I need help, please, with (I think) aggressive behaviour. UPDATE.

[Sevaede]

Soni (neutered male) is a one year old tuxedo cat. We have had him since July 15, 2005. Isis is a (female) one year old Siamese/Ragdoll. We've had her since September 8, 2005.

They have spent their whole lives together. They have gotten along BEAUTIFULLY ever since their first encounter. Isis is pretty aloof towards all humans (except me) but is EXTREMELY mothering and loving towards every other creature (kittens, puppies, etc). Soni is wary, for a few minutes, around new cats but he LOVES hoomans. Soni likes to play and be rough and tumble. Isis enjoys company and will even tolerate mild horse play but she would rather cuddle and is not fond of heavy horse play.

The behaviour started some time in January. Soni has taken a liking to chasing Isis down, grabbing her by the back of the neck, mounting and trying to do his thing, and dragging her around the house, while bunny kicking, etc. and will NOT give her a chance to get away (and if she does, he just goes after her again) or defend herself.

I am at a loss as for what to do next. I don't know if he is being aggressive or if he is just too rough and/or doesn't know his strength/what he's doing. Also, he doesn't seem to have anything wrong physically.

This behaviour needs to stop as it is causing marks and pain for my girl. I stop each and every attempt that I am around to witness (sometimes having to physically remove him from, probably cause he doesn't see me approach, but he doesnt protest) by either making a loud noise, clapping my hands, smacking my hand down on a piece of furniture or wood, squirt with water bottles, etc. It works for a little while but usually he is right back to doing it and I have to follow him around the house or seclude Isis. I will do those, gladly, but I would like those to be last resorts as it is not something they enjoy. Troy and I are frustrated but not giving up!

Do you think the behaviour is aggressive or not? What can I do to curb this behaviour either way? Do you think he's just overzealous and I should get some Feliway diffusers?

UPDATE: I know Isis needs to be spayed and it will get done. But other things have happened in the course of time that have been the reasons for delay. Such as our recent relocating so we can find another vet (Most of the vets in town require different sets of vaccinations and I don't want to get them at the one we've been using because the next one is probably going to require something different such as bordatella.). ALSO, their vet was booked SOLID through all of may and part of june (which has happened frequently and was aggravating when Soni got hurt that they wouldn't even squeeze him in). It's not so much money it is just difficult to GET there because they are difficult to get an appt with in the first place and their hours are the same as Troys work hours and we only have the one car. It is a big time stresser for her, as well (she doesn't do well with being handled). Those are just a few reasons. I promise it was never our intentions for her to go this long without being spayed!

However, this behaviour goes on ALL the time not just for one week out of three months. This is an ongoing daily behaviour and has been ever since before either were sexually mature. Sometimes I think he is just, for a lack of a better phrase, playing but doesn't know his own strength. Isis is SUPER submissive, as well. I have to put Spanky (Chihuahua) in a different room than her. Spanky will just bite Isis and mount her (playfully, I believe) and Isis won't do anything. Isis just prefers to lay around and sleep.

In any case, thank you all very much. I really appreciate the advice and help you gave. It's good to know that I can count on someone to care.

[dionne]

i think you need to get isis fixed. it may be because shes not, shes emitting a hormone that makes him go nuts like that. i'd say shake a can of pennies at him, but that would involve you scaring isis as well...hmm...yeah, like i said, get her fixed. look into places, i know there are ones EVERYWHERE that do it for free. if you move back here and she's still not fixed, i know of a place that helps with that, here.

[catfamily]

That poor girl.She needs to be fixed ASAP.She'll be scared forever if you don't.They are so much like humans.I can't believe how much Vet's charge for getting your cat fixed.It's rediculous.But if you cannot find someone who will do it for free,call a vet and tell them the story and they may do it for you.Sometimes they need to here a story to do it for free.Tell them it's worse than what YOU see.

[Catty1]

Try these, I hope some are near you. (There is a mobile one, but don't know if it is listed here)

LOUISIANA
Animal Welfare Inc
PO Box 4797
Shreveport LA 71134
318-221-0053
www.animalwelfareinc.org
Provides a discount for s/n for pets of residents with low income.

