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Thread: A Couple of Problems With Our Pack - long post

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    40

    A Couple of Problems With Our Pack - long post

    Hello all - I'm a new user here. I'm loving this board - people seem to treat differing opinions really respectfully, which is wonderful - and challenging to find online!

    Here's our story: My husband and I have two dogs. We adopted Max from Anti-Cruelty Society in Chicago almost three years ago. He's a seven year old, brindle, Yorkie/Poodle mix. He was raised in a family with two kids, then left at the shelter when he was about 4 1/2 because the family couldn't put in the time with him anymore - their loss, our HUGE gain. We love our boy - he was even the ringbearer at our wedding !

    When we first got Max, he was great with people, but terrified of other dogs. He apparently hadn't spent any time with other dogs at all and didn't know how to handle it. So, whenever he saw another dog he'd shake violently and sit down behind us and hide.

    Another problem was his MASSIVE separation anxiety. When we leave the house we'd give him the bedroom for his den (and never leave more than four-five hours at a time) and he's bark his head off and scratch the door like crazy. We'd put him in a crate, which made it even worse, but we kind of had no choice since he'd destroy the doors trying to get out.

    The third problem we had with him was his excessive barking - he barks at everything!

    Well, we brought him to this place for training and socialization - and it worked like a charm. He became less timid, started playing with other dogs, etc. He's still timid, but it's way better. He still had sep. anxiety, but we were able to stop crating him and gave him the run of the bedroom when we left the house, or else we'd daycare him. He never stopped the excessive barking no matter what kind of corrections we used.

    Then, this year, we noticed that he was really depressed and that the only time he'd perk up was either a - after a day at doggie daycare (where we take him when we're both working) or b - after a day playing with our friends' two Jack Russell terriers.

    Last month we brought Max to an adoption fair run by Rover Rescue and he picked out a playmate - Petey, a 2 1/2 year old, black, Poodle/Bedlington Terrier mix. Great dog and the two get along great.

    The problem is this: these two timid dogs have become a real pack - they have overcome all shyness and insecurity and now bark excessively all the time. Additionally, walking them has become a nightmare. Without warning, if someone (and it doesn't happen with everyone so we dont' know what's triggering it) walks down the street, they will bark, growl, tug and lunge at the person. We're horrified and concerned because we have to apologize to everyone we see. Because they're so cute most people forgive it and laugh, but to us it's not funny, it's an increasingly scary behavior.

    They also still bark like crazy when we're home.

    We're trying the sonic collars - the ones that make an annoying noise when the dogs bark, which seems to be helping a little. We're also trying halti collars for the walks - the ones that don't let the dogs pull on you - the dogs hate it, but we're trying.

    Does anyone have any recommendations on this? Any past experiences others have had, etc. are GREATLY appreciated!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    810
    Welcome, Max and Petey and their Mom! It won't be long before our loving PetTalk people have some good ideas posted here to help you and your doggies.

    Good luck with your training endeavors, and congratulations on finding that special something to love in two doggie "rejects". Here at PetTalk, we know just what little miracles can be found in animals that other people just toss away.

    P.S. Start looking for pictures to post of your doggies...we like to know what our new friends look like!
    "Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened" - Anatole France

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    California
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    427
    Looks like us Californians are coming out of the woodwork to greet one of our own! Welcome!

    I wish I had some ideas for you, but (fortunately!) I've never been troubled with a non-stop barker. But I'll bet Carrie will be along shortly to give you excellent advice ...

    The hairy kids' photo album

    Animals share with us the privilege of having a soul.
    -Pythagoras

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm going to try to figure out how to get my pics up here!



    There, I think that did it : )!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Los Angeles, CA
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    Or not - I guess I also need advice on how to post a picture! LOL...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Salisbury Plain, UK
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    Welcome!
    I have a secret urge to visit all the other boards that people say they have problems with and say, "Grow up!"

    Please have a look at my other posts, as you are new, so that you can see that I don't mean to upset or be offensive although I often manage to!

    In one respect you have done totally the right thing - get a friend for the shy timid and constantly barking dog.
    The friend has turned out to be a back up to your dog rather than a cure.

    YOU have to take control and say what the rules are.

