In Defense of Aggressive Dogs...

[Giselle]

So, I will let the other thread die a natural thread. But I seem to have picked up a very negative and destructive attitude towards "aggressive dogs". As the owner of an aggressive dog and as I have dedicated my life to animal behavior, I feel I must defend aggressive dogs for the marvelously complex creatures they really are. I often cringe when I see the "All aggressive dogs must be euthanized!" statements. I cringe because it hurts and it's a completely asinine statement to make. Before you judge and exclaim, unequivocally and without exception that an aggressive dog MUST be killed, consider this:

First: What is an aggressive dog? People overuse this term TOO much. One must understand that there is a distinction between reactive dogs and aggressive dogs. And if you can't tell the distinction or it is not clear, please, do NOT suggest or endorse euthanasia.

Second: How much of the dog's behavior is inherited or biological? If you cannot determine this, do not suggest or endorse euthanasia. Do you know if the dog has neurotransmitter deficiencies? Do you know if the dog has a health issue, such as a brain tumor or seizures? Hormonal imbalance? Most of the physical causes that exacerbate aggression can be managed. Aggression is an illness of the mind. Too much aggression is abnormal and dysfunctional. So, like a physical illness, we seek to manage aggression - not eliminate the animals that display such behaviors.

Third: Is there really such thing as "unprovoked" aggression? Most dog owners have inadequate knowledge of dog body language. Additionally, most people believe there must be a specific, tangible "provocation" to initiate an aggressive attack. And when they miss the transmission of body language leading up to the attack, they assume an attack is "unprovoked" - when, in fact, it CLEARLY has a cause. There are *extremely* few and *extremely* rare cases in which a dog actually has unprovoked aggression. People, we need to remember that "unprovoked" means absolutely no cause at all - in other words, a dog who LITERALLY flies off the handle at random times of the day toward random people in random situations. But if there's even the slightest rhyme or rhythm to a dog's aggression, then the attacks DO have a cause and DO have provocation and DO have a trigger/stimulus.

So what am I trying to say? Before you make a blanket statement that "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized", consider, just for a moment, that, perhaps, there is more to the issue than meets the eye. And consider, for just a minute, that, perhaps, the dog deserves more than derision and euthanasia.

--- Alright. Off my soap box. I've just really really had it with these blanket statements regarding aggressive dogs.----

[K9soul]

Good post Sophie. I too have a dog that shows reactive aggression in certain situations (Tasha), only if she feels trapped, and in my opinion, it is very mild. The main thing I have to worry about with her is when I am out walking on a leash and someone passes us the opposite way, particularly a man, Tasha will try to nip their heels as they go by us with her head lowered and hackles up. She also will bark/growl/hackles around strangers but as long as she is not leashed or trapped she will just keep out of reach and bark until they leave or sit down or settle.

She started showing this fear/mistrust of people outside her 'pack' at 5 months or so old. I had a consult with a behaviorist who felt she is really a good dog and watched her behavior melt away to puppyish curiosity when he laid on the floor and showed no threat to her. How many people would label her dominant? It couldn't be farther from the truth. Tail is tucked, body hunched down to make herself smaller, etc.

I took her to obedience classes for socialization. She got used to the people in the class and relaxed around them and had no problem, but would still react to strangers, mostly men who are the scariest. She's also always gotten along pretty well with other dogs.

So I did a lot of work with her, perfected her off-leash heeling. She is so, SO good. But when I go trail walking in an area with people, I put a basket muzzle on her. It's very light, plastic and doesn't bother her, and if a jogger suddenly runs by us and she tries to nip his heels, I won't have an incident on my hands, though generally I can sense her tension, have her sit, etc. if someone goes by us. There are always times of surprise though, I can't control someone's kid racing up to us for example, so I take the better-safe-than-sorry route to assure her teeth cannot so much as give a bruise or nick.

I'm sharing this to just show another example of what people may blanket under the term aggression as well.

And here is an older (bad quality) video I took to show Tasha's work in off-leash heel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XuBzP7fL7o
(and she was chubby then! I hadn't improved her diet as much yet )

[Daisy and Delilah]

Giselle and Jess:

As long as I've been on this board, I have considered myself fortunate to be among some incredible people. Both of you epitomize that type of people. The knowledge and eloquence you both have is unparalleled.

Thanks to both of you for always being the voice of reason. Both of your comments are so well done. I feel blessed to have such information available to me.

[chocolatepuppy]

There are *extremely* few and *extremely* rare cases in which a dog actually has unprovoked aggression.

Giselle, I really believe that to be true. I wonder how many dogs lose their lives due to being a misunderstood attack? Your post is very educational.
I think a lot of dogs labeled 'aggressive' are most likely showing what is considered normal dog behavior. Behavior that can be managed with training.

