Chihuahuas Fighting

[Ray'sMom]

I have four dogs, two Chihuahuas (females), one full-sized Doxie (male) and one mixed breed (female, with rottie, GSD, and blue heeler physical characteristics -- who knows?) I also have a very elderly cat (male). All animals are spayed or neutered and in good phsycial health. Our pack has lived together in relative peace for nearly five years and I am the alpha. Although the dogs do challenge each other's pack positions, it is to be expected and it never got violent UNTIL about a week ago. For some reason, the two chihuahuas, normally well-behaved girls, are after each other, drawing blood on three occasions. This happens when I am home, and, according to my husband and son, never when I am at work. I do not know if I should get in the middle of them when they start -- they go from growls to fangs in about five seconds. They seem to fight over favored position, such as on my lap or next to me. Thus far, I have separated them (try separating fighting Chihuahuas and see how easy it is! ), but I do not know what else to do. Any ideas will be much appreciated.

[Pawsitive Thinking]

Odd for them to start fighting now. Wish I could help other than suggest a thick pair of gloves............

[Ray'sMom]

Well, after the first time, I wised up and now I always have my husband's leather welding gloves nearby!

[Dorothy39]

Your question has me wondering. after googled up and have read a few articles, I thought of sharing this link. http://www.canismajor.com/dog/feisty.html


I have read about jealousy between spayed females, however, I haven't found anything attributed to the Chihuahua Breed yet.

I'm sorry that your Chihuahuas are making such a fuss!!!!

[sanford8916]

That was a good article to read. So I can choose which dog I want to be next in the pack line??? Should I choose the dog with less attitude to be next??

[Ray'sMom]

It was a great article. Yes, I am noticing "a dirty look, a low growl, a shove," but then they just go at it so fast! They are both in the lowest pack positions, so maybe I should back off the privileges given to one of the Chihuahuas? But which one? Pack order is me, my husband and son, Rottie mix, Doxie, elderly cat, then Chihuahuas (not sure which is the lowest). I am really at the end of my rope with these two girls. The other dogs do not really get involved, except that they hang around the edges of the fight, almost as if they are making bets on the outcome! I am afraid that if it continues, the other two dogs will start to get violent as well.

[catnapper]

Is one the instigator more so than the other? Often I find when problems arise suddenly, that the one starting the fights actually has an underlying health issue. She's feeling vulnerable and lashes out when another dog is too close, etc.

[Ray'sMom]

Queenie is fairly large for a Chi., stocky, and generally very sturdily built. She is a classic "apple dome." Sophia is much smaller, very slender, a "deer-head" Chihuahua and appears to be part something else, perhaps small terrier. All of our dogs are rescues, so there is a lot about their pasts about which we do not know. When we got the dogs, Queenie was perhaps 2 years of age, and Sophia was was about a year old. We got them about 2 months apart (from Animal Control's "death row" ) The instigator of the fights is ALWAYS the smaller Sophia. I've had them both to the vets for check-up. The vet gave me no help at all re. this behavior.

[butrrfly23]

I don't know if I have a solution for you (at least not just yet) but here are a few things to consider and some things to try...

How often do you take all the dogs out on a walk together? If the smaller dogs can't walk as fast as the larger ones, do they also get a separate daily walk with you? If they are not getting enough exercise it could just be boredom & frustration. Many people just figure if they have a big yard their dogs are getting enough exercise but walks are a mental as well as physical challenge to follow their leader as they walk.

Has anything at all changed in the house since the onset of their fighting? Any new pack members or changes with existing pack members? Stresses at work or school or something that might be making you or your family on edge? Sometimes when owners are stressed out over something, the dogs pick up on it and their behavior changes.

I am also curious about the fact that they are only doing it when you're around and that they seem to be fighting over your attention. It seems to imply a dominance battle in control of you. If that's the case, your dominance might be in question by these two for some reason. Maybe your dominance is not getting communicated to them lately for some reason or maybe it's not being communicated consistently. The role of alpha has to be reinforced every day in everything not just at training time but also at eating time, going outside time, playtime, etc. you should always be first/alpha and they should always have to follow rules you have set. Again, being under stress could affect the energy they're sensing from you. Sometimes even just worrying yourself over this new behavior they're displaying can perpetuate that exact behavior you're wanting to stop. I know for a fact there have been occasions where my anticipating some behavior of one of my dogs ended up sending them a message that I was unsure or anxious about it and that encouraged the same behavior.

