Issuing an open challenge to pro- declawers

[PayItForward]

I still can't believe that people still do this to their cats, when I can't find one benefit to the cat.

So in case I'm just missing the point, I am issuing an open challenge, to see if anyone can put forward an logic reason to declaw a cat.

The advantage should be for the cat not the owner but I'll be happy to read any suggestions.

I have posted a few common ones, which I think are not good reasons but feel free to add to my comments, if I have missed anything.

PS. Noone has to register or log in to use this section, all comments can be posted by guests.

So if you can think of an advantage please follow this link and post it and lets see if any new ideas arise
http://www.piftails.com/forum/upload...splay.php?f=16

Feel free to post this challenge anywhere else, both pro and anti-sites, I want to know why declawing is only popular in the USA.

[CatMama78]

I'm with you. I see no good reason to declaw, especially for the cats benefit. I understand some don't realize what declawing does to a cat and may make the choice in error or in misinformation, but I would hope your vet tells you 'no' in this day and age. When we first took our babies to the vet, he brought up that he would never recommend declawing, and I voiced that we weren't even thinking about it.....I know owners think it's better for the owner and their belongings, but my argument is if the cats possible clawing of the furniture or carpet bothers you, maybe you shouldn't have a cat. Dogs naturally tear things up with their teeth (how many shoes have you had to throw away cause of puppy chew?), we don't remove those do we?! No, we train them, just as cat can be trained with love and positive reinforcement (ok and a squirt bottle) not to claw certain things. And I can't buy the argument that the cat may accidentally hurt you or your children. Keep their nails trimmed! When the claw is dull, even just snipping the tips of the nail off works, it does no harm. If malicious clawing is occurring, please find and treat the real root of the problem.....don't resort to tearing their knuckles out.

[NKBurlington]

As an owner of cats with claws, I now have seen the light.

For years, my parents would have cats declawed. I didn't know any better and had no idea what it really meant to the cat to miss a digit on his toes.

DH and I declawed our beloved Jessie (may she RIP) and I have regretted it ever since. She was never the same again. She always favoured both her front paws and she walked funny. She ended up getting cancer in her toe and we had to put her down. Whether or not the cancer was caused by the declawing, I don't know but suffice to say, we will NEVER declaw a cat again.

Now that we have adopted two new boys, they have claws and have been trained (very well) by their previous owners to use the posts. We have two of them in the house and they do use them. They do not scratch us or our guests and in fact, are very gentle boys.

I don't think we'll ever do it again. it's heartbreaking.

[sirrahbed]

Jenny - I really do not think anyone is "pro-declaw". It is more a matter of not being informed and those who do declaw - do so believing they are doing what is best for everyone, or just do not think. I don't even think it is necessarily a selfish "protect my furniture or my skin" thing. My cats do major damage with their BACK claws. It is just part of having a cat. I don't have any furniture more precious than my cats!! I also have plenty of scars from back claws. Declawing a cat, in my experience - has always been done along with neutering of indoor cats as a means of "pampering" - expensive and never giving enough thought that it might be harmful. The answer is information.

That said - it never helps to make anyone feel guilty AFTER the declaw is already done. THAT is meanspirited and does more harm than good IMO. It does nothing to change attitudes. My cats are all declawed, although I only had it done myself once - to Emily and Eliot - the others all came to me already declawed. YES I feel awful now that it is over and will not get another done! Sometimes I look at their little paws and want to cry!!

So, I think your work to bring information can be, and is, very helpful as long as it is not done with an attitude of superiority - but with an attitude that wants to educate and protect the cats. Those who have already declawed are not bad or irresponsible owners. They just have not been informed and reached the decision in their minds to a degree that takes time. I believe a gentle but continual message is the best way to go.

The arguments given at your site - well I doubt they can be challenged with any logical responses. It will be interesting to see - because, as I said above - I don't really think anyone can be truly "pro-declaw", once they know what declaw involves. There are surely a few isolated cases where declaw *does* save the life of a cat - and these people do not have to defend what they do if they honestly make the decision believing that it saves the cat from being killed. Example: hubby says you can only keep this cat if you have him declawed! Well, then I suppose I would have him declawed so that I could keep him! First, I would try everything I could to stop the behaviors that upset hubby, but if nothing made hubby relent and the mandate continued...I would not choose divorce! Maybe the kitty keeps scratching my children?? But I would surely be very sad and suffer with my kitty, but I would not give my kitty away!!! I guess that also depend on my attachmnet to the cat. I suppose I should put his welfare first, but if he was already part of my family and I could not give him up, then YES I would declaw rather than lose him Maybe selfish but my decision. I hope I never have to make such a decision!!!

