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Thread: Has Bush lost his reason?

  1. #1
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    Has Bush lost his reason?

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...329254,00.html

    Has Bush lost his reason?

    The President's apparent mental fragility should give US voters pause for thought at the ballot box

    Andrew Stephen
    Sunday October 17, 2004
    The Observer

    It will, we are confidently told, be the most important American election for generations. In the words last week of Dick Cheney, the voice of what passes for gravitas in the Bush Administration, Americans will have to make 'about as serious a decision as anybody is ever asked to make' when they go to the polls in 17 days' time.

    The prophets of doom, whom Cheney exemplifies, are precisely right about the importance of this election. But the momentous decision awaiting Americans is not whether they return to power a President who is uniquely qualified to protect the US against terrorism, as Cheney et al would have us believe. It is whether they re-elect a man who, it is now clear, has become palpably unstable.

    The evidence has been before our eyes for some time, but only during the course of this election campaign has it crystallised - just in time, possibly, for the 2 November election. The 43rd US President has always had a much-publicised knack for mangled syntax, but now George Bush often searches an agonisingly long time, sometimes in vain, for the right words. His mind simply blanks out at crucial times. He is prone, I am told, to foul-mouthed temper tantrums in the White House. His handlers now rarely allow him to speak an unscripted word in public.

    Indeed, there are now several confusing faces to the US President, and we saw three of them in the live, televised Presidential debates with John Kerry that culminated last Wednesday night in Tempe, Arizona. In the first debate on 30 September, watched by more than 62 million viewers, we saw Bush at his most unattractive: slouching, peevish, pouting, pursing his lips with disdain at what his opponent was saying. But he was unable to marshal any coherent arguments against Kerry and merely spewed out prepared talking points - in what, even his ardent supporters concede, was Bush's worst-ever such performance.

    In the second debate on 8 October in St Louis, Bush could not stay on his stool and leapt up to dispense what were - certainly in contrast to Kerry's cogent recital of statistics and arguments - frequently defensive, shouting rants. I assume that he was told by his handlers not to show displeasure at Kerry's words this time around, but, instead, he revealed his anger by blinking repeatedly.

    The moderator tried to stop him talking at one point (both campaign organisations had agreed the order in which the candidates could speak, with time limits imposed on both), but Bush insisted on riding roughshod over the briefly protesting moderator, Charles Gibson. (What, I wonder, would have happened if Gibson had kept to the rules and insisted that Bush stop talking? We will never know.)

    By the time of the third debate on 13 October, this one witnessed by more than 50 million people, Bush had adopted yet another baffling persona. This time, he was peculiarly flushed, leading a colleague to speculate whether he was on something. He had clearly been told to look positive - that was his main thrust of the evening, with frequent assertions that 'freedom is on the march' - and spent the evening with a creepy, inane grin on his face, as though he was red-faced after a festive Christmas dinner.

    So what is up with the US President, and why is this election so crucial not only for America but for the world? I have been examining videos of his first 1994 debate with Ann Richards, the Governor of Texas, who he was about to supplant, and of his 2000 debates with Al Gore. In his one and only debate with Richards a decade ago, Bush was fluent and disciplined; with Gore, he had lost some of that polish but was still articulate, with frequent invocations of his supposed 'compassionate conservatism'.

    It is thus hard to avoid the conclusion that Bush's cognitive functioning is not, for some reason, what it once was. I am not qualified to say why this is so. It would not be surprising if he was under enormous stress, particularly after the 9/11 atrocities in 2001, and I gather this could explain much, if not everything.

    But I have heard wild speculation in Washington that he is suffering from a neurological disorder, or that the years of alcoholism might finally be taking their toll on his brain.

    I think it unlikely that Bush was wearing a bug so that he could be fed lines in at least one of the debates, but it is indicative of how his capabilities are regarded these days that the suggestion that he needed advice is given credence, as well as passing mentions in the powerful Washington Post and New York Times .

    It does not help that Bush now lives in a positively Nixonian cocoon. He does not read newspapers; he sees television only to watch football; he makes election speeches exclusively at ticket-only events, and his courtiers consciously avoid giving him bad news. When he met John Kerry for their first bout on the debating platform, it was almost a new experience for the President to hear the voice of dissent.

    A senior Republican, experienced and wise in the ways of Washington, told me last Friday that he does not necessarily accept that Bush is unstable, but what is clear, he added, is that he is now manifestly unfit to be President.

    This, too, is a view that is widely felt, but seldom articulated and then only in private, within the Republican as well as Democratic establishments in Washington. Either way, the choice voters make on Tuesday fortnight should be obvious: whether he is unstable or merely unfit to be President - and I would argue that they amount to much the same - he should speedily be turfed out of office.