[kokopup]

I have had some experience with aggressive dogs and irresponsible owners and when the two get together you have disaster. I have a
recent example. I had a renting neighbor that felt that she MUST have a dog or dogs for her kids. This was a woman that had lost custody of her kids because of drug use. The kids came to visit her on a weekly or every other week. First she had two unaggressive dogs that she kept in a small fenced area, about 10x10. She never went in the fenced area and just poured food and water through the fence. These poor dogs walked in their own poop all day. They never had fresh water. She would go off for days at a time and leave them unfed or watered. If I had not intervened on several occasions the dogs would have died. I called the authorities on several occasions and she was only warned. She then decided to get a Pit Bull. The dog was great with the kids when they were there but on several occasions The kids would get occupied with being kids and the dog would take off a do what ever. It went to my mother-in-law's and came after her. She used to walk to my house through the wooded trails that I had built but became afraid to even get out of her house. It came to my property and attacked me on two occasions. The final blow was it going to another neighbors and killing two of their goats. I live on 20 acres and all my neighbors live
on acreage. We should not live in fear that another neighbor will have
a dog that she will let run unattended. An unattended aggressive dog
at that.

The problem dog became history when another neighbor bought the
property just so he could evict her. That is how I ended up with Rascal my cat. When she moved out she left everything behind and I mean everything. The Neighbor that bought
the property , did it to protect his grandkids that lived through the woods from her
rental property.

What do you do with this dog? Socialize it? There is no defense for this aggressive dog. My mother-in-law did not provoke it, she lives a block away. I did not provoke it, and I'm almost positive the goats did not provoke it. The owner did nothing. She did not get this dog for any other reason than to have it for her kids when they came to visit. She was like a lot of RED NECKS , she had to have a Pit Bull and of course either put it in a small fence or put it on a chain.

There are people that should not have any living thing under their care,
animal or child.

[Twisterdog]

An aggressive or reactive dog, paired with a knowledgable, responsible owner willing to be realistic and proactive, is certainly a manageable, even fruitful, relationship.

However, an naturally aggresive or reactive dog, paired with an ignorant, "macho" owner who finds the behavior "cool" and encourages it, is a recipe for disaster.

Therein lies the entire difference.

I suppose Pepper would be defined as an "aggresive" dog. She hates children isn't crazy about men. She has been known to bite the shoe of a young or male houseguest. However, she is a thirteen year old, mostly toothless, chihuahua/smooth fox cross. Not exactly a threat. I simply pick her up and put her in the bedroom.

As far as the "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized" statement ... I don't think anyone said or meant that. I said something to the effect of IF your dogs are truly aggresive, and IF they attack someone, they WILL be euthanized. I don't think anyone is or was making the gross generalization that "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized", simply trying to get across the fact that dogs that DO bite are killed.

[lizbud]

An aggressive or reactive dog, paired with a knowledgable, responsible owner willing to be realistic and proactive, is certainly a manageable, even fruitful, relationship.

However, an naturally aggresive or reactive dog, paired with an ignorant, "macho" owner who finds the behavior "cool" and encourages it, is a recipe for disaster.

Therein lies the entire difference.

As far as the "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized" statement ... I don't think anyone said or meant that. I said something to the effect of IF your dogs are truly aggresive, and IF they attack someone, they WILL be euthanized. I don't think anyone is or was making the gross generalization that "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized", simply trying to get across the fact that dogs that DO bite are killed.

I agree 100%.

[Casper]

I agree with all that has been said 100% and can only hope that everyone is able to see this.

Ethan is a reactive dog and we have been through so much with the bugger. He pushed us on the edge of our breaking point years ago, but sticking through it with him has opened my eyes to the bigger picture.

Thanks for bringing this up. :-)

[cali]

great post, as someone who has owned several "aggressive" dogs I am sick and tired of people telling me my dogs would be better off dead. people who have NEVER met my dogs. Rusty is aggressive toward male dogs that share "his" property..you have no idea how many dozens of people concluded that this means he should be dead. I could not believe those people, why in heavens name would killing him be a better solution to..oh I dunno..finding a home where he would not live with other males. like..duuuhhh! or Happy, she is dog aggressive(fear) and used to be child aggressive(fear)..that doesnt mean she should have been dead. fear can be worked through, look at her now, she ADORES kids and has helped many children over their fear of dogs, and she has made tremendous progress when it comes to other dogs.

or how about dogs at the kennel I work at. CJ(American Bulldog) was taken to the vet to be put down for aggression by his previous owner, the vet looked at the dog and said "bullsh*t" and rehomed him instead. his new owners have worked with him, CJ now runs with the little dogs at the kennel, and wants nothing more then to cuddle with everyone he meets. Bella was abandoned at the kennel for aggression, Bella is the sweetest dog ever and was adopted by one of the employee's. does she has issues? yes, but her new owner is working through it.

what pisses me off to no end is people who dont tolerate growling. why? because these same people are the ones yelling that their dogs bit without warning. well DUH! you taught your dog that giving a warning is completly unacceptable! that is not the dogs fault thats the owners stupidity.

