"Toy" Schnauzers

[lizzielou742]

Hey everyone, I was going to post this under "Dog Breeds" but I don't think many people check there that often....

So my aunt is thinking about breeding "Toy" Schnauzers, german schnauzers weighing from 3-8 lbs, under 10" tall. I think they're so cute and I would love to get one from her!! What I have read on the internet is that there is no such recognized breed as a Toy Schnauzer, they are simply mini schnauzers under 10" tall. I am also wondering about little bits of information I have read on genetic defects/birth defects that can come with breeding a dog so small. Does anyone have any advice for me?

Here's some info on the "toy" schnauzer:

Here is a full grown toy schnauzer - 3 years old, 3.5 lbs.

This dog is 3 lbs., 7 inches.

http://www.toyschnauzer.com/toy.htm
You may ask, "How did the toy schnauzer come about?"

Many Schnauzer enthusiasts claim that more recently, unscrupulous breeders have introduced toy breeds into the schnauzer lines in order to bring down the size of the Miniature Schnauzer.

This is far from the truth.

Actually, the original American "CORRECT" size for the miniature schnauzer was 10 to 12 inches, which meant that the dogs were about 8-12 lbs. Maximum. That standard of perfection has been changed through the years, raised, raised, and raised again, so that the bigger dogs could win.......to its current 12-14" dogs weighing 16-22 lbs.

During the late 1800’s and early 1900’s when the Miniature Schnauzer breed was being established, the Standard Schnauzer was bred to the Affenpinscher, the Fox Terrier, and the Poodle, to bring down the size of the Standard Schnauzer.

These smaller breeds created a gene pool for a variety of size and color to surface from time to time.

By taking the small size minis and breeding back to the small size minis, breeders have reinforced the gene pool that brought the Toy Schnauzer about. These tiny bundles of joy are not dwarfs or defects in the breed as some would have you believe. They are just plain and simply a smaller size of the miniature schnauzer.

Schnauzer lovers, please enlighten me! This is the first I have heard of such a variety of schnauzer. Thanks!

[cloverfdx]

There are 3 sizes, Miniture, Standard and Giant nothing more nothing less.


Just a thought maybe your Aunty might want to take a trip to the local animal shelter and visit with all of the dogs that are about to be euthanised because there are too many dogs not enough homes. Leave it too the people who want to better the breed not shrink it. JMO.

[lizzielou742]

Um, OK that was pretty rude. You don't know anything about my aunt so I'd suggest you keep your comments to yourself about her.

[cloverfdx]

You wanted opinions, you got them.

[micki76]

WW

I think she asked for advice.

[Samantha Puppy]

Originally posted by lizzielou742
Um, OK that was pretty rude. You don't know anything about my aunt so I'd suggest you keep your comments to yourself about her.

I don't think she said anything about your aunt other than to maybe ask her to check out the shelter. The nasty comment at the end was geared towards breeders, not your aunt. I may be wrong, but that's the way I took it.

Jaime

Edit: I'm an idiot, didn't read all the original post. Sorry for sticking my nose where it didn't belong.

[cloverfdx]

Yes Micki and i gave it (In a way).

Please lizzielou742, tell us about your Aunt and her exprience with breeding dogs and why she would like to breed these "Toy" Schnauzers. (I am being serious i would like to know)

[lizzielou742]

Originally posted by micki76
WW

I think she asked for advice.

Exactly. I was asking about the potential drawbacks of breeding a dog to be small. If you don't agree with that, then say so, and give me a reason why. I'm concerned about it myself and would like to know more information.

My aunt has a schnauzer now, she's 14 and is ailing from arthritis. I think she saw some 'toy' schnauzers at the Ky. State Fair last week and was thinking (note I said thinking) about looking into breeding/raising a few. They were such a big hit at the fair, apparently they were all spoken for. She's never bred dogs before, just horses. That is why I was coming here, to ask for advice for me, and for her. Not to get blasted with a rude comment within 5 minutes from someone who doesn't even take the time to try and ask questions and learn more about the situation.

