Horrible experience @ pet store...

[Bronx'sBower]

I feel completely de-immoralized after visiting our local pet store...won't say any names. Our Bower is extremely vocal and will bark for hours on end...he usually just barks at me because as of right now daddy is the Alpha and I am trying to gain my Alpha status, I think Bower thinks he's my boss. A while ago I remembered someone asking about how to stop their excessive barker. When Bower barks I will let him out, check his food and water, play but sometimes none of these are what he wants. I get frustrated so I started ignoring him but after a solid hour of barking I couldn't stand it any longer. I read on here that the citronella and shock collars were NOT a good idea and my vet agreed with me. We discussed a muzzle called "the husher" and I figured this pet store might have one. I took it up to the counter with his treats and new toothpaste and the girl at the counter ripped me apart! She acted like I was killing my baby! She completely humilated me and told me that I was being inhumane in my decision to put a muzzle on my pup. Then she said snotty:"What would you put a muzzle on a puppy for anyway?" Ohh I could barely contain myself! I said "First off I would rather take advice from my veterinarian than a sales clerk at a pet store! Secondly don't make judgements about me or my puppy-who by the way at 7 months weighs over 60 pounds...." She made me so mad! Who is she to judge? Then she tells me that they carry shock collars and citronella collars and they are "way less inhumane than a muzzle..." (her exact words) How is spraying your dog with citronella or shocking the sh*t out of them more humane than a removable muzzle that would only be used for training purposes? Man I am frustrated! I wanted to call the manager and tell her I thought her employee was wrong in belittling me in that way BUT the manager was agreeing with her. She said bad owners make bad pets not shock collars and that it's a common misconception that when the dog barks and gets shocked and continues barking and getting shocked when startled....I have heard of this happening way too much for her to think it's a misconception....
So am I a bad owner for ALMOST buying a muzzle? He is beginning his obedience classes in September and for that I can't wait. The most humilating part was every single customer in the store heard what she was saying to me and started talking...I don't want people to think I am a bad mom because of her! Not to mention I noticed she was being rude with the customers in front of me-they were buying some flea and tick powder for carpet and the girl told them not to put down the powder but to put the dog in the room with fleas so they jump on him. She said since the dog has flea treatment, the fleas would jump on him and die off. She said fleas have no need or want with humans-they only want dogs or cats....thats funny because if I am in a house that has fleas I am covered in flea bites...but there aren't interested in humans? This girl pissed off the people in front of me but not nearly as much as she did me.....grrrrrr
Sorry for the vent but I had to get it off my chest.....and no I never bought the muzzle (which doesn't cover the whole snout-it is the thickness of a leash, well it looks like a leash for around the mouth)

[RedyreRotties]

I would ask a few questions, if you don't mind?

What breed is this puppy?

How old?

At what age was he removed from his littermates?

What sort of training class have you attended with the puppy?

Where does this puppy live when you are at home?

When you are not at home?

How is he confined when he is outdoors?

How much exercise does he get in a day?

If you can answer these questions, I might be able to give you some helpful hints.

I would not use a muzzle to curtail barking. IMO a collar would be much more effective and humane.

[Dorothy39]

I would simply report this persons conduct to her employer!!!!Period!!!

[Aurie]

I would definately report her as well. It is one thing if you asked for advice. But she has no right to question you especially if it is a product her employer obviously finds acceptable to sell.

[Bronx'sBower]

Hey red (sorry forgot the spelling by the time I got here )....to answer your questions:
What breed is this puppy? When we adopted him they said he was a boxer-mix but as he has grown we feel he has a lot of german shepard in him (I also know both boxers and german shepards are vocal dogs...I think)

How old?
7 almost 8 months old and 60 plus pounds...

At what age was he removed from his littermates?
I can't really say because we rescued him when he was 3 months but the picture from the boxer rescue was from when he was 10 weeks...I think his previous owner got him a couple weeks prior to giving him up.

What sort of training class have you attended with the puppy?
I have done basic training between with my boss who is a vet and knows a bit about training but I know I did a bad thing by not getting him to an actual obedience class soon after getting him...He listened real well from the beginning and wasn't ever very vocal but now he is in his "teen" years and he is extremely vocal and can be aggressive towards me when we play...I do have his beginning obedience classes registered and he will start in early September...I know I know, shame on me for not doing it sooner right?

