Protectiveness

[jennifert]

I have an issue with Duncan I think...He is very protective of me and a bit aggressive about it. Too put it mildly I think!! This is an example:

I've been staying at my boyfriend's house for the last week or so while my house gets painted. This morning, we were sleeping and his roommate came in the room all angry about something (the dirty dishes I think...whatever) Anyway, the bed is near the door and Duncan usually sleeps in front of the door. I have told the roommate numerous times NOT to come in the room if we are sleeping or even laying down because Duncan has been aggressive towards him before when he does. In the past Duncan has just put the roommate's hand or arm in his mouth, put himself between me and the "offender" and leaned on him. (Duncan is very big and the roomate is very short 5' even I think) Well this morning, Jerrod (the roommate) came in quickly. louldy and angrily! Duncan jumped up, snarling and growling and bit Jerrod in the arm. The bite punctured the skin. The roommate immediately reached out and punched Duncan in the head. ( I can't put enough of those there to express how angry I was and still am. Duncan let go, backed off. I jumped up, yelling at Jerrod to get out and a few other things I can't repeat.
I know Duncan was just trying to protect me from this vicious monster of a midget but I can't have him biting everyone who comes near me! I thought it was just this roommate that he didnt' like. (I don't either and maybe Duncan sensed that) But I have another example:

Coming into the building about an hour ago, Duncan and I were outside the door looking for my key. A man started to come out the door, stopped when he saw Duncan. I grabbed hold of Duncan's leash tighter and moved out of the way. The man made eye contact with Duncan and when he walked out the door, Duncan started barking at him and lunged at him. He only acts this way when strange people come towards me. A few months ago we were at an outside flea market and this wierd guy started talking to me and Duncan put himself betwen me and the guy, his hair went up on his back but he didn't do anything, just stood there looking at the suspicious stranger. It worked and the stranger went away. (Like I've said before, Duncan looks like a big floppy mop with his long hair and dangling ears but he is VERY LARGE and looks even bigger when he's angry!) I can read the signs now when he is suspicious. I can see the way he stands and the look on his face. It's nice that he is trying to protect me but I can't have him biting people who come near me. He doesn't do it to friends, my boyfriend, my family, just strangers and this roommate. I'm just concerned that it will progress as the instances of this behavior seem to be happening more and more frequently. He's such a good dog. He doesn't like yelling or slamming doors and he gets almost sheepish when that happens. It's like it takes all his courage to protect me when he needs to and he steps in all angry. I can almost feel the anger vibrating off his body sometimes. Whenever we are in mixed company, he stands and or sits betwen me and the person he doesn't know. My mother said that when she was growing up she had a GSD that started this way and eventually got so bad that they had to get rid of her because she wouldn't even let my grandmother near my mom or her brother. I don't want this to happen.... I've very concerned about this. I've been worrying over it all day long..... Any suggestions, advice, similar situations and solutions....Anyone? Carrie? Anyone?

Sorry for being so longwinded and leaning on you guys all the time. I guess I just need more support raising this dog and everyone here has always been able to help so much! My friends here in Syracuse don't have dogs and they don't take me seriously when I mention things such as this. You're all I've got!!

[slleipnir]

Don't know a lot. Here is my sugestions. Do you have a gental leader for him?? If your out on a walk and someone comes up to you and you figure he'll end up barking or whatever. Stop and sit him beside you, and tell him to stay while your talking to the person. Use the gental leader to keep him there. Someone told me that once..don't know if it will work. Would it help maybe it the person made a fist and put their hand out slowly talking gentaly to him so he knows that they won't hurt you?? or would he think its someone trying to grab him?? or whatever lol.. i mean like put the fist below his head so he doesn't think its trying to hit him..sorry i dont knwo a whole lot..goodluck with it!

[KYS]

If your boyfriend doesn't have a lock on his bedroom
door, I would go to the local hardware store and put
one on. This will keep the other roomate out of his room
with-out permission. In my humble opinion Duncan was
protecting you, when this threating person barged in your
room with out any warning. I am surprise
Duncan did not warn first before a bite occurred.

When you grab Duncan's leash tighter you are sending
a negative signal out to him that something is wrong.
It actually makes him more aggressive.
Now that you know Duncan will bite you MUST
protect Duncan, and others from this happening again.
In my state we have no free dog bites.

If you haven't taken Duncan to training classes,
I would consider going, and also train/socialize him
outside of classes on a daily basis.
That does not mean that strangers need to pet
him, only that lunging and growling in public
is not acceptable just because somebody walks past you.

