for other Atheists out there

[COCatMama]

I believe everyone should be entitled to their own beliefs and opinions, but that they should keep their beliefs to themselves and not try to force others to believe the same. I am sick to death of people not respected my beliefs (or lack thereof) and of the 'door to door' religious types, you don't seem me banging on people's doors at 8 am on a Sunday telling them there is no god or devil etc etc, do ya? My family knows I'm an atheist, and for the most part, we agree to disagree (except my Gramma, she can't deal with it) With Christmas coming. I am wondering what you other Atheists/Agnostics do? I don't think of Christmas as a religious thing, but as an occasion to eat, drink and be merry with friends and family (also to give/receive gifts) I decline to 'say grace' but am quiet while others do it.

[Soledad]

Lalania -

Try planning a wedding with one half devout Catholics and the other fire and brimstone Pentecostals while you and your partner are both atheists/agnostics!!! That makes Christmas look like a day in the park.

I honor Christmas because I love the idea behind it. I like that we gather to think about others and to show the people close to us that we love them. I guess I don't regard it as too much of an issue as Christmas was a Pagan holiday that the Church made into a Christian one to make the conversion process easier.

I don't think you need to believe in God to be a good moral person who wants to celebrate once a year with their loved ones.

[COCatMama]

ack!!!! that would be a total nightmare! LOL
I have much higher morals than alot of supposed 'religious' people I know, a friend once told me that . He was suprised at how moral I am without being religious, see I don't believe in heaven or hell, I believe you have to do 'the right thing' simply because it's the right thing to do!

[Soledad]

Exactly! Look at how many religious people there are in prison! Being religious is NOT a guarantee that you're a moral person. I wish more people would realise this.

I also hate that if you don't believe in God or don't know about God's existence that you're seen as having "no beliefs" and can therefore be expected to have others' beliefs imposed on your own since "you don't believe in anything, anyway." I find that insulting.

We're going to have a really great wedding filled with love and blessings from my family. I fail to see how that is not sacred.

[COCatMama]

It absolutely is sacred, and to heck with what anyone else thinks!! It's YOUR wedding! If I ever get married it will NOT be in a church because I may be a lot of things, but a hypocrite aint one of them!

[mugsy]

While I am a Christian (born and bred Catholic), I respect everyone's beliefs ( or lack thereof) as long as they respect mine. Personally I find Christmas to be terribly depressing. Did you know that in the States, President Grant in 1880 something declared Christmas to be a secular holiday?? Interesting eh?? I was listening to Bill O'Reilly the other day (who is having a hissy fit about the ACLU and it's lawsuits regarding Christmas) and he pointed that fact out. I'm not sure why personal beliefs have to turn into battle royale just because they happen to differ. I always enjoy battling it out with the Jehovah Witnesses or Mormans when they come to the house (although with the dogs, they never tend to stay very long! lol). I always start the conversation out with, "Hi, I'm Catholic and perfectly happy with my faith and I salute the flag and say the Pledge." That usually shuts them up and then we go on.

I got into an interesting debate with a JW a few months ago about evolution. By the time he left he was beginning to think about it.

As for Christmas, I'm sure we'll have to spend a simply horrible day at my sister's house with her crappy kids who treat my father like dirt and tell their kids what awful people Mike and I are. I dread holidays! lol I'm really kind of hoping to attend Midnight Mass this year, as I always INTEND to go, but fall asleep waiting!! lol

[Soledad]

I think the ACLU gets a bad rap (and I especially wouldn't expect to hear a kind word about it from O'Reilly). I don't agree with abolishing Christmas, but I support their work for equality and freedom of expression. "God" was only added into the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50s due to rabid McCarthyism. I see no reason why it has to remain based on that alone. But it is not a huge issue to me, and I could care less either way.

I just think that in this especially scary age where we see civil liberties being trampled on on a daily basis, I do take comfort that the ACLU is around. I just wish they'd focus less on Christmas and the Pledge of Allegiance than other things.

In a poll, atheists ranked the lowest in trustability rates. I find this to be a horrible prejudice. Try being an atheist/agnostic in America and you will find that it is incredibly difficult. If you're not accused of being immoral or amoral, then you're destined for a fiery end.

[Twisterdog]

Excellent question, PopcornBird. I was just thinking that same thing myself.

I firmly believe everyone has a right to their own beliefs and a right to practice (or not practice) whatever religion they choose. That is one of the benefits to living in a free country.

But Christmas, despite the historical references to paganism and secularism, is indeed practiced today as a Christian holiday, celebrating the birth of Jesus, the cornerstone of the Christian religion. If one does not believe in Jesus, why would one celebrate Christmas?

One of my employees is a Jehovah's Witness, therefore she does not celebrate Christmas, Easter, birthdays, etc. We all respect her views. However, when a customer brings goodies to us for Christmas, she is quick to eat them. Or when a customer writes a check for a Christmas bonus, she is quick to demand her share. We have all commented on the hypocracy in this ... if you don't celebrate a holiday and don't believe in the religious premise behind said holiday, that means everything to do with the holiday, IMO, not simply what is convienent.