    With two dogs and from a distance, especially never getting to see the actual behaviour it is very easy to give you instructions. A different story to try and give you instructions that will work!
    My first thoughts are that this is not a difficult problem, it is easy to put right and you should try a behaviourist near you that can see exactly what is happening.

    The only thing I will say with total conviction is.... - take off the collars! Electronic, sonic or citrus, it doesn't matter - take them off. They are indiscriminate and cause more problems than they solve when in the wrong hands or when left on dogs that have no human supervision. Please do not leave your dogs with these on.

    Two weeks with a decent behaviourist and all your problems will seem like a bad nightmare.

    [ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: carrie ]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,858
    Carrie,
    We do agree 100% on this one!!!!! In hunting I see so many people training their dogs with collars and it infuriates me. Some of these dogs are so beaten down with negative corrections they do what is expected out of fear. I'd rather have a ignorant dog than a fearful one.

    Get rid of the collar - please! Try to find a good dog behaviorist in your area. You won't regret it.

    From your post it sounds like you are willing to do what is necessary to correct this problem. A professional can show you how to work with your dog in a positive way! If you contact a good dog obedience school in your area, they may be able to recommend one for you. Best of luck!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    San Diego, California USA
    Posts
    4,856
    Welcome from another Californian, I think you will really love it here. You can't get better advice than from Carrie and Dixie Land Dancer. They are both very knowledgeable when it comes to dogs. I know your problem, we have two Schnauzers and if you know anything about them I have all your problems wrapped up in two.
    Jackie


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    Wow - you folks are quick AND helpful. One thing I should point out that I didn't clarify - we ONLY use the training collars that make noise - they don't shock, and we ONLY use them when we are there to supervise. We NEVER EVER put them on either dog if we are not there to make sure they are being used properly. I could never imagine someone putting one of these things on and then just leaving. You'd never know what behavior was being corrected! Additionally, we mostly put them on at high-inappropriate-bark times, not during things like playtime, when vocalizing is a natural extension of their playing.

    Still can't quite figure out that darn image thing, but you can see our guys at Max and Petey

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    One thing I left out - I've had a heck of a time trying to find a behaviorist in my area - so if anyone has any recommendations, I'd be grateful. You'd think on the web I could find something - but the L.A. area is painfully lacking!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    San Diego, California USA
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    I just took a quick peek at Max and Petey and they stole my heart. They don't look like a pack of two they look like a pack of love. They are so cute, how could anyone turn these two in with faces like that. They are adorable.
    Jackie


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    40
    Aren't they adorable?? It's the only thing that saves them when, on walks, they bark and growl and try to jump on people. My standard response as we pass the hapless near-victims is, "Sorry - they only THINK they're pit bulls!" That usually elicits a laugh and we can all move on from there.

    Meantime, I've found a doctor named Richard Polsky who is a certified behaviorist in the L.A. area. I'm hoping we'll be able to afford a visit or two with him!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    United States, PA. ,Doylestown
    Posts
    214
    Welcome!!!! You'll love it here, it's chock full a tips,and REALLY nice dog lovers who are so helpul. Im so happy to see that you adopted your Max and your petey. I really don''t know what to say because we have never been in your situation, but with our puppy dog, when ever he barks ,we just take our jar full of pennies, and shake and firmly, with a low, growy, voice, say NO BARK! About the two dogs getting better friends then they are with you, What about taking just taking one dog for a walk, and leave the other...while your on your walk say , with Max, praise him, run with him ,play games ,be fun with him basicly, and then come back take Petey out and do the same. I don't know, it might work
    Grace and my best, friend, my k9 companion, Finny.

    Come see the beautiful dog breed that I love! www.tollerweb.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
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    Toll your dogs are adorable!!!!

    We can't walk them apart - at least not at the moment - because they cry and bark even worse when they are apart. We've created monsters!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Westminster, MA, USA
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    Welcome to Pet Talk! Max and Petey are absolutely precious! I can't beleive those two angel-faces would cause any problems... although I think I see a hint of mischief in their big brown eyes I have never had a problem with my Daisy barking. She is a 2 year old Basset Hound. But Dixieland Dancer and Carrie give great advice, so listen to them! Again, welcome to Pet Talk. You'll love it here!

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