Kia's biting :(

[ramanth]

I'm finally at my wits end and don't know what to do.

Kia has always been food agressive and this wasn't helped by my idiot of an ex who would crawl towards her food bowl and tease her.

She used to pick things up like trash and such while on our walks and I couldn't get her to drop them. The obedience instructor advised me to keep something nice in my pocket and when she would pick something up that I don't want her to have, to pretend that what I have is better and she should drop the offending object/trash.

This has worked for bits of kleenex or trash around the house or on our walks. I'll usually just command. "NO!" and Kia will drop it and I'll swiftly reward her with "Good Girl!" and an affectionate carress.

In the last couple of weeks my city laid down grass seed and then sprayed it with a fertilizer/chemical mix. The grass grew quickly and has been mowed. Kia is constantly trying to eat the mowed grass chunks. I fear she might get sick from the chemical they sprayed and will tell her , "No, drop it!"

This isn't working. Try to bride with a treat. Won't drop it. I try to take it from her. She bit me. Yes.. bit me. She didn't break the skin but bruised it.

At this point, I've got her tackled to the ground, both scolding her for not dropping the grass plus for biting. I try pryng it from her mouth which is stupid of me because she bites me again! People are looking at me with pissed expressions like I'm beating my dog. I'm in tears, thouroughly embarressed, and miles from home.

I finally give up and let her have it, content to monitor her and clean up any grass vomit I'll get later.

Last Saturday she took a toy away from another dog and when I tried to get it back, she snapped at me.

I'm so close to muzzling her and I no longer look forward to walks with her, just knowing it'll be a huge battle.


What should I do?

[lizbud]

Kimmy,

Hi. I've forgotten how old Kia is? But I can tell you about
two sites I know of that I use as a starting off point to gather
helpful info on pup & dog behavior. Ist one is

http://www.perfectpaws.com

or I've used this one also

http://www.leerburg.com under training articles.

I had the same problem with Buddy, but only on outside
walks, etc. Inside , he could always be distracted with a treat.
Know what you mean by getting so embarressed by this
behavior while out on walks. Hopefully, starting earlier with
Moki, maybe it'll be different this time. Good luck on this.

[ramanth]

Thanks for the links Liz. It's sooooooo frustrating!

Kia is 4 years old.

[sasvermont]

I know someone who puts an Elizabethian collar on their dog for the walk, so it can't pick up objects to eat.

A muzzle? Well, that too would work.

I think Kia has developed a habit and hopefully you can break her of it.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[aly]

Oh Kimmy, I understand your frusteration!! Do you know of any behaviorists in your area? They can be pricey but I would just do one session with someone and they can give you advice. I hope that you can solve her snapping problem ASAP.

I can totally relate to your dog making people give you bad looks. Just this morning, Lolly made it look like I abused her! We were dropping Reece off at the groomer and walking out the door, my purse slipped down my shoulder and swung around a little. Lolly screamed and pulled away from me to the end of the leash, then dropped down looking terrified. Of course I NEVER EVER HIT or yell at my dogs, but her previous owner must have swung stuff at her while she was on leash because this has happened several times. Poor girl must have had an awful life to still be reacting so strongly after being with me for over a year now

[ramanth]

I'm going to search for some behaviorlists in the area. Maybe I can get a free consultation.

I don't want to muzzle her because everyones reaction around a muzzled dog is that it is mean and aggressive, which she is not. She's just freaking stubborn when it comes to something that she wants and can't have.

It'll be a last minute resort but one I may have to do to walk her.

[slleipnir]

Maybe try a gentle leader?? It works with Jo, she doesn't pick stuff up, but if shes smelling at something I don't want her to, I just give a pull and she'll listen. They're really great..hope it helps..

[ramanth]

I sent an email off to the behaviorist at the Humane Society where I got Kia. I'll call tomorrow if I don't hear back from her by then.

I've been thinking about those Gentle Leaders. I knew they were great to keep dogs from pulling but still allowed dogs to open their mouths. hmmmm... I'd hate to jerk on her head since she practically walks with her nose to the ground.