It would probably be good if you could find a way to safely break up their fights and to make them understand that it is not going to be tolerated by you. Maybe using the gloves you keep on hand or using a tool such as a broom or something to get in between them when they start up would a safe way to do it. If you try to break them up and get bit, never get scared and back away from it, but stay there until you get what you want (them relaxing). And anytime they start to fight over you, once the fight breaks up, put them both in a Down to make them relax (preferably not facing each other where they could start sending aggressive messages to each other with eye contact). Once it's over, sit back down near them but completely ignore them both, especially if they try to come up and sit in your lap. Pretty soon they'll realize that neither of them can demand your attention (which puts you back in the dominant role). Later on when they're both calm, you can call them both to you for some affection, but only if they sit nicely together. As soon as they start acting like they're vieing for your attention, start ignoring them again.

As far as the treating one dog as more dominant than the other, I've read about that before, but have never done that myself. I've always treated both dogs exactly the same. As long as they behave and follow my rules, they both get equal feeding, equal attention, equal play, etc. I figure, as the alpha, it shouldn't really matter to me who the other dogs decide is more dominant than them, all that matters, as the alpha, is that all the other dogs submit to me. From there, they can figure out their own hierarchy, they just have to do it within the confines of the rules I've set for the pack (no fighting).

Sorry for the long-winded post!

[Ray'sMom]

You have certainly raised some interesting questions and solutions. I have had an increase in my work load, plus I am working on an advanced degree, so I am not home NEARLY as much as I used to be. When I do get home, I tend to "cootchie-coo" the dogs a lot more than I perhaps should. Hey, I am over-"cootchie-cooing" everyone, since I am so often absent . Could it be that they are interpreting this as a slip in my pack status? I or my husband take the dogs for walks twice a day, the big ones separately, then the two Chis. Also, I and my son set aside special play time (hide and seek, fetch, tug-o-war, sit-stand-stay practice, etc.). I will certainly think about your suggestions. I really, really appreciate your help!

[Daisy and Delilah]

I don't have any advice to add to the other posts but I wanted to tell you that I really feel for you. This must be about to drive you crazy. I know it would really bother me if my girls got that bad. I do have a similar situation but I've seen no blood(yet). I have two Chis also-both female. I got Daisy first as a tiny puppy(she's the small one), while I still had my RB, Killer(another female Chi). After I lost Killer, I adopted Delilah(larger one) from an elderly woman-she was two years old. I took Daisy with me to meet Delilah for the first time. Daisy loved Delilah and they got along great for awhile. Suddenly, Daisy seemed to try to take on the alpha dog role and began to bully Delilah for really no reason. They have had a couple of bad fights and one really bad one. I had to pull them apart. The only thing I can figure is that Daisy is in some pain occasionally with the luxated patella in her back leg. Perhaps she strikes out at Delilah because of it. On the other side of the coin, Delilah will sometimes take a dominate role over Daisy, as if she's paying her back. Delilah is such a sweetheart, I don't think she would ever have started instigating the fights if Daisy hadn't shown aggression first. So, in reality, like your Chis, my smallest one is the main player in instigation as well. It's very frustrating and it makes you feel helpless. I wish you the best and hope you find a solution very soon.
p.s. I would love to see pictures of them.

[Ray'sMom]

Thank you for your post. Now, I do not feel as if I am alone. You know exactly how bad it is when those little dogs get into it! Is this a characterstic of Chis, or females? The other female, a Rottie mix, pretty much stays out of it and is a mellow dog -- a low growl or a stern look and the other dogs leave her alone. I do love both my Chis., but my husband is making noises as if we need to find a good, NEW home for one of them . If I keep them apart for long periods of time, it just seems to make it worse, as if the little Sophia has been saving up all day to get in the larger Queenie's face. I might add that Queenie is constantly by my side and at my feet, around the house and yard and during walks, but lately Sophia has started to run around me, ahead of me, is leaning on me, etc. and she needs constant reminding as to who is the leader. I think Sophia may be trying to make a bid for a higher status. It is driving me CRAZY! I will definately consider all of the suggestions presented here. Once again, Pet Talk members have proved an invaluable source of great ideas and supprt.