Lafayette Animal Aid
Lafayette LA
337-232-3089
Provides a small discount for s/n for pets of residents with low income.

Spay/Neuter Intervention Program (SNIP)
St. Bernard Parish Animal Shelter
115 W. Agriculture Road
Chalmette, LA 70043
504-278-1535
www.sbanimal.homestead.com
Free spay/neuter of cats and dogs brought by retired residents and by people on any type of public assistance. Low cost spay/neuter for cats and dogs for everyone else.

Jefferson SPCA
1 Humane Way
Harahan, LA 70123
504-733-PETS
www.jspca.org web site
For anyone in the community, Jefferson SPCA provides discount certificates for cat and dog spay/neuter with participating veterinarians. Serves Jefferson, Orleans, St. Tammany, St. Charles, St. Bernard, and Terrebonne parishes.

Southern Animal Foundation
Spay/Neuter Intervention Program (SNIP)
PO Box 4164
New Orleans, LA 70178
504-861-7729
Mobile clinic that visits sites in Hammond, St. Charles, Slidell, New Orleans, Jefferson, Mandeville, Plaquemines, Amie, Abita Springs, and St. Bernard.

Louisiana SPCA Feral Cat Initiative
New Orleans LA
Web www.la-spca.org
For feral cats residing in Orleans Parish. Also check the web site for their low cost s/n for tame cats and dogs.

***********************************************

The LA/SPCA is also participating in a voucher program for spaying and neutering in the state, sponsored by a number of organizations and coordinated by Spay Louisiana, which has set a target of 8090 surgeries per year for each of the next two years. The LA/SPCA has had a trap, neuter, and release program (TNR) since 1999, and is cooperating on "Feline Frenzy," an attempt to spay and neuter 1000 feral cats during a two-week period in late May, and related work.
**********************************************

[catnapper]

I take it she is not fixed. If she isn't the behavior will escalate. This is what happened to Pouncer and Abby. He was fixed long before we got Abby and was still affected by her sexual maturity. They used to cuddle together and he would groom her, etc. Ahhhhh, such kitty bliss! Then she was ready to go into heat and for a few weeks before she started, he started to attack her. It was AWFUL! I already had the appointment ot be spayed and couldn't get an earlier date so I had to constantly back him off of her.

She came home and he STILL attacked her since the hormones were still in her body. By the time the hormones completely went away. it was a pattern between the two that took a year and half to break. He approaches. She doesn't trust him. He wants to simply say "hi" and she screams her head off like he's about to murder her. She swats, then runs. He thinks "hey, she wants to play!" and takes off after her, with her still screaming murder. Oh what joy, what fun!

I've noticed this summer that the game has slowly gotten better and Abby is actually starting to trust him again. I never thought that would actually happen but it is.

Get Isis spayed ASAP!!!

[Sevaede]

updated in topic space.

[rg_girlca]

Since Isis is very submissive and just likes to lay around and sleep, then I would keep her in a separate room until you can get her fixed. Poor thing having to endure Soni's attacks must be so stressful for her and for you also.

Good luck and I pray that you are able to get an appointment for her soon.

((((((HUGS))))))

[Sevaede]

In some ways, wouldn't that be mean for both of them? I mean, they thoroughly enjoy each other when he is not being.. um, studly. They've spent their whole lives together, love each others (and most other cats) presence/attention/company, and are pretty much inseperable except for that one thing. I *WILL* do it, I just don't want either to think they are alone or abandoned or anything.

[catnapper]

I honestly do think it stems from not being spayed. Seriously, the tension between Pouncer and Abby started long before she actually started a heat cycle. She was spayed before her first heat (but I swear given a few more days and she would have gone into heat! ) She was giving off hormone that he was reacting to and even after she was spayed, the behavior stuck as a "game" for him.

What I did was just keep them apart as best as possible. If I saw him starting a sneak attack on her, I yelled out "Don't even THINK about it!" and he would either stop dead in his tracks or continue on his attack and I'd have to rescue a screaming Abby.