I don't celebrate Jewish, Pagan or Muslim holidays, even though they might be fun. I am not a Jew or a Pagan or a Muslim. My brother is a Pagan, and believe me, they have some FUN holidays. But I'm not a Pagan, so it would be false for me to attend.

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

Christians celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ. BUT the rest of the world celebrates Christmas too.. as of what I learned on Pet Talk... It is a story of an older man who sent gifts to children who needed some happiness in their lives... or that is how I heard the story... so the athiest or agnostic's ... or well everyone...celebrates the Saint Nicholas part of Christmas... I am not sure where the Saint Nicholas story originated but It is fun for kids to have a holiday for getting gifts and it is just a joyus time....well it is supposed to be.... Hopefully I shed some light for you Popcornbird.

[Twisterdog]

Saint Nicholas was indeed a real person, and he is that basis of all "Santa Claus" type characters today. However, Saint Nicholas was a Catholic priest, later a bishop. Still Christian. Here are some links explaining this:

http://www.santalady.com/history.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/his...tmas/nick.html

[Sara luvs her Tinky]

thanks for the links Twisterdog.... the first link was the story that I heard so long ago....

[Nomilynn]

This makes me think of the move to remove "Merry Christmas" from all holiday greetings in stores, schools, etc in BC. It's a debate right now. I think it's offensive to take away Merry Christmas but still have Happy Hanukkah, Happy Eid, Happy Chinese New year, etc etc, which are all terms that are not being challenged. I am a christian and I celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ, but I also respect everyone else's choices. What I don't understand is why is it that ONLY Christmas is being challenged? That seems quite predjudiced in itself. My dad told me once, there is no reason to find it offensive when someone wishes a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukka, or otherwise (I'm sorry if I'm spelling Hanukka wrong.. I think I am??). He said, "If I say Merry Christmas to someone and they say Thanks, Happy Hanukkah back, is that not religious tolerance? Why should we be offended? That way, we are celebrating with everyone, not against anyone." His words really stuck with me, because I think it makes a lot of sense. I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they choose, but that right should also be for Christians as well. We should not have to take Christmas out of our vocabulary unless all other religious greetings are removed as well, and I think that would just be ridicuous! It's like telling everyone to wear the same clothes and eat the same food all the time. I enjoy seeing all the different traditions and think they should all be celebrated with the same respect!

[Soledad]

Popcornbird -

I was raised Catholic. Just because I stopped believing, does not mean that I am no longer attached to traditions. When I visit my mother, I go to church with her out of respect, because I know it means a lot to her. I even enjoy it, I just don't believe anymore.

Why would I STOP celebrating Christmas. Let's look at the vast majority of Americans for a moment. Do you think they're celebrating the birth of Christ? I don't. I think far more people view Christmas as a consumerist exchange. It's lost its religious significance in mainstream culture. Look at most Christmas movies, do you even see a reference to Jesus?

Christmas is about sharing, home, love and family. I am grateful Jesus Christ was born. I am grateful for the change he made on this earth and for his teachings. I am therefore grateful for his birth. As an agnostic, I see no problem with me indulging in a holiday that has been long divorced from its religious connotations as I probably have far more respect for it than some "Christians".

I might also add that is a public holiday, which pretty much enforces the public to acknowledge it at the least.

[Nomilynn]

Soledad - I totally agree that Christmas has become a consumerist holiday. It's not about the birth of Jesus any more for a lot of people (for some it is - I'm not saying it isn't). I think a lot of people celebrate Christmas as a cultural tradition rather than a religious holiday, and if that's how they want to celebrate, that's not a problem for me. For me, the problem is when someone says, "I don't celebrate Christmas I celebrate holiday X, but I want all the benefits that people who celebrate Christmas but I don't want Christmas to get any attention." Let me see if I can make this more clear. For example, a girl I knew once completely disagreed with everything Christmas stood for. She didn't think that people should even have the time off for it, because it was awknowleding the holiday (sorry for the bad spelling). However, you wouldn't ever see her NOT taking advantage of the Christmas break or eat the Christmas foods. I think that's very hypocritical. But for people who celebrate Christmas for their own reasons, then all the power to them!

[Barbara]

Originally posted by popcornbird
So why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Makes me wonder. I have wondered this for years and would love to hear an answer.

In Northern Europe there have been feasts in mid winter already at times before Christ. It is very dark and cold then, daytime is only some hours and you feel very much like gathering round a fire, meeting your friends and relations and to make sure all of you are warm and can see some light. The candles, the green trees and the lots of food came originally from that time.

When Christianity came it added the idea of Christ's birthday to these feasts. I think you can celebrate with or without that idea. It always helps to feel closer to your family -and your cats as far as we are concerned, and to survive the dark and cold winter.