One of my dogs is animal aggressive, and people weary.
He has never bitten anybody but I also am very careful
not to get in a situation where this might happen.
You always need to think one step ahead of any possible
situation before something might happen. : )

[jennifert]

Thanks for the advice. Duncan loves people usually. I dont' know why certain people bother him. He goes to the dog park and plays fine. He's wonderful with my nieces. I am worried about him. New York is a one free bite state but if you read my post a while back, he has already bit the neighbor who stuck his hand in the door. ( I think it's called HELP Dog Bite!) The guy at the doorway may have been my fault because I'd never seen him in the building before and he was a little "scruffy" looking. And he scared me because I looked up and there he was all of a sudden. Duncan probably sensed that. After I posted that, a neighbor girl that Duncan likes came to the door. I opened it and was talking to her and her boyfirend but she didn't come in. I was holding Duncan's collar so he wouldn't go out the door. He barked at her and I told her about the dog bite this morning. Her STUPID boyfriend!! (Actually a local celebrity who is known for his love of dogs and his charity work for them!) was kind of sticking his finger in Duncan's face while we were talking. After a few minutes, Duncan had enough and lunged at him too!! I dont' think he feels well tonight. maybe he's just being cranky today? I hope that hit on the head didn't hurt his ear or anything? His nose is dry and he's just laying around...
Anyway, I'll try your suggestion. We can go to a local walking path here and see what transpires. He always lunges after other dogs, not angrily but he wants to meet them and play. He sniffs them, then does the play posture. He isn't aggressive when I'm not here per my boyfriend. Only when I'm involved. Does he sense something maybe? Anyway, thanks for the input. You have akitas right? They're beautiful dogs but they can be aggressive also can't they? I work for an insurance company and they are on our DO NOT INSURE list. STUPID LIST!!!

[KYS]

I am overly cautious with my dogs and never
put them in a situation that might hurt them
or others.
It is a shame about some insurance companies not
insuring certain breeds. Any dog can bite and my thinking is:
It's not the dog that is bad, but the people that
own them can make them dangerous.

P.S. Our family owned a very protective GSD about 25 yrs.
ago. Best trained dog, but extremely protective.
Training, socializing, and being careful really pays off.

[carrie]

I totally agree with everything KYS has told you. Being aware of the possibility of Duncan reacting in an aggressive way and preparing for it is vital. You can never let your gaurd down on this one.
Training classes are a good idea too, you need to have superb control with a dog like this.
You also need to get dominance over this dog. Duncan is making the decisions here and it he shouldn't feel it is up to him who you are allowed contact with. Control and respect are lacking and the dog will bite again.
This is one of the few situations where real physical correction has a place and it is needed. Along with increasing your control and dominance you must make it clear to Duncan that this behaviour is unacceptable. Any sign of this must be corrected very strongly indeed - the pack leader does not allow lower ranking idividuals to instigate fights. If they did the pack would fall apart. Any low ranking animal attempting to instigate a fight is dealt with quickly and very, VERY strongly.

As for your boyfriends roommate......it is unforgiveable for him to come into someone's bedroom without permission, dog or not!! If he is not socially aware enough to know this you need to lock the door!! Put a very large notice on the door too -"KNOCK and WAIT!"

[jennifert]

Duncan does not seem to be getting any better on this issue and I'm sure it relates to my other issue of my roommate and her dog! Duncan is definitely a dominant dog! He pushes Jack around all the time now. Anyway, that's a different topic...
This past weekend I had some friends over for a get together. Everyone that came in the house said hello to Duncan, patted him on the head or acknowledged him in some fashion. EXCEPT for 2 girls. Both cringed away from him and both of them he tried to bully. He wouldn't let them near me and would guard the doors of the room I was in and not let them in. He never took his eyes off of them the whole time they were there. BUT ONLY THOSE 2!! He was fine with everyone else and would even play a little as long as those 2 didn't move! He didn't go after them with bared teeth and growls, more like a subtle "Keep Away from Mom" stance, a body shove, small little things....I dont' know what to do....I know he needs to stop but I do not know how....I have to go now...I'll post something more descriptive and with my efforts and results as soon as I can so I can get some more advice!! Thanks!!

[Dixieland Dancer]

If you do not know what to do then you need to be taught. Check into an obedience school that deals with aggressive behaviors or hire a behaviorist to teach you. This is not a thing you want to play around with if you want to keep Duncan safe. If he does bite someone and they report it then you may lose him to animal control. I know this is not what you want to hear but you need to learn to be the alpha over Duncan, or else!

I would be curious to hear what you did to correct the situation with the two girls.

[carrie]

I agree with Dixieland Dancer wholeheartedly.

This situation is already out of your control - thank goodness you recognise that and are so willing to rectify it!

I can be of little help to you over the internet on this as without being able to demonstrate the techniques and actually watch you with the dog it is impossible to be effective enough fast enough.

Let's make no mistake - you have the beginings of BIG trouble on your hands.