Where does this puppy live when you are at home?
When I am at home he has most free roam in and out (doggy door) but if he misbehaves or gets too excited he goes in his crate, 9 times out of 10 if he's gotten into something he shouldn't have he puts himself in the crate. He is a very good dog...when HE wants to be.

When you are not at home?
In his kennel-or his "bedroom"...when he gets excited we tell him to go to his room and he goes in the crate and rests until he's better.
How is he confined when he is outdoors?

How much exercise does he get in a day?
He gets a morning walk every morning around 8am, we have a super large yard he plays in with me during the day and then I walk him in the evening after dinner when possible. I understand that pups and dogs pent up energy when not exercised and because I know this he gets A LOT of exercise, it's the only way he won't act obnoxious. He does really well if we have to leave for a few hours and really well when we come home, he doesn't jump or bark. But when company comes over its a totally different story-I dread company. I don't know if he's consciously fighting for my attention or if he's really excited to see people-he only gets crazy when males come over? Coincidence maybe?

I have been trying to do as much training as I can before his classes start but I don't think it's sinking in because I don't think he thinks I am Alpha, ya know? Now when daddy is home he is on his best behavior and only "talks back" to dad occassionally-usually when he wants to dance or shake a paw. How can I gain my control back? It is really frustrating not being the Alpha or more importantly when your dog thinks he's Alpha-I think thats the main problem but would love to hear what you think. Am I a bad pet owner?

[Bronx'sBower]

I wanted to report her but the manager was agreeing with her. The manager said she will only use a shock collar and her dogs "are just fine"...

I said the same thing Aurie (sp? sorry i forget spellings easily)...why are they selling products they don't stand by? Not just the muzzle but the flea powder too. I think I will write the company rather than deal with the manager or employee again...

[i_rescue]

I've never heard of that kind of muzzle, but if your veteranarian says it's better than a shock collar, then you should have got it and just ignored the girl at the register. It pissed me off just reading about it. I can feel your madness!

[Aurie]

Here is a great place to start letting Bower remember he is the dog and you are the person: http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/ask-us/a...-grounded.html

After you have remaster the above, you can move on to here: http://www.mysmartpuppy.com/ask-us/a...-problems.html

Sarah and Brian are fantastic trainers with a great series of books. I highly recommend them. Good luck!

[Ginger's Mom]

I've never heard of that kind of muzzle, but if your veteranarian says it's better than a shock collar, then you should have got it and just ignored the girl at the register. It pissed me off just reading about it. I can feel your madness!

I understand what you mean by she should have bought it anyway, but I would just disagree a little by saying I can understand her not buying it there. That store would not have gotten one penny of my money, and I probably would have been very pointed about leaving all of the items I had on their counter and walking away without taking my wallet out.

[sabies]

You are not a bad dog mom! You have recognized an issue with your dog and have taken steps to deal with it by discussing the situation with a vet and enrolling in classes.

Is there another pet store near you? I would not ever go there again if it's possible to avoid it. How rude of them. Why sell a product they disapprove of? The employee and the manager should be reported but if that's how they want to run their business then they will lose business.

I think you already know the problem - you need to learn how to be alpha. The obedience classes should help. Maybe you can find some good books? Sorry I do not have specific advice on this issue - my dog is the most pathetically submissive creature. I still had to learn to be a little bit of an alpha to get her to eat - submissive dogs expect someone to be alpha. I got good advice in the dog behavior section - feed her after I eat, do not look at her, leave the food for a set time period. Dogs interpret things very different from humans so your behavior without you knowing it says a lot. An expert can help you send the right message.

[Alysser]

Definatley report this nut case! First off, she was telling owners to let their dogs get infested with fleas?? What a idiot! How stupid is this women?!

