Breeder Impressions

[applesmom]

This discussion could be an extremely educational one and deserves it's own thread completely away from the New Baby thread. I'm sure we can all agree that not a single one of us wants to spoil anyone's joy over a new puppy by continuing the discussion in that thread.

Let's begin with this quote from borzoimom: "I know honey, and that is why I checked into this. You would have heard from me by now if something felt out of place. I know what to ask, how to say what, how to get the information, and I was impressed. ( that is not easy to do with me as you know..).."


Borzoimom using your research in this instance as an example; can you elaborate on the questions you asked and the "Impressive" answers that led you to feel secure about this breeder? Your response and the discussion that would most certainly follow could be a valuable tool for anyone who is looking for a healthy well adjusted pet quality puppy in the future.

[cali]

I am curious myself, I scoured every last bit I could find on this breeder, and I did not find anything at all the least bit impressive, I know full well when expressions are normal for a pug, exprssions had nothing to do with my comments in the other thread, the puppy is cute sure, and I have no problem with mismarks, but it concerned me that the parents had no titles, no apperent health certifcations, and did not not look right. as far as I am concerned nobdy has any buisness breeding if it is not to better the breed. in most cases I am against show breeding, because of my working BC background. however Pugs do not HAVE a working purpose, their lap dogs, so as far as I am concerned if your not breeding pugs to standard then your not breeding properly. the parnets of the pups are PET quality, no more and should have been spayed.

[borzoimom]

This discussion could be an extremely educational one and deserves it's own thread completely away from the New Baby thread. I'm sure we can all agree that not a single one of us wants to spoil anyone's joy over a new puppy by continuing the discussion in that thread.

Let's begin with this quote from borzoimom: "I know honey, and that is why I checked into this. You would have heard from me by now if something felt out of place. I know what to ask, how to say what, how to get the information, and I was impressed. ( that is not easy to do with me as you know..).."


Borzoimom using your research in this instance as an example; can you elaborate on the questions you asked and the "Impressive" answers that led you to feel secure about this breeder? Your response and the discussion that would most certainly follow could be a valuable tool for anyone who is looking for a healthy well adjusted pet quality puppy in the future.

No problem applesmom- I called and asked about the puppies. I asked how old the female was and the male. I asked what tests they did on them before breeding- I always listen for a pause- I got no pause and told- not rehearsed just open and honest-. I asked how many puppies were born in the litter, how many died ( none) then asked if they loose puppies in their litters- I got a quick NONE then irratated like why would you ask that? I said well pugs are known to have litters that need a C section- then I heard calm in the voice ( I think they thought I was looking for a puppy to breed) then calm in the voice and said well it can happen but we try for smaller males. We had one C section a few years back but the female only had two pups. I asked if they ever showed their dogs. They said they tried but not alot of shows in the area ( I had already checked and they only had 5 shows in a 4 month period even near where they were) then she said also with puppies coming I did not want to take them to shows.. ( fell over to me- that would have been my worries too with a litter coming- i do not go anywhere when a litter is coming- the whole pregnancy or during when they are pups under 2 shots).. Then she asked me a few questions what I wanted as they did not have any other puppies- and I fessed up that I was checking on a puppy a dear friend was looking at from them.. She giggled- and said she had not been checked out often, but loved the fact she was... Then we got more into detail- it is a pug lover- loves the breed, has two nice ones, but really not showing much because it takes 4 months out of showing and I agree with that. I asked about size, the weight of the pups at birth, shots given- and all of it fit what a caring owner that loved a breed would do... I NEVER heard wild ruckus in the back ground like a house with alot of dogs- NEVER HEARD- anything but peace in the house with the occasional puppy noise so obviously she was even sitting with the pups during our whole conversation. I asked her to say nothing to " junes" and I just wanted to check it out as they loved curly soo much! I could just hear the compassion in her voice- said hold on a few times as I could hear her dogs came first and not some lady on a phone, and I was impressed- and that is hard to do with me! Also- the pictures I got later on email- the dogs are nice looking dogs- good heads and shoulders- good topline- and nicely built- hardly poor quality breeding stock if you will. She has few respritory problems, and anyone getting this breeds knows the genetic problems in store- however- the parents are clear of this, and good characters.
It takes conversation- listening to tones of voice to your questions, but also the pauses- which means- what should I say to the listener... I heard nothing held back in responses other than when I asked about free whelp and we laughed about that as she got worried I was asking for reasons of having puppies of my own= A TOTAL RED FLAG TO ANY BREEDER TO WATCH OUT!!!! ( I didnt sell a shepherd pup once because the husband kept asking me how many puppies a shepherd could have-- you know that cold chilll you get when something is wrong??? I had it...)

[cali]

thanks for explaining that borzoimom, most of us only had access to the pages from from the webpages the parents looked bad and there were no testing or anything of the sort mentioned, the the pages alone I would not have run and not walked from this breeder.