In your favour you have an open ear and mind, determination and loyalty and love for your dog.

I STRONGLY advise you to seek a behaviourist.
If anyone you contact says that the dog is being over protective of you - you do not want that person to fix your problem.
Find someone who will work on the pack order and help you get the dog to accept his place.
I also believe that you need some form of physical control - keep the dog muzzled when there are other people in the house until you are certain you can control his behaviour and invest in a prong collar and learn how to use it properly.

You CAN overcome these problems but you must have guidance and more help than I can give in this situation over the internet.

Good luck, you CAN do it! Do seek help as soon as you can and please let us know how you get on - I will be thinking of you.

[yorkster]

I know what you are going through.
About 10 yrs. ago I had a GSD who became very protective of me. I absolutely LOVE those dogs- so regal and smart. But.....it was difficult. We finally had to take him to a obedience place where we left him for about 6 weeks. This was a place that specialized in 'aggresive' behavior in dogs, and was quite exspensive.
It worked and was worth it because this was a very special dog to me. However, it was almost impossible for me to keep up on, since I am too affectionate with my animals and had this tendancy to tense up when we were in situations where he could act-up.

It ended up being a constant worry for me when people were around.
What Carrie and KYS say is true. If you are a strong leader, and take the alpha role, it should be okay someday. I know it is difficult to NOT tense up in certain situations, but it helps a lot. I was never very good at it.

I think in my situation, I should have started working with him before things got bad. Don't wait like I did!
Good Luck to you.

[purrley]

Jenn - I agree that you have a time bomb on your hands. It's just a matter of time before Duncan bites the wrong person and then the you know what will hit the fan and you could find yourself in a courtroom facing a tremendous amount of expense and your poor Duncan will be the sufferer of it all. For the sake of Duncan - get him to a professional for the training he needs. Good Luck!!!!!

[jennifert]

Thank you to everyone for your responses. I'm sitting here crying now because I know you are all right and I appreciate the concern, attention and advice you have all contributed. I also feel sad because I feel so close to Duncan and love him very much. It feels like I am betraying him by agreeing to take him to professional training. I know that is silly to feel and is not true but...Anyway, I will call some trainers and behaviorists today. I don't have a lot of money and I know that many of these professionals are expensive. There are some obedience classes that are less expensive but I don't think these would be very helpful. From the sounds of it, he needs one-on-one, hands-on training. I'll give some a call and let you know what I find out.
Thanks again to everyone for all of your help!

I would be curious to hear what you did to correct the situation with the two girls.

I guess I didn't really do anything! He stayed away from them as long as they were sitting still. If I left the room he came with me. If they left the room, he tried to follow so I made him stay with me. I told him NO when he tried to bully the one smaller girl by pushing her.

However, it was almost impossible for me to keep up on, since I am too affectionate with my animals and had this tendancy to tense up when we were in situations where he could act-up.

Yorkster: This is how I feel! The more we encounter situations where I think he MAY act up, the more nervous I become that he will and then the more likely he is to do so. I'm scared to bring him out or bring people over now!

[purrley]

OH JENN - please don't feel like you're betraying Duncan - you're actually doing this for the love of your sweet boy. Duncan obviously loves you very much and because you love him, you want him with you for a very long time. He and you would benefit loads from a little professional training and granted it probably will be quite expensive, but pay off two fold in the long run You'll learn a lot about Duncan and he'll learn a lot about you - it will be fun, I just know it

[sabies]

You're doing a great thing by getting training for Duncan do not be upset about that!!! If you don't train Duncan he will be truly out of control so this is what he needs.

I had an aggressive foster dog for a short time, short because submissive me and submissive Sadie were more his prisoners than caretaker and friend. I found a group in yahoo that dealt specifically with aggressive dogs. You need to go to http://groups.yahoo.com, register with yahoo or sign in if you are registered there, and search for the group "agbeh" (for aggressive behavior). You would then have to go thru a membership process that takes about a day. This is a great group that gives great tips on dealing with your dog, how to understand his behavior and adjust yours. The tips come from trainers and only positive reinforcement recommendations are permitted.

This option is free, and can add to the help a trainer in person gives you. They may even know of a trainer in your area.

Good luck, you can do it, and in the meantime take any preventive measures you can think of such as wearing a muzzle (Duncan that is) and locking the door to keep out the monster midget!

[jennifert]

Sabies, I joined the group! Thank you so much for the support and for recommending the group. I know that ultimately Duncan will be happier because he won't feel so stressed about having to watch out for me all the time...I called some trainers and left messages. I can't get phone calls at work so I left my voice mail number and asked them to let me know when would be a good time to get in touch...I know the one guy charges $100 for an inital consultation so I guess I better start saving up some money for the training sessions...

Thanks for your help and I'll keep everyone posted on what I find out!