    But Bush and his handlers like Cheney are driven, if nothing else, by a primal and overriding need to win, to destroy enemies who are blocking their way (shades, again, of Nixon?). Thus the speeches Bush now reads to the Republican faithful at his campaign meetings reflect their intent to demonise and annihilate Kerry's character in the eyes of the electorate; policy statements made by Kerry are wilfully distorted and then endlessly repeated so that, in the end, the distortions gain a credence among the majority who do not follow such matters closely.

    Whether the American electorate choose to see the mounting, disturbing evidence about their President or whether they rally to Cheney's obscenely manipulative appeals for their patriotic support is still up in the air.

    Kerry is a poor candidate who has only recently woken to the need to fight. Bush manages to maintain a peculiarly American, ordinary bloke image - mystifyingly so, given that he is the privileged product of Andover, Yale and Harvard - that still contrasts well, in the eyes of many Americans, with Kerry's patrician manner.

    The polls taken since Wednesday night's debate are infuriatingly contradictory, too. The only consoling thought is that soon we should know the result of that very serious decision the American people have to make on polling day. There are not many occasions when I agree with anything that Dick Cheney says, but this is one of the rare moments when I concur totally with those chilling words.
    ~Kimmy, Zam, Logan, Raptor, Nimrod, Mei, Jasper, Esme, & Lucy Inara
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  2. #2
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    Did Bush even have reason in the first place?

    JUST KIDDING EVERYONE! Please don't be offended! Just a joke!
    Alyson
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    and fosters Snickers, Missy, Magic, Merlin, Maya

  3. #3
    Seriously, the blindness of some voters is scary. It's starting to feel cultish.

    ---


    http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pr...w_9_29_04.html

    Bush Supporters Misread Many of His Foreign Policy Positions

    Kerry Supporters Largely Accurate

    Swing Voters Also Misread Bush, But Not Kerry

    As the nation prepares to watch the presidential candidates debate foreign policy issues, a new PIPA-Knowledge Networks poll finds that Americans who plan to vote for President Bush have many incorrect assumptions about his foreign policy positions. Kerry supporters, on the other hand, are largely accurate in their assessments. The uncommitted also tend to misperceive Bush’s positions, though to a smaller extent than Bush supporters, and to perceive Kerry’s positions correctly. Steven Kull, director of PIPA, comments: “What is striking is that even after nearly four years President Bush’s foreign policy positions are so widely misread, while Senator Kerry, who is relatively new to the public and reputed to be unclear about his positions, is read correctly.”

    Majorities of Bush supporters incorrectly assumed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (84%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (69%), the International Criminal Court (66%), the treaty banning land mines (72%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (51%). They were divided between those who knew that Bush favors building a new missile defense system now (44%) and those who incorrectly believe he wishes to do more research until its capabilities are proven (41%). However, majorities were correct that Bush favors increased defense spending (57%) and wants the US, not the UN, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (70%).

    Kerry supporters were much more accurate in assessing their candidate’s positions on all these issues. Majorities knew that Kerry favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (90%); the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (77%); the International Criminal Court (59%); the land mines treaty (79%); and the Kyoto Treaty on climate change (74%). They also knew that he favors continuing research on missile defense without deploying a system now (68%), and wants the UN, not the US, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (80%). A plurality of 43% was correct that Kerry favors keeping defense spending the same, with 35% assuming he wants to cut it and 18% to expand it.

    Many of the uncommitted (those who say they are not very sure which candidate they will vote for) also misread Bush’s position on most issues, though in most cases this was a plurality, not a majority. The uncommitted incorrectly believed that Bush favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (69%), the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (51%), the International Criminal Court (47% to 31%), the land mines treaty (50%), and the Kyoto treaty on global warming (45% to 37%). Only 35% knew that Bush favors building a new missile defense system now, while 36% incorrectly believed he wishes to do more research until its capabilities are proven, and 22% did not give an answer. Only 41% knew that Bush favors increased defense spending, while 49% incorrectly assumed he wants to keep it the same (29%) or cut it (20%). A plurality of 46% was correct that Bush wants the US, rather than the UN, to take the stronger role in developing Iraq’s new government (37% assumed the UN).

    The uncommitted were much more accurate in assessing Kerry’s positions. Majorities knew that Kerry favors including labor and environmental standards in trade agreements (75%), and the US being part of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (60%), the land mines treaty (57%), and the Kyoto Treaty on global warming (54%), and wants the US, not the UN, to take the lead in developing Iraq’s new government (71%). Pluralities correctly assumed that Kerry favors US participation in the International Criminal Court (49 to 30%) and that he favors doing more research until its effectiveness is proven (46%), with 26% assuming he does not want to build a system at all). Thirty-nine percent correctly assumed that he wants to keep defense spending the same, but 36% assumed that he wants to cut it.

