Non-primary English Speakers (EASL)

[Cataholic]

I am curious as to how you that speak another language primary over English find following the threds? Do you consult a dictionary at times? Do we speak so basically that you don't need to? Do you speak English as well as you write it? Do you sometimes in the back of your minds wish, "Oh, why can't this be in MY language?" Do you find this helps your English? Do you sometimes know what we are saying by the rest of the words? Is that enough questions for one post? He he he....and, in case it isn't overly clear- I am simply curious, and in no way am I implying that English is a better language, easier/harder language, should be the main language, blah blah blah (that, my friends, is somewhat of a 'legal disclaimer').(

[Cincy'sMom]

As an American, born and bred I can't answer any of your questions, but I do think we, as Americans expect to have everything in our language. If we go to another country, we expect everyone to know what we are saying, ando to understand us, but if others come here, we also want them to learn our language. So I guess I want to add the question to the rest of the world...do you think Americans in general, are rude selfish people?

[NoahsMommy]

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
As an American, born and bred I can't answer any of your questions, but I do think we, as Americans expect to have everything in our language. If we go to another country, we expect everyone to know what we are saying, ando to understand us, but if others come here, we also want them to learn our language. So I guess I want to add the question to the rest of the world...do you think Americans in general, are rude selfish people?

Maybe its because of where you live, but here in CA, its the EXACT opposite. We have many, many Mexican immigrants that refuse to learn the language. (Most likely because we make that OK) And, everyone I know feels that if we were to go to say, China, we'd feel we would need to learn the language, especially if we were living there. This may be a "California Opinion"....but this is how I've grown up, quite the contrary to what you have dealt with Cincy's Mom. Isn't that interesting?

Great thread Catoholic....I know that when I took French in high school and college, I began to think and write in mixed language...I"ve often wondered if those who use two languages regularly do the same.

[Soledad]

My grandparents lived in NYC for 25 + years and never learned English. It wasn't to be mean or rude or to spite people. They just never needed to learn for their jobs, and most of their friends were Spanish speaking. The fact that they had about a 3rd grade education probably didn't help.

I just don't understand why Americans get so enraged when people don't speak English in America. There is no "official" language in this country and it's not as if people do it intentionally to offend you. Have you ever tried to learn a language as an adult? And how many Americans are bilingual?

[Cataholic]

I AM TAKING THIS THRED BACK OVER!!!

I am not looking for a philosophical discussion. My questions were really as simple as they seemed. Please start your own thred if you want these other very interesting questions answered. I have always been curious about this, well, since I joined PT, and really just want these simple questions answered.

Please?? Pretty please?

[popcornbird]

I was born and raised in the States, so English is my primary language, even though I am tri-lingual. I speak Urdu at home most of the time, and English otherwise, so I guess this question doesn't really apply to me, however, most of my family (aunts/uncles/cousins) that live in Pakistan "know" English, so I may be able to answer from their perspective. Although their primary language is Urdu, they know English VERY well (with an accent of course) but they can understand everything we say and can talk as well as us too *when they want to.* I never really talk to my cousins in English (besides on Internet chat) but I did a couple of times when we went to visit just to tease them. I used very had words that I "thought" they wouldn't understand, but they responded surprisingly well and knew exactly what the hard words meant. I was amazed that they knew English that well when they never lived in an English speaking country.

Oh and in answer to the question if we think Americans in general are self-fish in that they feel everyone should know English whether they live here or there, I would say that the certain Americans that feel that way are, however, I don't know many of those kinds of people personally. Most of the people that I know are very much interested in other languages and they think its cool to know other languages. I don't think Californians in general really care, but people in other states, some of them are rude and self-fish. (Californians are my favorite Americans). I don't mean that people from other states are bad or anything, but from my experience, the ones that I've met (not all) consider themselves as superior to people of other races and countries.

[Former User]

Well, I've loved English language ever since we had to start learning it at school on 3rd grade (age 9-10), and maybe that's why, it never has been a problem for me to learn it. When I was still living in Finland, I didn't have a chance to speak it so much, but I kept my english alive by having lots of penpals from all oveer the world. Now that I live here in Belgium, english is my main language as that's what I use to communicate with my husband.