You're NOT a bad pet owner! Do not listen to a word she says and I would not be the least bit embarrased by her. Shock collars, IMO, are very cruel! What's the point of shocking a dog until it stops? I highly doubt humans would liked to be shocked when the make mistakes. Muzzles are way more humane, and if your vetrinarian suggests this over the stupid shock collar then I say go for it, and do NOT listen to a word this idiot says! Report her immediatly and good luck.

[Bronx'sBower]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and understanding...I am glad to know I am not as bad as the girl (who by the way didn't even look like she was out of high school) suggested. Someone pointed out maybe I could read some books...I have read quite a few mostly by Barbara Woodhouse but a more recent book is called "The Latchkey Dog". The Woodhouse books are a little out dated and I don't even know if some of the methods she talked about are used any longer. As for the last book I mentioned, it was a great book. It was like a guide, the most important part I remembered was that dogs bark for a reason not just to bark-usually (common sense really) but after we have exhausted all remedies he continues to bark. It isn't all the time but mostly when he gets riled up. It taught me and DH how to be the Alphas but it's almost like Bower chose who he thought Alpha should be, daddy. I am going to look at the links posted above and see if they can help me any. It makes no sense to me that when I worked and he went with me to work, he knew I was in charge but ever since I stopped working and staying home with him, he acts like this. Again it isn't all the time....Thanks again for all your support....and in regards to the reporting-I am definately contacting the company itself, it isn't like it's not a well known store (I know its michigan wide, not sure about nationwide), it just happens to be the only pet store in our city.

Also I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion on the best ways to gain control, some don't like shock collars and some do....to each his own I think but for someone to tell me I am "an inhumane person" is absurd. Maybe a shock collar is the best idea, for some, I just don't know if it would help my situation or make it worse.

[RedyreRotties]

You want to be very careful with any muzzle that restricts the opening of the mouth. The danger of heatstroke is very real.

And yes, you are paying now for not going to puppy class early. Better late than never.

Personally, if I had a dog with whom barking was such an issue, I would have the dog surgically debarked and forget about it. Then the dog can bark all it wants without really bothering anyone. It certainly does not bother the DOG. They whisper bark away without a care in the world. They just dn't annoy people any more.

this is one of my all time favorite links about how to be the pack leader for your dog.

http://www.sonic.net/~cdlcruz/GPCC/library/alpha.htm

Dogs do not think like people, and you cannot raise a dog as you would a child. You are likely sending this dog a lot of mixed messages he can't figure out.

[Bronx'sBower]

I just got done reading the My Smart Puppy articles and all I can say is WOW! They covered just about everything! I have learned a few new ideas but for the most part Bower obeys commands. He understands sit but now*the lightbulb flashed*I think I may ask the few people he jumps on to grab a treat before they approach,then tell him to sit and give him the treat when he obeys. This way it will hopefully teach him to sit when company arrives instead of jumping all over them. I could work with him on this but the only problem is there are only like 3 people he jumps on so I will have to practice only when they are here.
Bower is an incredibly smart dog, sometimes a little too smart for his own good , but sometimes I think we are both misguided. I am going to start taking the steps now to remaster the Alpha status....it just stinks because he really isn't a bad dog, just has his moments. But by me saying that I am basically becoming an enabler...

[Bronx'sBower]

I don't know if I would ever get him "de-barked" because 98% of the time he is barking he has a reason; it's just when we start playing or company comes over and he gets excited, thats when he acts up the most. In someways I enjoy his whining...hard to understand I am sure but he does this whine that sort of sounds like E.T. and I find it amuzing. Plus through his whines I can guess what it is he wants, he makes all sorts of noises! When the vet said he was a vocal dog, he wasn't joking. But he also wasn't joking when he said he sounds and acts like an 8 day wound up clock...
I just mostly need to gain leadership, I think I have now come to the conclusion that instead of really stepping in and taking control I have not only possibly made the situation worse but I also took the easy way out.

PS-I forgot to mention that he has been neutered-it was about 3 weeks ago. I thought males settled down afterward? Not him! He was running around crazy last week, running from room to room and almost jumped through the window, he actually jumped on the ledge like he was going to sit but he forgot the ledge is only 4 inches wide-basically half the size of his butt-he quickly fell off and settled down because I put him in his crate....I was amazed he acted that crazy, he never had before and never has since.