    PIPA selected these questions from those asked in polls by the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations which dealt with issues on which the presidential candidates have taken clear and documented positions.

    Two other issues, on which neither candidate’s position can be definitively established, were also explored. One was in regard to how the US should deal with the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Bush supporters were divided about whether Bush favored taking Israel’s side (43%) or taking neither side (45%), while the uncommitted leaned toward the view that Bush favored taking neither side (47%) more than taking Israel’s side (30%). Kerry voters mostly assumed that Kerry favored taking neither side (68%), as did swing voters (58%).

    On the question of whether, as a general rule, the US should contribute troops to UN peacekeeping operations, Bush supporters assumed that Bush would favor doing so (78%) as did Kerry supporters (58%) and a majority of the uncommitted (60%). Kerry supporters (73%) also assume that he would favor contributing to peacekeeping as do a bare majority of the uncommitted (51%). However, a plurality of Bush supporters (48%) assumes that Kerry would prefer to leave the job to other countries.

    The poll was conducted with a nationwide sample of 959 respondents over September 8-12. The margin of error was plus or minus 3.2-4.0%, depending on whether the question was administered to two-thirds or the entire sample. A report and the questionnaire can be found at www.pipa.org.

    The poll was fielded by Knowledge Networks using its nationwide panel, which is randomly selected from the entire adult population and subsequently provided internet access. For more information about this methodology, go to www.knowledgenetworks.com/ganp.

    Funding for this research was provided by the Rockefeller Brothers Fund.

  4. #4
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    Has Bush lost his reason?
    This is a rhetorical question, I hope.


  5. #5
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    George Bush is not, and never has been, a reasonable man.
    He is a dogmatic, "my way or the highway" kind of person.

    I do think the debates showed in a very dramatic way, how lost
    he becomes when he doesn't have a "script" to read from or
    Dick Cheney to answer questions for him. His performance at
    the first debate was truly embarrassing for a sitting President.
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  6. #6
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    Maybe because things are such a mess now, I'm paying closer attention, but I don't remember Bush being so incompetent and incoherent, when he was Governor of Texas. It's apparent to me now though, that there's something really wrong with him and he won't be getting my vote this time around.

    Par...


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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by ParNone
    Maybe because things are such a mess now, I'm paying closer attention, but I don't remember Bush being so incompetent and incoherent, when he was Governor of Texas.
    He wasn't. He was an excellent Governor of Texas...one of the best we've had in a long time.

    Unfortunately, people change.


  8. #8
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    Originally posted by PJ's Mom
    He wasn't. He was an excellent Governor of Texas...one of the best we've had in a long time.

    Unfortunately, people change.
    Or maybe he is misunderstood???

  9. #9
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    Re: Has Bush lost his reason?

    ...has always had a much-publicised knack for mangled syntax, but now George Bush often searches an agonisingly long time, sometimes in vain, for the right words. His mind simply blanks out at crucial times. He is prone, I am told, to foul-mouthed temper tantrums in the White House. His handlers now rarely allow him to speak an unscripted word in public.
    Sooooo . . . I guess that as long as we have a proficient public speaker in the WhiteHouse, all will be well with the world.

    ...we saw Bush at his most unattractive: slouching, peevish, pouting, pursing his lips with disdain at what his opponent was saying. But he was unable to marshal any coherent arguments against Kerry and merely spewed out prepared talking points - in what, even his ardent supporters concede, was Bush's worst-ever such performance.
    I won't argue with that. First debate was horrible on Bush's part.

    In the second debate on 8 October in St Louis, Bush could not stay on his stool and leapt up to dispense what were - certainly in contrast to Kerry's cogent recital of statistics and arguments - frequently defensive, shouting rants. I assume that he was told by his handlers not to show displeasure at Kerry's words this time around, but, instead, he revealed his anger by blinking repeatedly.
    Seriously, BLINKING REPEATEDLY??? LOLOLOLOL ARE YOU ALL READING THIS, SERIOUSLY?

    The moderator tried to stop him talking at one point...
    I recall J.Kerry being called down to shut up also . . . but that's fine, right?

    . . . leading a colleague to speculate whether he was on something . . . and spent the evening with a creepy, inane grin on his face, as though he was red-faced after a festive Christmas dinner.
    OMG . . . I don't know what to say to that.

    . . . Bush's cognitive functioning is not, for some reason, what it once was. I am not qualified to say why this is so.
    Ah haaaa! Sounds like an expert to me!

    But I have heard wild speculation in Washington that he is suffering from a neurological disorder...
    Pretty WILD if you ask me.

    ... whether he is unstable or merely unfit to be President - and I would argue that they amount to much the same - he should speedily be turfed out of office.
    Sounds like a biased opinion to me!