I have not needed a dictionary that many times here at PT, and when I have, it has been some of those medical words that have come up. I can't say myself whether my english is as "good" when I speak and write it, but at least my husband understands me (and his father is British so he has been talking english since the day he learnt how to speak). I feel that english is my mother tongue now, since I speak it all the time. I've seen a huge improve ever since I had to start talking it all day, I'm more confident and not afraid to use it anymore. I was horrified at first when I had to speak infront of Patrick's father, I thought he would keep correcting me all the time, but he just said if you make mistakes, you will, it's not the end of the world. And you can always learn from them. That's right. And I can only learn and improve my english if I keep using it.

Im my opinion, English is a pretty easy language to learn compared to some other languages, for example Finnish or Dutch (that's what I'm studying now), but of course it depends on the people too, some people just don't have the 'ear' for new languages...

My best friend here in Belgium is American, and she has said that some Americans don't bother to learn a new language because "everyone speaks english anyway". She herself is different though, she speaks great Dutch already and is learning French now. And when I had penpals from US, few of them spoke German, so it's just up to the people. I woulnd't say American's are different in this than others.

Phew, long enough answer

I loved English from the first day we learned it at school (age 13)!It sounds great , and it is really much easier than other languages like French or German !! The grammar is simple , compared to French ; example the verb "to give"

--> French : Je donne , tu donnes , il donne , nous donnons , vous donnez , ils donnent .
--> English : I give , you give , he gives , we give , you give , they give .

Clear , isn't it !!

When I learn a new language , I try to speak it as much as possible . I also read books in their original language ! I am also NOT afraid to make mistakes ,(he he). When we moved to the USA for 2 years in '83 , I was glad I could communicate with the people around me ! They said I spoke English really well , and also that I had a funny accent .
ha ha , I am still trying to find out what sounds so funny then ... ;.Oh well , I KNOW I make mistakes , but I do not really care ! As long as I can make myself understandable ...

If I need a dictionnary ? Rarely ; when I take one , it is more to look up how a word it is written .

And NO , Americans are NOT selfish nor arrogant !!! I've lived in St.Louis for 2 years , and I still cherish our friends we made then !! When we arrived there , everybody was so helpful and friendly ; I will NEVER forget that !! I LOVE AMERICANS (and I mean it !!) !!!!!!

ps. My advize to everybody who moves to another country : try to learn the local language ASAP ; it is so much easier to communicate and understand the people there , and they all appreciate to hear a "foreigner" speak a few words in their own language !!

[Lillycat]

interesting thread.....

[Barbara]

My first non-German language was French. I've been learning 9 years of French at school and then I was married to a French. So, my French was rather idiomatic. I had only learned 3 years English. But at the university I needed English because I studied physics and English is definitely the language of science and after that in business I needed it very much too. We have sister companies in the US, UK and Singapore with whom I work so I daily have to speak or write English. I also read English books.

I feel that posting here helps me in non-formal language. I sometimes need dictionaries, especially for haikus, but not often. The trick is to say it in a different way if you don't have the word to say what you want.
I am sure that this makes my English less precise than my German would be.

The next thing is about emotions. I have the impression that it is easier to speak about emotions in a foreign language. Because there is always the additional distance provided by the language.

Anyway, nobody here has to write basic English to make sure, Lut and I and all the others understand. We are talking about cats arent't we -and that is our specialty

[Barbara]

To Cincy's mom: American's -rude selfish people?
I wonder how anybody can have this idea who has been at PT for a time. I am sure there are rude selfish people in any nation. I try to avoid them
Here I would see a really high level of humanity, acceptance of others and friendship.
I was really wondering how a theme like atheism could be discussed here. Nearly all posts were understanding, tolerant and even wise. I am proud to be part of a community like this.

P.S. For Americans it is of course easier to get around with their own language. If you go from Vancouver to Orlando, then in Europe you would have crossed 10 countries with 14 different languages (due to the fact that countries like Belgium and Switzerland have more than one official language).

[Ann]

Swedish is obviously my original language but I think I speak English almost just as well. Lived in the USA for a long time and my boyfriend is from California.

Originally posted by Cincy'sMom
do you think Americans in general, are rude selfish people?

Not really moreso than other countries, but ignorant YUP.

[nsweezie]

English is my first language, but I have spoken French since I was about 10, many people in Canada can speak at least a little of both official languages.
I have a friend in Norway who is coming to live in Canada for a year, and they have promised to teach me some Norwegian. I'd love to learn more languages, I have such admiration for people who can speak 3 or 4 or more languages.