[PayItForward]

This is why I put up the challenge, as I want to know why declawing happens today in America.

I don't believe the answer IS any of the suggestions I raised, they can't be as those are so easily overcome.

There must be something I am missing that explains why the USA population still thinks this operation is good.

There are many pro-declawing site on the web but not one explains why they are pro, so I will be writing to those sites in turn, I hope that as opinions can be raised without names that I can find the reasons I am looking for.

I can only start to educate people against declawing, if I actually understand why it is perceived as a good reason in the first place.

Else I can NEVER help any cats

PS. Debbie {{{hugs}}}, You know that how I feel but I agree with you, that noone who didn't understand what declawing was when they did it, should be made to feel guilty...ever.

I am upset at those who know what declawing IS and still do it , with out trying alternatives training measures first

[sirrahbed]

We have an appointment coming up for annual checks for our kitties. As much as I love my vet - he is the one who urged me to have the kittens declawed as soon as possible - at the same time as their neutering "to save money". He told me he always declaws his own cats - has all FOUR paws done which really shocked me as I had never heard of that!! I told him no - front only. At least I feel a *teeny* bit good about that. My feeling at the time was they needed back claws at least for defense and climbing, etc. His technician also told me that they always encourage declawing. Sooooo...hopefully I can gather the nerve to ask him WHY?? do you encourage declaw??? I want to tell him what I have learned and ask him how this benefits the cat or is it all to benefit the owner (and his bank account) though of course I do not want to be rude - but I hope I can phrase this in a way to get his opinion. He is such a caring and loving man - so I hate to think badly of him - he has done so much for free to help me! But I want to hear his opinion. He KNOWS what he is doing! And the staff technicians - many are catlovers! I wonder if they have to see little toes on trays?? It would be so easy to distribute leaflets to new kitten owners with suggestions about scratching posts, softpaws, etc. That would really be so helpful!! If he wanted, he could sell the Softpaws and scratching posts of good quality if it is a matter of profit and of course he is a business!!

BTW - Jenny - I have NOT seen a Pro-declaw website - could you give me the link/links so that I can look? All I find are anti-declaw sites in google. I would be interested to read the arguments myself!!

[CatMama78]

Oh, I do agree that after the fact, there is no need to make someone feel guilty for declawing as it's mostly just a matter of misinformation or plain not knowing how declawing works, and that's not a person's fault.....esp. Here in America where it's such a common practice......I hope I didn't sound like all who have declawed are heartless, not be any means, and each case is different! As with lots of matters people just continue what they are taught. So we educate others and vets seem to be educating others these days too.

But I do think there are some cat owners out there who do know the consequences and what the act does, but still choose to declaw for one reason or another (not health related), but for kind of selfish reasons and that's when I think those people are not ready for a cat and the trials and tribulations that come with raising and caring for a cat. I would never want to berate anyone, but I am a little passionate about declawing, or rather not declawing. I guess the way I see it is we are the privileged ones to have these beings share their lives with us. It's our responsibility to do what's best for them. I just love them so!

[Logan]

The only reason that I can come up with for ever choosing to declaw a cat is pure selfishness, wanting the cat, but also wanting to avoid any problems with furniture and carpet. I think many people, innocently, make this choice because it is available in the US. I have never chosen to declaw a cat, but I have also never chosen to have an indoor only cat (which is another hot topic for another day). My sister, a real cat lover, has always declawed her cats, regardless of my ranting about the cruelty of it. I have friends that have declawed cats, and even my stepchildren have 5 cats in their mother's home, all declawed. None of them have ever reported personality problems with the cats, but God forbid that one of those cats ever gets outdoors by accident. I have found that my Butter and Mimi's teeth are just as lethal as their claws, and I'm not about to have their teeth pulled for my convenience!!! I have the scars to prove it too!!!

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by sirrahbed

BTW - Jenny - I have NOT seen a Pro-declaw website - could you give me the link/links so that I can look? All I find are anti-declaw sites in google. I would be interested to read the arguments myself!!