    OK, after reading this article, I am appalled! I can't believe that you people actually read this article, smiled and nodded in agreement.

    I don't think that Bush supporters are the ones that are acting "cultish".
    -christa


    ~RIP Abby Jan 14, 1995 - July 21, 2005~

  10. #10
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    Both sides have people that are cultish and blind to anything the person they're voting for does wrong. It's the same on both sides. It doesn't make people stupid for believing in someone, even if you don't believe in the same.


    Thanks, Dogz!

    "...when does sometimes turn into all the time...." Joe Pisapia

    "We all start off as strangers, it's where we end up that counts." Jennifer Beals, Four Rooms

    "And I find it kind of funny...I find it kind of sad...The dreams in which I’m dying Are the best I’ve ever had" Tears for Fears, Mad World

    "The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that's wrong with the world" Dr Paul Farmer

  11. #11
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    I know . . . Just got a little upset when I started reading this thread.

    I support Bush.

    I know he's made mistakes.

    I know he slouches.

    I know he's not a great speaker.

    I know that I'm voting based on my morals and beliefs, and that HE matches up best with my convictions.

    But for Kerry supporters . . . Kerry does no wrong. Don't think I've ever heard a Kerry supporter on her admit to his wrong doings, and trust me, he has his downfalls just like everyone else.



    Just my opinion of course.
    -christa


    ~RIP Abby Jan 14, 1995 - July 21, 2005~

  12. #12
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    I just think stereotyping is evil, regardless of what's being discussed, whether it be pit bulls or voters. But, that's just my opinion.


    Thanks, Dogz!

    "...when does sometimes turn into all the time...." Joe Pisapia

    "We all start off as strangers, it's where we end up that counts." Jennifer Beals, Four Rooms

    "And I find it kind of funny...I find it kind of sad...The dreams in which I’m dying Are the best I’ve ever had" Tears for Fears, Mad World

    "The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that's wrong with the world" Dr Paul Farmer

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by christa
    I know . . . Just got a little upset when I started reading this thread.

    I support Bush.

    I know he's made mistakes.

    I know he slouches.

    I know he's not a great speaker.

    I know that I'm voting based on my morals and beliefs, and that HE matches up best with my convictions.

    But for Kerry supporters . . . Kerry does no wrong. Don't think I've ever heard a Kerry supporter on her admit to his wrong doings, and trust me, he has his downfalls just like everyone else.



    Just my opinion of course.
    I agree with you!

    AND at least Bush never called Kerry "brain dead" like Kerry called him. I don't want a president who can't make up his mind and stick with a decision OR can't refrain from name calling! Kerry should go back to kindergarten.

    Just my opinion also AND I'm stickin' to it!
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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  14. #14
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    **hugs** christa and MOFF, I was really beginning to think that I was the only republican around here! I never usually post on political threads, but it seems like the theme is always the same. Republicans are always slammed, which is why I don't get involved in stuff like this. People on our radio stations out here are slamming republicans, people on TV (TV shows, news, just media in general puts negative slants on republicans)....it's like everyone! I was flipping through all of our local radio stations (both FM and AM) and not one of them had any republican support. Seems like I am slammed in the face with democratic support all the time.

    I agree, I don't think he's perfect, but who is? Personally, when it comes to politics...it just boils down to who is the lesser of two evils!

    I agree with guster girl, it is the same on both sides, whatever party you belong to.

    I always think how ironic it is that we (the general public and the government...etc) want to help other countries and want world peace, but for some reason can't get along with our oun country men...

  15. #15
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    Here are just a couple quotes from a couple of Kerry supporters that posted in the dog house. If you wanna know who said them, just go back and read the presidential debates thread. I'm not even sure yet who I'm voting for, so, I'm not a supporter, yet, of either candidate. I just think all the crap that gets thrown back and forth between Bush supporters and Kerry supporters could be done without anyone calling anyone else names or accusing anyone of being cultish or whatever. It's the main reason I avoid political discussions. But, I'm just trying to prove a point here in that you can't say that all Kerry supporters think that Kerry can do no wrong. And, I don't have time to look up more, but, I know that I've read more of these types of things being said about Kerry from Kerry supporters.

    "That being said, I know its a package deal. There ARE things I definitely disagree with Kerry on...."

    "I'm sure a lot of stuff is coming out of Kerry's mouth that is just psycho babble to win him the election too."


    Thanks, Dogz!

    "...when does sometimes turn into all the time...." Joe Pisapia

    "We all start off as strangers, it's where we end up that counts." Jennifer Beals, Four Rooms

    "And I find it kind of funny...I find it kind of sad...The dreams in which I’m dying Are the best I’ve ever had" Tears for Fears, Mad World

    "The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that's wrong with the world" Dr Paul Farmer

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