merging dog families

[tlsorgi]

I have a 5 year old female border collie. I've been dating a wonderful guy for several months who has a 4 year old dane mix. Both of our dogs are completely friendly to humans, are impeccably trained and have made wonderful pets. However, as we spend more and more time at his house, we're having to deal with the occasional dog spats. The border collie is the (self-declared) alpha. She is protective of me and the occasional fight usually breaks out when they are both with me in a small space such as a closet, bathroom, or hallway. The fighting doesn't occur all the time, but does average once a day. And by fighting, I mean that within the past 4 months, there's been a lot of loud violent sounds with very minimal contact (the most damage done was one superficial cut below the eye of the dane which required no medical treatment.) When a fight does occur, it ceases instantly with a firm "no" from either of us, lasting less than 3 seconds. I have no fear that these fights will result in serious injury to neither dogs nor humans. When I am not around, they even play, as I have secretly observed when they think no one is watching. They seem to do okay outside, but since my dog has been raised on the couch and in my bed, she gets more distraught and upset after being locked outside. And, to her credit, dividing my already minimal time between a man and another dog is really testing her jealousy. The problem dog is the border collie, I admit that. However, I am foreseeing some relationship problems in the near future due to my dogs bullying. Others that I've talked to say "that's completely normal, they just need to establish their pecking order." However, I'm not sure that my boyfriend and his dog view this as such a 'normal' deal. No one seems to be able to offer any handling tips or recommendations for how to solve this. All internet articles I have read seem to be geared toward SERIOUS, and violent dog aggression. I understand that it's not fair for his dog to have another dog come in THEIR home and feel threatened, but I've always lived with either my family or other roommates and the occasional dog fight or even a scratch is just a normal part of having a pseudo-dog pack. Should I just expect him to understand? I'm also wondering how the pecking order will be established since we each still have our own houses. It seems that each time we go over there, they have to start the establishment all over again. If anyone has any suggestions on how to handle this 'therapeutically' for all of us, it would be greatly appreciated.

[clara4457]

First of all - Welcome to Pet Talk. Mixing doggie households is tricky and should be done with care. A question - is the dane male or female? Are the spats coming mostly in a small space such as doors, hallways, etc? How about their play behavior? Is one dog body slamming another? putting their chin on the others shoulder area? Are you getting any stress signals from one dog or another? There are a great many variables here that kind of make it hard to really offer any suggestions in "cyberspace".

I recently attended the Association for Pet Dog Trainers conference in Denver and had the pleasure to listen to Trish King's seminar "Living with Multiple Dogs". and she gave some general guidelines for a multi-dog household:

1. The owner must understand what motivates each dog and be prepared to give each what he or she wants.

2. Dogs must trust owner implicitly and know what to expect from the owner.

3. Dogs must respect the owner - obedience training is mandatory.

4. Structure must be solid and predictable.

She strongly recommends things like group relaxation exercises, training a cut off signal for interaction, training a zen down and individual training time with each dog.

I would strongly recommend her book "Living with Multiple Dogs", but it is out of print and might be hard to find. She has a new book called "Parenting Your Dog" that also has a section on multi-dog households. Another good resource is Patricia McConnells "Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy Your Multi-Dog Household". You can get most of these books from: http://www.dogwise.com. You can also purchase videos of seminars from http://www.tawzerdogvideos.com I am a very visual person and like to have the videos as well as the books.

Good luck - it will take some effort and time, but it can be successful if you are both willing to work on it.

Clara

[tlsorgi]

Thanks for responding! The book that is out of print sounds quite ideal and I'm getting ready to try to find it. As for your questions, the dane mix is a quite passive and laid back male. The border collie is basically the opposite. She's intense, driven, and very, very serious (like most border collies.) When they do secretly play, the female will do some dominant playing (such as putting her nose or leg over the shoulders of the dane) but mostly it's some quick lunges, running, and flinching. There's no tackling going on. And yes, the fights do only occur in small spaces. As for your response:
1: the dogs needs seem clear to me. The dane is a 'ham' and wants to be petted and spend Q.T. with his daddy. The border collie is more demanding. She wants 100% of my attention whether it be playing games, or laying on the couch, or just staring at each other. I'm not sure she realizes that she's a dog!
2: Both dogs are very respectful to their owners, which is why the fights cease with only a minor verbal cue from one of us. We do not have any problems with dogs being respectful. My dog will occasionally show her teeth to the other dog, but she doesn't seem to give the lengthy growl warning signal that a lot of dogs do, and I feel that if she did that, then it would signal the dane to stay away via a more appropriate form of expression. If she would growl first, then it would even give me enough notice to attempt to change the situation before it broke out into a noisy ugly deal.
3: Both dogs are very obedient and respond to both verbal commands and hand signals. If we are eating dinner or watching a movie, we can tell both of them to lie down and there'll be no problems. However, only so much of the day can be spent with both dogs commanded to lay down. It's the familial interaction that causes problems.

I'm not sure what was meant by a 'zen down.'

My only other thoughts on it are that it doesn't seem to be the dane's fault AT ALL. Even training or working with him almost seems a waste of time. He gets along with other dogs and doesn't invade her space in a way that would be excessive or antagonistic. I hate to admit it, but it really is her deal. I just don't know how to adress it, without making the male dog vulnerable. She was well socialized as a puppy, and we've lived in house-holds with up to 5 other dogs. She has never sought out trouble, she just wants them to stay away from her and her posessions. Like I said before, if these were both my dogs, I would just look at it like two children having an occasional disagreement. However, that's definitely not how the other half of this relationship sees it, and I'd like for them to feel as comfortable as possible.
Thanks for responding, I'm definitely going to check out the book. Thanks, Tara

[clara4457]

Honestly, it sounds like you are on the right track. As far as the Dane, continued training is not for disciple per se - but will help build his confidence and make him more secure in your leadership. Putting them both on a program of NILIF (Nothing in Life is Free) would be helpful. Management will also be important. I have two dogs in my house that get along 99.9% of the time with the occasional spat. As a result I keep them seperated by baby gates when I am not home and watch them carefully when they are together. I have also learned doggie signals - if one is looking at the other one out of the corner of their eye, it is a sign that she is about to aggress. Closing the mouth is another signal of that. Shifting their center of gravity forward can be another sign. The placement of the jaw commissure (the place where the mouth meets to form the upper and lower mouth) - back could mean fear (sort of frown like) and forward could mean assertiveness.

There is some validity in allowing them to work out their sturcture in the household, but my fear is that most people do not read dog body language well enough before it develops into major escalation. I know when I first got my Penny Lane and she and Leo got into their first fight - I hired a behaviorist to help me, even though I have taught dog obedience classes. Since then I have read a great deal about body language, attended seminars, watched video and I am still caught unawares on occasion and am continuing to learn. If you cannot find Trish King's book you can easily find Patricia McConnells. "Feeling Outnumbered...". She is one of the leading authorities of dog behavior and was Trish King's mentor.

Again - it sounds like you are on the right track, the fact that you can break up interaction with a word is terrific. I have also found that sometimes we humans are the trigger to dog-dog aggression. Dog's read our body language so much better than we do and if we are tense or fearful - they feed off that.

Good Luck and PM me if you want to discuss further.

Clara