I'm steamed, but I could be wrong

[schteve_d]

Today I was walking my two off-leash in the same place I have for the last three years every day (open bush skidoo, quad and walking trails, well away from any houses, parks, etc.). My dogs sensed something before I saw it and ran up around a corner and suddenly there is screaming! I RUN around to see what's going on and there is a lady there with two big shephards (one white - beautiful dog actually) straining to hold them back. Anyway, I call Bud and Tash back and leash them, the whole time the lady is screaming at me to "turn around, get out of here NOW, my dogs are mean and I can't hold them, I can't control them!" So, I was a little irritated at this point but maintained my composure and told her very politely that alot of people use these trails and while I appreciate that you want to walk your dogs, if you can't hold/control them, you should either not walk them or muzzle them. I was about to suggest a "halty" for some control when she resumed her ranting, only this time adding a few expletives for spice. So, I held my tongue (I'm a sarcastic bastard and it was all I could do!) turned around and took a different path not too far back. Now I'm mildly concerned about walking there if she can't control her "mean" dogs but I have only seen her once in three years, so... I guess I don't really have a point but I don't think I was unreasonable, do you (if you disagree with me on the basis that my dogs were off-leash, I can accept that)?
Here's a pic I took today of where we walk (got a new digital camera!).

[moosmom]

Sorry, but you were wrong. You should've immediately put your dogs on the leash.

[wolfsoul]

I think it depends...if this was on offleash area, then it would be the lady's fault for walking her dogs in a place that she knew would have dogs running around offleash. But if it was a leash only area, then it would be your fault, for having your dogs offleash in the first place..

[schteve_d]

It's not really anything (off-leash or on-leash), it's literally miles and miles of open bush outside of city limits. The nearest town in that direction is 99 km.

[Glacier]

As the owner of an extremely dog aggressive dog, I'll chime in here. I can control Kayleigh just fine, but I can't guarentee that if a loose dog comes running up to her. So yup, I yell at the owner to control their dog. Around here if your dog isn't under voice control, it can't be off leash. If your dog continues to harass Kayleigh, I let the owner know that she's dog aggressive and if they don't control their dog NOW I am dropping her leash. I can not stand it when people respond with "oh, he's friendly, he just wants to say hi". Well, Kayleigh is a 120 pounds of wolf hybrid and she don't want to say hi! Given half a chance she'll do major damage to another dog.

Just to clarify--I would never actually drop the leash and let Kayleigh fight. In all likelihood, she's the dog who end up declared dangerous and be killed. Our local animal control by-law states that any dog involved in a fight can be declared dangerous, seized and euthanized. Kayleigh is not dangerous. She is not dangerous, she's just fussy about her doggy pals. A dog who approaches her appropriately, who doesn't challenge her and who is male, will likely not get her going. She's a doll with people and would never hurt even the smallest child.

I go to great lengths to protect Kayleigh from herself and to protect other dogs from her. I rarely walk her anywhere where we are likely to see other dogs. I recognize that Kayleigh is a special needs dog and I do my uptmost to meet those needs. It's one of my pet peeves when other dog owners can't be bothered to control their pets just because they are a little off the beaten track.

If your dogs were under voice control and immediately returned to you when you called them, then the other woman was in the wrong. If your dogs aren't under voice control, they shouldn't be off leash.

[Cincy'sMom]

Originally posted by Glacier

If your dogs were under voice control and immediately returned to you when you called them, then the other woman was in the wrong. If your dogs aren't under voice control, they shouldn't be off leash.

I agree with this, and from your explaination, it sounds as if your dogs are under voice control.

I also agree, that if the woman can not control her aggressive dogs, she should either walk then in a manner she can control (with one at a time, or buy use of a halti, harness, prong collar,whatever). Okay, in reality, your dogs should not have run up to hers, but, the way she ordered you to turn around,even after your dogs were leashed (if I am reading your account correctly) it sounds as if her dogs at not realible to pass another animal on the path, whether they are leashed or not...and sheneeds to have at least that much control over the dog before she takes them in public.

[KYS]

posted by Glacier:As the owner of an extremely dog aggressive dog, I'll chime in here. >>>>>>>>>

I'll chime in too.
15 years ago, I rarely used
a leash with my dogs. (they were trained on voice command, were not aggressive and back then we did not have
strict leash or bite laws.
"TIMES HAVE CHANGED! (at least in my county)

I now own my first dog aggressive dog.
He is a love with people but...
My 118 pound Rocky (not as big as kayleigh)
is dog aggressive. (fear aggressive in
his case)
He is NEVER off leash.
I dread seeing loose dogs.
I have yelled/said I am sorry at owners to grab their dogs, that
my dog is not dog friendly.

Rocky will give fair warning he is not a happy camper
when he see's a strange dog and usually the owner
will grab their dog fast.
I would be sick if Rocky would hurt or be hurt by
a dog.