Then, after a year of this behavior, I noticed SHE would BAIT Pouncer. When he'd take the bait, she'd start screaming, I'd rescue her, and all was good again. You know what? Ever since I noticed that, I began to ignore her reactions to him. I didn't rescue her. I didn't tell him to leave her alone. And guess what? The behavior has dramatically decreased! She realized she wasn't going to get my sympathy any longer and she stopped baiting him.

[catfamily]

I honestly do think it stems from not being spayed. Seriously, the tension between Pouncer and Abby started long before she actually started a heat cycle. She was spayed before her first heat (but I swear given a few more days and she would have gone into heat! ) She was giving off hormone that he was reacting to and even after she was spayed, the behavior stuck as a "game" for him.

What I did was just keep them apart as best as possible. If I saw him starting a sneak attack on her, I yelled out "Don't even THINK about it!" and he would either stop dead in his tracks or continue on his attack and I'd have to rescue a screaming Abby.

Then, after a year of this behavior, I noticed SHE would BAIT Pouncer. When he'd take the bait, she'd start screaming, I'd rescue her, and all was good again. You know what? Ever since I noticed that, I began to ignore her reactions to him. I didn't rescue her. I didn't tell him to leave her alone. And guess what? The behavior has dramatically decreased! She realized she wasn't going to get my sympathy any longer and she stopped baiting him.

This advice accuaully will help me and Mike with OUR crew

[catnapper]

This advice accuaully will help me and Mike with OUR crew

LOL... I didn't say it was foolproof because they certainly still go at each other. She was screaming her head off last night "trapped" under the bed. Now I KNOW Pouncer can get under the bed with her but its more fun to run around the perimeter of the bed hissing and swatting at her!

but it DOES seem to be working. She's starting to trust Pouncer again. I doubt they'll ever go back to cuddling and grooming each other, but now she can be on the same surface as Pouncer without a look of fear in her eyes. Here she is last week... actually giving the basket headbumpies... the very basket Pouncer is sitting in!



edit: technically she's not on the same surface as Pouncer... he's on a pile of clothes. LOL I've often said in my "who's the brown tabby" threads that you could always tell Abby because she'll be on a completely different surface than Pouncer or separated by at least 2 other cats.

[KitCat]

When the boy cat attacks the girl confine him to another room. That's all you can do untill she's fixed.

[rg_girlca]

When the boy cat attacks the girl confine him to another room.

I was just going to say the same thing. Since it seems to make you uncomfortable putting Isis alone in the room. Maybe you can just do this when no one is home, so she doesn't have to endure his attacks alone and then let her back out while you are home to keep an eye on things.

When I was having problems with my boys, the one that was causing the problem at the time, got scolded and was put alone in a closed room for a few hours. They learned after a while to settle down. I still have a few incidents now and then, but not like I use too, especially since the "Peacekeeper" came into the house.

[Sevaede]

Heh, thanks everyone! All your replies are greatly appreciated!

That is what everyone is pretty much in agreement on (including myself aka that person in De Nile ).

I will be seperating them for the time being and then, after she's spayed, maybe they'll learn to get along again. I'll have to set aside a couple of hours each day to cuddle and play with each of them (as we all usually hang out and play at the same/most of the time) when I'm not doing anything that would be unagreeable to the particular situation (such as any sort of cleaning beyond laundry and dishes)! Is there any other things that I can do to divy up time and to make sure neither feels left out?

I went to a local pet store t o see if I could find some Feliway for the mean time. I could not.

It is a big time stresser for Isis when she goes to the vet and so we would both love to minimize the time for her. I mean, we're talking about big hair loss and hardly-can-get-em-out-of-their-carrier). I know *how* (have been doing it for a couple years now with the parents and vets okays) to give her vaccinations I just don't know how to get her to let me do them. Any ideas? I would like to do this so her vet visits will go down from 4 to 2 (for her sake).

[Catty1]

Where I live, Feliway is only available from vets, as it is a pheromone spray.

Someone also suggested Bach flower remedies, which you can find at a health store.

But since Feliway has the actual cat hormone in it - the one that is released when they give head bumpies(the hormones are released in front of the ears), I think that might be the one to go for.

Good luck!