[cloverfdx]

Apparently it's OK for only certain special people to breed/raise dogs.

Yes people who know the breed and have exprience in genetics etc, people who are doing it to breed out problems and want to improve a breed.

There is more to breeding than seeing a breed you like and that looks "Popular" at a fair. It take years of planning and $1000s of dollars, with testing and stud fee's and any emergency that pops up along the way.

[micki76]

Originally posted by cloverfdx
Yes people who know the breed and have exprience in genetics etc, people who are doing it to breed out problems and want to improve a breed.

There is more to breeding than seeing a breed you like and that looks "Popular" at a fair. It take years of planning and $1000s of dollars, with testing and stud fee's and any emergency that pops up along the way.

This I agree with 100%.

[GoldenRetrLuver]

Originally posted by cloverfdx
Yes people who know the breed and have exprience in genetics etc, people who are doing it to breed out problems and want to improve a breed.

There is more to breeding than seeing a breed you like and that looks "Popular" at a fair. It take years of planning and $1000s of dollars, with testing and stud fee's and any emergency that pops up along the way.

I completely agree 100% as well.

Like Rhiannon said, there are three "types" of Schnauzers. Giant, Standard, and Miniature. There is no recognized breed called a "toy schnauzer". Dogs that are called "toy schnauzers" are just merely smaller, undersized versions of the Miniature Schnauzer.

[lizzielou742]

OK, so if she wanted to start looking into breeding Miniature Schnauzers, where should she start? Please don't think my aunt is an irresponsible person. She's been breeding horses for years and is considering looking into breeding schnauzers. Anyone have any helpful advice for me to give her? Thanks.

[lute]

lizzielou742,
i don't think it's WRONG if your aunt wants to breed mini schnauzers. WHY she breed is another thing. if she wants to breed for money or because she loves her schnauzer so much she thinks there should be more of her is a bad thing. because the odds of her having a puppy EXACTLY like her is very slim. i think it's ok to breed as long as she breeds for the better of the breed. one of the most important things is to make sure the breed she wants to breed has a BREED STANDARD. that means NO "TOY" SCHNAUZERS! they cannot be shown and to roduce i good litter you need something to go by. mini schnauzers are great. it's my mom's favorite breed.

to start breeding i would check the web for responsible breeders in your area. talk to them about the expenses and emotional trials you will have with breeding. ask if you can tag along and experience a birth and maybe he/she will share the same love for the breed as your aunt does and she will let you use a stud or know of a good one.

good luck.


hope this helps.

[lizzielou742]

Thank you, lute. I don't know why exactly she wants to start breeding them. I was, in fact, a bit shocked when she said she wanted to. I suggested she maybe foster a few and see how she liked it. She lives on a farm and helps my cousin breed horses, so it's not like she'd be doing it out of an apartment or something...but I still wanted to get some information together to send her about the pros/cons of breeding.

I love Miniature Schnauzers too. My mom has one, too, a former stud dog that she adopted from a breeder. He was 'retired' at the age of four and everyone kept picking the puppies over him, but my mom just fell in love with him. You can see pictures of Harley in this thread. When I move out of my apartment and get a place with a yard, I hope to adopt a Mini Schnauzer too.



Anyone else have an idea on what I should tell my aunt? What exactly are the genetic consequences of breeding a "toy" dog? I mean, do these dogs have health problems because they're not following a breed standard? I don't have any experience with this type of stuff so any help/advice would be greatly appreciated. Just please don't make me feel attacked! I do love animals, and I would like to see my aunt follow a breed standard in order to further the breed if she does choose to start breeding...but I don't know what to tell her. Thanks.

[lute]

when you say "toy breeds with no standard" i personally think that even considering breeding a breed with no standard is not responsible. your aunt can do whatever she wants,but i HIGHLY suggest she breed with a breed standard or there's no way to find out if she has good breeding stock.