So I agree, unless your dogs are reliable on voice command
they should be on a leash.

I will say in my opinion the lady should not be walking 2 big aggressive dogs at the same time.
To easy to loose control even when leashed.
JMHO

[schteve_d]

I pretty much agree with everything said. My dogs are very much under voice control, my one mistake is having let them run up ahead but we don't usually run into anyone, and when we do it is almost always another friendly off-leash dog. The part that irritated me the most was that she was yelling at me to get away quickly as she "could not hold the dogs". That is putting her, me, her dogs and mine in a dangerous situation. The point that I was going to try and get at with her is that with a "halty" or something else, she WOULD be able to hold them very much minimizing the risk (granted, that may not have been the ideal time to discuss it with her!). From what she said (and in all fairness, in the heat of the moment - coulda done without the profanity mind you), she feels unable to hold the dogs even if my dogs had been on a leash, which they were by the time she said that.

[wolflady]

Hi schteve_d and welcome to Pet Talk! You have 2 adorable dogs there
My two cents is if the lady has "mean" dogs and "can't control them", then she shouldn't be out and about until she can control them. After all, the owner should always be in control. Luckily your dogs are well behaved and returned when you called them. She was way out of line with her attitude.

[senorita02]

Well since i have 2 very large aggresive breed dogs, i can say that i would never ever walk them together at the same time, each of my dogs weighs more than i do, and i imagine 2 large dogs together weighs more than most women, she should be walking them seperate and muzzled if they are that aggresive she cannot control them and has to warn others to run.
Also in my opinion i would never walk my dogs off leash, and they are voice controlled and very obedient, but they are still animals and i would never want to be responsible IF anything were to happen at all.
I guess i am saying i think she was wrong, and should go muzzle her dogs if there that aggresive.
Oh, and your dogs are gorgeous by the way!

[cali]

I own a dog frear aggressive dog as well, who by the way I walk off leash at all times. why on earth would I do that? quite simple, Happy attacks when she feels really uncomfortable, well she finds a leash to be a huge cause of stress, and is uncontrollable when she see's another dog and she is on a leash, but off leash, when I see another dog I simply pull to the side, and put her in a sit stay facing away from the other dog, works like a charm, and people take the hint that, just because their dog is friendly does not mean Happy is. out in the type of area you are describing we always let all of our dogs off leash to run, you really think a leashed walk is gonna satisfy them? lol, fat chance! Misty is allowed off leash only in open parks, in those cases I have full voice control over her as well, when people walk by Mistys hackles go up and she starts barking, she wont bite, she wont go more then 10 feet away from me lol and I alwasy tell people she wont bite, she is just warning me, and I call misty and put her in a down stay till they pass, she can do all the barking she wants while in the down stay lol in this case I think you obviously hade control of your dogs seeing as how they came to you when you called them away, but this lady obviously could not handle her dogs and should really find a way to control them.

[zippy-kat]

While I disagree with the lady walking two dogs she (potentially) couldn't control, it would be kinda scary to have two unknown (albeit friendly) dogs run up to you with no owner in site. How was she to know that they are/were friendly and so well-behaved?

God forbid something should escalate and the matter be taken to court, as -no matter how friendly the pups are- it might turn into a case of who was leashed, who wasn't. Regardless that her two are more aggressive, they might find you at fault.

Still, there's no need for the cursing and the rudeness and, if she couldn't handle both dogs, she should've went on two walkies.


~ Beautiful puppers! Welcome to Pet Talk! ~

[Wolffffman]

I agree with the point I think schteve is trying to make....not about leashed or unleashed but simply if you know your dogs are agressive or "mean" you shouldn't be walking them leashed or not if you can't physically control them.....she should at least have had them muzzled.

[KYS]

I think the woman panicked and her yelling only made her dogs more aggressive.
It was not a good situation her walking 2 big aggressive
dogs together.
If I am in a high traffic public
area with people walking their dogs, I
use a gentle leader with a choke on Rocky.
Works wonders.

In some circumstances,
I do not agree with muzzling a dog because
it is dog aggressive.
(People aggressive, yes! )

Even an aggressive leashed dog has
the right to defend itself if attacked
by an off leash dog.

Rocky has been attacked 2 times by off leash dogs.
The first time my arm took the bite for him.
2nd time we were waiting at the corner
to cross the street when a dog came out
of no where and bit Rocky in his mouth.
I kicked the dog/yelled at it.
He jumped over a fence back into it's yard.
(no wonder my poor dog has a bully phobia when it
comes to other dogs)

[Corinna]

I agree with wolflady she should noet walk "mean"dogs there knowing others are there especially if she can not control them. I too walk very occasonally of leash but if I know some one else is there I leash up. I have the benifit of lots of acres in the woods.