I don't call them walks.... they are more like sniffs! *laughs*

[slleipnir]

Well, it could keep her from going to the play you don't want her to. Like theres someone who does that to their lawn where I walk too, I just pull her away from the lawn so she can't walk neat it at all..? Maybe if you could do it for other things as well

[ramanth]

The city is repaving the road right by my apartment and have put up new sidewalks and curbs. It's between the sidewalk and curb that the new grass is. I think the city has been mowing it, so it's all mowed at once from my apartment to the downtown district.

I like to walk her downtown and back. It's scenic.

Now I really can't wait till it snows. *laughs*

Originally posted by slleipnir
Well, it could keep her from going to the play you don't want her to. Like theres someone who does that to their lawn where I walk too, I just pull her away from the lawn so she can't walk neat it at all..? Maybe if you could do it for other things as well

[ChrisH]

Oh, how I know what you mean about not looking forward to walks and stuff! I have always had those sort of problems with Bob, picking up things and eating them, and at one point I considered the muzzle too but over the last year or so he has eased up on it a bit. He still will get a frisbee etc if it is thrown for another dog when it comes close (I keep him on the leash so I can keep clear a lot of the time), golf balls, and any other sort of ball too! He just will not give them back without some sort of struggle. If it is a large enough item, that I can grip it without going in his mouth, we play the waiting game, I hold his collar with one hand and the object with the other, sometimes he gives it up fairly easily but there are other times when it takes ages and I feel very foolish standing there! Small things are a different matter, I used to go into his mouth and get it until one day he shifted for a better grip and in doing so bit me, I use give/treat method now, but it doesn`t always work which is a real worry. Using the Gentle Leader as slleipner suggested may work, I use one when we walk into town or go out somewhere where there may be a few people and it works well. It has to be used correctly though because misuse can harm, like any other aid I suppose. I have thought of going to a behaviourist too, but I really cannot afford to do so, I can just about cope with his antics as they are at the moment, though it would be nice not to have to!.
I am sorry that I can only empathise and not have anything positive to suggest. I truly hope you can find some way that works for Kia, she is such a beautiful girl. Good Luck

[ramanth]

Got Kia an appointment with a Behaviorist on Monday.

She also recommended some books that look interesting!

http://www.dogwise.com

Jean Donaldson is the author.

[mugsy]

Kimmy....did Mike contact you?? If he didn't I'm going to kill him. I told him to write to you and give you his opinions....he's awesome with that stuff. How's it been going anyway? Let us know what the behaviorist says...I'd be really curious so that we could use some of the ideas if it becomes necessary.

[wolf_Q]

Originally posted by sasvermont
I know someone who puts an Elizabethian collar on their dog for the walk, so it can't pick up objects to eat.

A muzzle? Well, that too would work.

I think Kia has developed a habit and hopefully you can break her of it.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Huh...when Nebo had that giant Elizabethan collar on him, it didn't stop him from eating stuff AT ALL. Actually it made it worse....he'd have his head on the ground I could never tell if he had anything in his mouth or not! lol

Nebo doesn't like to give up stuff either. I've tried teaching him give, and doing the treat thing, etc. He's stubborn, but never aggressive with it. I have dug just about anything and EVERYTHING out of his mouth and he's never bit at me (although chewed on my fingers in the process of course, lol). Some toys he is great with the "give" command, and others he is not. But if I catch him eating something he's not supposed to, he'll gobble it up as fast as possible and run off to hide! I've never dared take anything out of Smokey's mouth.......he'd bite my hand off! Reggie isn't bad though.

I hope the behaviorist will help beautiful Kia! We know she's not mean....she just doesn't like to give up her "treasures" to mommy! Good luck!

[mommyofotis]

Hi, I used to have a real problem with Otis picking things up on our walks. He would have mouthfulls of kleenex, coffee cups, basically anything that he could find - he finally learned "Leave It!" just this summer and that is working wonderfully at the moment - he's a golden so will basically do anything for a dog biscuit. This is just a shot in the dark but it could be that Kia simply isn't that food motivated...maybe there is something else (a favorite toy?) that you could use to teach her the "leave that nasty things where it is" command?? Good luck!! She's a beautiful dog!