[Giselle]

Twister, in no way was I directing this thread towards you. I was replying in response to blanket statements such as this:

If I had a human agressive dog it would be put down in a instant no and if's or buts.

Sorry, but my real life is not all back and white. The "if's and's or but's" are what make behavior so complex and make compassion/understanding so vital to the dog-human relationship. The statement insinuates that, if a dog displayed "human aggression", the dog would not be helped and would be destroyed immediately. Those are the comments to which I wrote this thread.

[buttercup132]

Well since that was my quote I guess this thread was directed at me.

As far as the "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized" statement ... I don't think anyone said or meant that. I said something to the effect of IF your dogs are truly aggresive, and IF they attack someone, they WILL be euthanized. I don't think anyone is or was making the gross generalization that "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized", simply trying to get across the fact that dogs that DO bite are killed

And that is exactly what I ment by it.
I do not classify a dog that is a fear biter,DA or anything like that to be agressive and need to be put down.
Would a fear BITER attack someone? Not likely..

Someone said that they got attacked by a dog and they didn't provoke it at all then that dog imo should be put down.
I know it's rare for a dog to be HA but it's not impossible and with all the inbreeding, crappy breeders, and irresponsible owners now a days it's becoming less rare.

[Shelteez2]

Third: Is there really such thing as "unprovoked" aggression? Most dog owners have inadequate knowledge of dog body language. Additionally, most people believe there must be a specific, tangible "provocation" to initiate an aggressive attack. And when they miss the transmission of body language leading up to the attack, they assume an attack is "unprovoked" - when, in fact, it CLEARLY has a cause. There are *extremely* few and *extremely* rare cases in which a dog actually has unprovoked aggression. People, we need to remember that "unprovoked" means absolutely no cause at all - in other words, a dog who LITERALLY flies off the handle at random times of the day toward random people in random situations. But if there's even the slightest rhyme or rhythm to a dog's aggression, then the attacks DO have a cause and DO have provocation and DO have a trigger/stimulus.

So what am I trying to say? Before you make a blanket statement that "all aggressive dogs should be euthanized", consider, just for a moment, that, perhaps, there is more to the issue than meets the eye. And consider, for just a minute, that, perhaps, the dog deserves more than derision and euthanasia.

--- Alright. Off my soap box. I've just really really had it with these blanket statements regarding aggressive dogs.----

I just wanted to quote this paragraph again as it is what I was thinking when the whole other thread was going on. I didn't want to add to what that thread was becoming though.

I think probably 99% of "unprovoked" attacks were given clear (to a dog) warning signals that it was about to happen. So many of a dog's signals are so subtle that they go missed by many.

I applaud your post Sophie. I too have a dog with aggression issues. And he too is managed to the best of my abilities. I think a lot of people could learn a lot about dog behavior and training by reading your posts.

Well since that was my quote I guess this thread was directed at me.



And that is exactly what I ment by it.
I do not classify a dog that is a fear biter,DA or anything like that to be agressive and need to be put down.
Would a fear BITER attack someone? Not likely..

Someone said that they got attacked by a dog and they didn't provoke it at all then that dog imo should be put down.
I know it's rare for a dog to be HA but it's not impossible and with all the inbreeding, crappy breeders, and irresponsible owners now a days it's becoming less rare.

I think the problem in understanding here is what you define as provoking a dog. A fear biter could and would absolutely attack somebody if that somebody didn't realize what they were doing was sending the dog into a fearful state. And don't think that all fearful dogs will tuck tails, duck heads, and crouch. Some have a very low threshold and will go from looking away from what scares them to attacking before it can get them.

[buttercup132]

I mean like a person just walking by and your dog attacks them, that kind of situation.
Or if the dog was going after like friends and family that were over again if they were just sitting there not even touching the dog.

[IRescue452]

Most aggressive dogs can be fit into a situation where there aggression can be controlled. Few need to be euthanized straight out. However, in the world we live in, shelters and rescues can expect to be sued even if they placed the dog with somebody willing and capable of working with aggressive dogs should that person be bitten.

[k9krazee]

Thank you. Said much better than I could have ever, Sophie. Good thread.