[Randi]

Originally posted by Cataholic
Do you speak English as well as you write it? Do you sometimes know what we are saying by the rest of the words?

Your first question is normally put the other way around here, "Do you write english as well as you speak it?" I'm glad to say I do. Years ago I helped a friend translate a dentist professors speach from danish into english. I tell you that was hard work! Last year I did a written english test at a Temp Bureau and they said " You did great, there were only 3 mistakes!" - one of them I knew about, so I was quite content.

As to figuring out a word I don't know in a sentence, I usually find that easy, but it does happen I have to look it up in a dictonary. Sometimes I ask John - he's british. I mostly ask him about the more subtle meanings of words, so I can express myself excact. John and I normally speak danish, unless we're with english/american friends.

When I first saw Phred's posts, I was a bit confused, but I soon got used to his writing, and enjoy it immensely now! Very talented!

I find it much easier to speak english with someone who has a huge vocabulary, it makes my english flow better. One of our friends, a translater (who unfortunately died last year) spoke excellent english and made a point of always using words we'd never heard before - that's a good way of learning!

The frustrating part is that, I sometimes stumble over words if I try to speak too fast - or if I'm tired.

I started learning english in school when I was about 10 and I didn't find it that difficult, but I'm sure the mere interest made it easier.

I'm trying to learn spanish now, it's actually not very difficult - apart from some grammer! I've never bothered to learn german or french, just wasn't interested.

Some of you may not have seen this, I think it's hilarious!


An interesting article highlighting British power over Germany.

The European Union have recently announced that finally an agreement has been reached to adopt English as the preferred language for European communications, rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of negotiations, Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and as such has accepted a five year phased plan to implement what will become known as EuroEnglish .

In the first year, 's' will be used instead of the soft 'c'. Sertainly sivil servants will resieve this news with joy . Also the hard 'c' will be replased with 'k`. Not only will this klear up konfusion, but typewriters kan have one less letter .

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome 'ph' will be replased by 'f'. This will make words like 'fotograf' 20 per sent shorter .

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible, which have always been a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"s in the languag is disgrasful and they wil go .

By the fourth year , peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing 'th' by 'z' and 'w'
by 'v'

During ze fifz year , ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou', and similar changes vud of kore be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters .

After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech ozer.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru !

[Tubby & Peanut's Mom]

Originally posted by Casper & Kitty
When I was still living in Finland, I didn't have a chance to speak it so much, but I kept my english alive by having lots of penpals from all oveer the world.

I am as American as you can get, born and raised here, with many generations of the same behind me, so English is the only language I really know - but I am trying to learn German, so this is from a little different perspective. As Niina mentined, the most important part of learning a language is the continual usage of it, and that is the hardest part for me learning German. Since, as mentioned, we Americans expect everyone to know English, there are very few people I talk to on a regular basis that know German, so I don't get that many chances to actually use it in a day to day setting. I listen to may tapes and such, but that only gets you so far.

Terry works for a German company, so when we go over there it's usually for work, but it still puts us in contact with many Germans on a social basis. They speak English to us, because they know we don't understand German. When they start apologizing for their English, we always say "Don't worry about it, you English is much better than our German." They always have to agree and smile about that one. They also seem to be impressed with the fact that I am trying to understand them in their own language. Since most Americans make such little effort to learn another language, they seem surprised when they come across one.

Another thing I've noticed is that a lot of times even though English is most peoples' only language, their usage of it is not always correct. And it seems that a lot of people who have another first language know "better" English than the English speakers. By that I mean they know all the correct usages and will sometimes even correct us - and sometimes don't get our humor or jesting because it's in a kind of "lazy English" I call it.

Anyway, so this doesn't get too long, I believe that every American child should be made to learn a foreign language - and keep at it all through high school. It seems if you start them young, children can learn a language a lot easier than an adult can. However, I'm glad that there is and "international" language that many people speak so that we can have people from many contries interacting in such places as this. If everyone spoke their own language, we would not have gotten to know Niina, Lut, Barbara, Koxka, Randi & John, Efrat and all the others from other countries that are here at PT - not to mention C & K, Sydney, Maya, Inka, Fister, etc. I'm glad this is such an "international" site and there are enough people her from elsewhere to enable Catholic to even ask such a question. Thanks Cataholic!