[borzoimom]

thanks for explaining that borzoimom, most of us only had access to the pages from from the webpages the parents looked bad and there were no testing or anything of the sort mentioned, the the pages alone I would not have run and not walked from this breeder.

If you want me to check out some breeder- I have free long distance and I would be happy to do so... lol...and more thing cali- I also do not list all the testings I do either... Someone doing webpages, if not a dog person, would not know to include things ... As a dog person- I do... The non showing person sees listing tests as their dogs are sick... sounds stupid to dog people but they do... But at the same time- a website that lists tests a-z also scares me more- they have a ton of dogs... look out!

[caseysmom]

I personally have a new policy of never buying a dog again. I will only save shelter dogs, that is what is important to me.

I admit there was a time when I have paid for a dog from a breeder that was probably a byb. I took a lot of good advice from this site and now I see the error of my past ways. I think the thing for me is that every dog you buy from a breeder there is a perfectly lovely homeless dog in a shelter. That is how I feel, I feel we need to educate everyone so we can no longer have so many homeless animals. I am not pushing it down anyone's throat, that is just my feeling.

[junescrater716]

Pugs are hard to find in a shelter or if we do there is something wrong with it. So, we decided to go to a breeder.

[caseysmom]

I tried to rescue a pug and I had a hard time because we have a pool and pugs drown easily, there are lots in rescue.

My veterinarian advised me against pugs also because it is pretty hot here where I live.

[borzoimom]

Pugs are hard to find in a shelter or if we do there is something wrong with it. So, we decided to go to a breeder.

HONEY- sit... stay... lol... Many of us like certains breeds, and if you want a breed, you have a right to have one... I was devote in shepherds for 20 years, and fell in love with a borzoi the last 19 soon to add a collie because I miss the 3 I had... You have the right to get what you want... YOu have to care for the dog, live with the dog, pamper the dog etc for the dogs lifetime- you should have what you want, and what works for you.... Now- go get that hot chocolate.. I like mine with cinnamon- ... but I am hours from you so maybe I will just have some tea... BTW- as asked before by another pt'r- have you picked out a name yet??? You have a curly- how about mo? ... lol... Or larry... lol... ( come on now smile- admit it-- its funny...) Or since you have a curly how about lazar??? ( straight..)

[junescrater716]

Actually it is going to be Moe I think. lol You're the only one who got that!!!

[borzoimom]

Actually it is going to be Moe I think. lol You're the only one who got that!!!

Thats because we know each other..... lol...

[junescrater716]

coolio!!!!lol

[applesmom]

Good questions borzoimom.

Here are a few more I would have asked. How long have you been breeding; what is your purpose for breeding, how many litters have you had, how do you choose which dogs are breeding quality, what health testing do you do, how do you evaluate the puppies, do you do rescue, will you take the dog back or re-home it if the owner can't keep it, do you insist on limited registration, where are your former brood bitches now, do you go outside for stud service? There are probably a few more, but it's getting late.

[borzoimom]

Good questions borzoimom.

Here are a few more I would have asked. How long have you been breeding; what is your purpose for breeding, how many litters have you had, how do you choose which dogs are breeding quality, what health testing do you do, how do you evaluate the puppies, do you do rescue, will you take the dog back or re-home it if the owner can't keep it, do you insist on limited registration, where are your former brood bitches now, do you go outside for stud service? There are probably a few more, but it's getting late.

Excellent questions, and yes I asked most of those too... (sorry we hi jacked your thread.).. I also ask " for outside stud service do you take puppy back or the stud fee" the response should be, as only breeding to what betters the breed- either- I want a puppy back for so in so reasons * son of the sire etc , or its decided when the pups are born... lol..

[Giselle]

Borzoimom, not trying to be nitpicky, but just wanted to point a few weakpoints in your ideal of a good breeder.

About the whole thing about the breeder not giving a pause when you ask her a question... That's such a subjective aspect. Some people are not phone-talkers. My Peke mentor couldn't care less about phone coversations. She paused periodically and would ask you to repeat questions. It'd be worthy to note that she is a ROM kennel and has produced dozens of champions. For a lie detector, she'd probably fail. However, pausing in a phone conversation means *nothing* about the quality of the breeder and of his/her pups. For all we know, that breeder could have had a list of questions and a typed response for each! I know that for many puppy mills, this is the case.

I was also put off by the breeder's quick response "NONE" and then irritated "Why would you ask that?". To me, that sounds not only defensive but guilty. So do you see how these minute things can have multiple meanings? The fact that she *SAYS* she does (or does not do) certain things doesn't mean she actually does.

It just all seems a bit iffy at the moment =/ As well, you should have asked her why she only offers a one year contract. Crafty Pug breeders know that congenital defects can often pop up after the first year, such as luxating patellas, PRA, HD, nerve degeneration, etc. I'm still not impressed with this breeder, personally. While not everyone can take beautiful pictures, the dam's head seems leaves much to be desired (purely from the pictures on the site).