I really hate to ask this...

[shais_mom]

I really hate to ask this question, but I really need to understand this.
I remember a post Sophie's Daddy posted a long time ago about doing a submissive roll to a puppy or dog. I am unable to remember how long ago it was and I am sure I won't be able to find it.
Would someone explain this concept to me?? I read it but didn't may attention b/c I knew I couldn't do that to Shaianne or needed to. But with Keegan..... I would like to understand the concept better before deciding. Please don't think I am cruel, but I remember Candy saying I wasn't a dog. So I am trying to prove to Keegan I am alpha. Eating first, walking thru the door first etc.
Thanks~

[aly]

Hi Staci, I'm on my way to work so don't have too much time. I know the behaviorist at the shelter here really doesn't recommend doing the alpha roll anymore.

All the other dominance exercises should be enough. I'll post more later.

Just loooked up this link: http://www.vin.com/PetCare/Articles/Dogs/PCF02613.htm

And this one: http://www.bogartsdaddy.com/bouvier/...ha-roll_no.htm

-Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiired Alyson

[Albea]

Another site you can check is the American Dog Trainers Network at: http://www.canine.org/

[Karen]

Keegan is still a puppy, and I wouldn't worry about such seemingly drastic techniques. I think that more important than that is just consistency in all the other ways you say "I am the big dog here" as she has sooooo much to learn that some things make take a while to sink in. Meanwhile, enjoy those puppy toes, the fat tummy, all the sweetness that she is! She sill continue to "test" you as she grows, but as long as you remain firm and consistant, all should be well two years from now. (We DID warn you that Goldens [and Labs, for that matter] have very long puppy-hoods, didn't we?)

[TheAntiPam]

PetTalk has such a wealth of sound and helpful advice, but sometimes it can be overwhelming... and of course, parents of all types worry about doing the right thing.

Just use love and consistancy and moderation as your guide, and give yourself a break if things don't go as expected! Being a parent is hard! Best wishes for Keegan and for you!

[ November 17, 2001: Message edited by: TheAntiPam ]

[Logan]

Pam took the words right out of my mouth, Staci. I have two beautiful, pretty well behaved girls now, and I didn't do anything right!You'll be fine and so will Keegan. Remember that she is just a baby.......

[RachelJ]

I have to chime in here too. You have probably heard too many of our NAWTEEDAWG stories and want to get a head start on Keegan, but I wouldn't worry about a submissive roll unless you have the ALPHA QUEEN of a puppy, and you don't, because I had her. I used the the submissive roll but really didn't find that it made that much of a difference anyway. Karen is right, consistency of expectations is the best thing you can do for your little girl.
Walking through the door first is a good practice. One thing that a dog trainer taught me (which I wish I would have know sooner) was when you teach a command, such as "sit", you should use it with a release command. You say...Keegan, sit. (Only say the command once) When the dog sits or you help it into the sit position, praise her with enthusiasm. What you want the puppy to do then is to stay sitting until you say "okay", or some other word that denotes the puppy doesn't have to sit anymore. If the puppy gets up after sitting, you say, "No, sit". and put her back in the sitting position. Then "okay" and happy, happy, what a good dog and she can get up. You would want to start out with making her stay in the sit position only seconds, and gradully increase it to a little longer(10 - 15 seconds). You have to gear this to the puppy's ability to grasp at this very young age and like others said, remember she is just a baby. You are not into training sessions, just a little here and a little there interspersed throughout her day. We are not talking about a sit-stay here for any length of time, just getting the puppy used to understanding that "sit" doesn't mean sit down and then pop back up right away, it means sit until I am told I am told "okay". Such as exercise is also establishing you as the gentle leader of this pack.

[carrie]

I agree with what has already been said - you do not need to "alpha roll" any dog ever.
By doing what you are already doing you will be elected Alpha and will not need to force the issue - ideal.

[karen israel]

Shock of Shocks! I did better than I thought!
Not that I don't have a "Alpha Tester" now and then, but I too, wound up with a pretty good boy despite my shortcomings. Lots and Lots of praise (and dried liver treats) worked for me. I started puppy school at 4 months and he graduated 1st in the class!!!
To this day I still do the simple sit/stays/down, come (ok this is still a tuffy but on purpose). Good luck! You'll be FINE! RELAX! You sound like you have it all together!

[shais_mom]

Thank you for all the positive comments, I know I have only had her for a week. She is the sweetest little thing. But I am afraid b/c she was taken at 6 weeks she will not learn to "play nice" with me, or Kylie. She is really doing well. She know Come for the most part!! We have to start working on other things now.
I must stress this. I really didn't want to use the submissive roll technique. I didn't like the sounds of it when Sophie's Daddy posted it. But I wanted to have it to fall back on IF I ever needed it. I wasn't saying I was going to use it on her the next day, I just wanted to know more about it. She definalty isn't the Alpha Queen Puppy. She is doing pretty good, I just wish she wouldn't terrorize Kylie. Rachel, I am wondering if I should have named her Keegan Noelle like Hannah Noel! B/c I say "KEEGAN NO!" alot!
Thanks everyone!

[RachelJ]

Staci, that reminds me of something I learned (again too late)...and I hope this doesn't sound too convoluted...Try not to use her name and "no" together too much. You don't want to have her associate her name and a correction. Her name rightfully is an attention getting word, but as puppies, most frequently when we have to get there attention is when they are doing something wrong and then it's "Hannah, NO" all the time (as you have found out). Just use the "NO". You are going to slip on this one, a lot, because it just comes out, but try anyway. We want the name to be a very positive cue for her.

I got a kick out of the fact you remembered my Hannah Noel story.

[ November 20, 2001: Message edited by: RachelJ ]

[shais_mom]

That is a good idea Rachel, I will try to remember that.Didn't think of that.
Of course I remeber the Hannah Noel Story I even told a girl I work with and she thought it was really funny !!