happy and healthy 5yr old now. Just over 1yr after the puppy bloated his father was at the co-owners house, she came home from work and found him dead.. he bloated. She said he was fine that morning before she left, acting happy and energetic like he normally was. I do not have any dogs closely or directly related to those 2 dogs anymore... except for one of my smooths who is an outcross one the other side of her pedigree.. so she is not tightly bred on it all...

I have known so many other breeders who have lost so many dogs to bloat and I just don't understand why they try to make excuses for it or even try to hide that it happened... it doesn't help the breed... just admit there is a problem and work to fix it! There are pleanty of other lines out there with no history of bloat... that is one reason why I bought my smooth male Zack several years ago.. I'll post his picture.
Zack is Paris, Kelsey and Lucy's sire.. and the grandsire of Aiden and Andy.


Zack

He is tightly bred on and is from a long line of geneticly sound and healthy, long lived dogs.. his great grandsire "Andre" as of the 2007 CCA nationals (where I last saw Andre) was still alive and showed at the national in the 11+yr old Vetran class... he was very slow to move.. but he was 14yrs old at that point!!

A few years ago me and a friend of mine were visiting another collie kennel just to see what they had and look at their dogs.. and the lady there had this 7yr old male she was so excited she was going to have a vetran dog to show at the national that year.. she said she had never had one before.. said her dogs didn't usually make it that long.... please tell me why that is a good thing????

Ok.. I could go on and on about this.. so I better stop now...

Janna