[Daisy and Delilah]

Sorry, I forgot to mention it earlier but.....Hi and welcome to Pet Talk!! My name is Terry and Mom to the fabulous Daisy and Delilah I don't know if this is characteristic behavior for Chis--male or female. I would love to know. I think Chis are pretty territorial, so it's quite possible. They aren't the easiest dogs to train either. No matter what you're trying to teach them. They're stubborn, head strong, and feisty, among other things Maybe their natural personalities make them like this? I'm not sure about any of it now that I think about it. I'm shocked that your Chis get along with your other dogs. My girls don't get along well with large dogs at all. Everytime they see my kid's dogs, they're so hyper and barky, I have to seperate them quickly. However, most of the time, they're pretty good girls and a pleasure to be around. I did think of one more thing. Did your girls start their original fighting when food was involved? I know D and D's first fight was over something I was eating. Even though food wasn't necessarily involved after that, the growling and "toothy grins" got worse. The only thing I usually have to do is speak to them firmly and authoritative and they stop. Believe me-I feel your pain and hope you don't have to rehome either of them. Please keep us posted and again, good luck with the problem.
p.s. Daisy gets the maddest at Delilah when Delilah tries to nicely kiss her--Delilah kisses her sister's face and Daisy's teeth come out. Delilah is a bit excessive with the "kisses"

[Ray'sMom]

Imagine that -- a Chi licking! That, I know, is one characterstic of the breed. Sophia drives evewryone absolutely insane with her "kissing." The two Chis pretty much hang together, although they do play with the other dogs and they enjoy teasing the cat, until Fluffy has had enough . I cannot rememer what their first fight was over, but they ended up under a king-sized bed and it was awful, trying to get them out and separated. Sophia was pretty bloodied up that time, although it always looks worse than it is. What I have done so far is remind Sophia that I am the boss and kept both dogs off my lap and away from my side . It seems to be working -- fingers crossed! Thanks again!

[Giselle]

How exactly do you "remind them who's boss"? Being boss doesn't just mean being taller and stronger. Being Alpha requires further mental manipulation. Have you any experience with Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF)? NILIF is a simple training methodology that allows you to assert your position as alpha by requiring the dog to perform for ANYTHING he/she wants. If she wants to eat, she better be willing to sit beforehand or else she's going to starve for the day. Dogs will most likely submit to you before anything that drastic occurs, but NILIF is supposed to be a gentle way to assert your position.

5. NILIF -- Nothing in life is free. This means the dog must PERFORM to get anything it wants. For Gypsy, because we were trying to reduce dominance that was already present, I chose to use the "down" command because it requires her to throw herself into the most submissive posture available. I have since started peppering "sits" into the program, just to keep her paying attention -- but the dominance problem is long gone, so I'm less concerned with how submissive she is. "Wanna cookie?" -- nothing in life is free, so the dog must "down" on command for the cookie. (BTW -- when you start introducing NILIF, carry food AT ALL TIMES -- you're still rewarding the dog for submitting - this is NONCONFRONTATIONAL. Reward for a LONG time, then wean off food sporadically, but still praise the behavior.) "Wanna go outside?" - dog must "down". "Wanna drink of water?" -- that's right. You're catching on. The dog gets NO freebies. She must *earn* everything -- food (you should see her slam her body on the floor for dinner!), play, petting, water, going out, going for a r-i-d-e, getting T-R-E-A-T-S, coming inside. Gypsy even has to "earn" the right to work on the agility equipment ... partly because I think it helps her attitude ("Ohboyohboyohboy, Alpha-mom made me down, I must be about to do something Good"), and partly because she's so excited to be there that she needs the extra control.

BTW -- there are other non-confrontational ways to establish dominance. Ignore a dog when it tries to initiate play -- and as soon as it gives up, you initiate the game yourself. Alpha dogs decide when the pack plays, and when it hunts. And I *do* like the idea of teaching a puppy or a dog to roll on its back and accept petting ... but it doesn't have to be a battle.

Also, I have heard that females tend to be more nippy than males, but I know this does not hold true for every breed. I've been through this with my dogs too, so I can feel your pain!