Well, here are a couple, I intend to collect an complete list at some point.... But there is NO fact based arguments in this list, hence my confusion.

http://www.geocities.com/declawing/

http://www.angelfire.com/hero/declawok/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/R...51/declaw.html

http://www.spayneuter.net/to_declaw_or_not.htm

http://lagunahillsanimalhospital.com...declawing.html

PS. Debbie, If you dare ask your vet, how much of his vets income results from declawing operations ??
I would be very interested if 50% of income is right or completely out

[sirrahbed]

Originally posted by PayItForward
PS. Debbie, If you dare ask your vet, how much of his vets income results from declawing operations ??
I would be very interested if 50% of income is right or completely out

I will try! I am not very vocal but I AM very curious and I AM going to ask him some questions.

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by sirrahbed
I will try! I am not very vocal but I AM very curious and I AM going to ask him some questions.

Maybe if we can prove he'll make more money selling soft paws, he might be convinced.

If you need leaflets I'll help !!! I promise to be nice

[Randi]

I'm very much against declawing cats and I'm happy that it's not allowed in Denmark - not that I think many catowners here would have it done!

Before I joined PT, I didn't know what it entailed. Now that I know, I'm even more against it!! I too wonder why so many Americans have it done - I hope it's out of ignorance! Of course, most will probably say that it's for the protection of their furniture etc., but as many of you have pointed out, there are better ways to deal with that!

PIF, I'm glad you're bringing this up the way you do, I have been thinking about how to go about educating people about it without causing an uproar. Distributing material about what it entails would most likely keep many from having it done. If not, they should not have a cat in their home!

It's just so difficult with vets, who are the ones earning the money on it. Still, in the first place, you'd think that the reason they did become a vet, was to help animals, not make them suffer, to fullfill an uneducated persons wish.

On another note - probably suited for another thread, I think that cats are happier with an indoor/outdoor life, provided that the area around them is quiet (no traffic, no dangerous animals around, and that other cats in the area have been neutered/spayed and had their shots).

I'm aware that many Americans don't share this opinion.

[Amber]

I'm never going to de-claw my cats again. My cat, Maggie is de-clawed. I didn't want her to be de-clawed because I read on the net what it really does. But since i still live under my parents roof, I had too. My parents didn't want everything scratched up. But don't think they are animal haters because the de-clawed her. They don't know, and don't understand what I say about it. They love maggie. and we are never doing it again.
Im very against it now.

[CatMama78]

Originally posted by Randi

On another note - probably suited for another thread, I think that cats are happier with an indoor/outdoor life, provided that the area around them is quiet (no traffic, no dangerous animals around, and that other cats in the area have been neutered/spayed and had their shots).

I'm aware that many Americans don't share this opinion.

Hmmm, I am such a worry, worry wart, I just couldn't handle them going in and out all the time. So mine are strictly indoor. Of course we live in a busy suburb now and we are right off a main road, so this is a good decision for them. I'll be honest, when I hear of letting your cats go in and out, my first thought is oh goodness, I would be so worried. But I figure the cats and the owners know what they are doing.

I went to visit my cousin who lives in the country and she lets one of her cats in and out all the time. I was just a fret the whole time there thinking about the cat. But she swears that cat will bring back dead coyotes, a bit of an exaggeration. I am extremely skilled in worrying about my babies and am pretty protective. Which is one reason I'm thinking having kids may not be for me - I would damage them with over protectiveness!!! If/when we get a house of our own; I've already decided to build, ahem to have my hubby (assuming I'll ever get married) build an outdoor enclosure for them. Although I suspect they will be afraid of it at first. I think they are pretty happy looking out the windows for now

[PayItForward]

Originally posted by Randi
PIF, I'm glad you're bringing this up the way you do, I have been thinking about how to go about educating people about it without causing an uproar. ............

It's just so difficult with vets, who are the ones earning the money on it. Still, in the first place, you'd think that the reason they did become a vet, was to help animals, not make them suffer, to fullfill an uneducated persons wish.

I so agree with you

I have bought the domain www.declawing.co.uk with the aim of trying to reach those who need it

Amber, You are so right, your parents are not animal haters, they just haven't read about declawing and alternatives training. I am very happy that you have decided not to declaw if you have a choice

PS My cats are very happy to enjoy being able to go outside but I only allow this as we are in a quiet area etc.