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Thread: Help with Potty Training

  1. #1
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    Help with Potty Training

    I need help potty training Keegan.
    She gets that she has to poop outside and we have only had one accident with that since the beginning of Sept. Yet she doesn't get that she has to pee outside. She barks at night when she is in her crate to tell me she needs out, but whenever she is in the house and she has to go she just squats and goes.
    I must stress that I do not rub her nose in it, b/c I know that correction is old and no longer used. So I don't think it is out of fear.
    Today she was outside for about 20 min and was in the house less than 5 min and peed on the rug.
    My neighbor has a golden and a pom and she said that for both of them they "got" it at about 5 mos. But I know other people can have them trained in just a few weeks. I don't know what I am doing wrong. And its not that I am missing her signals all the time either, when I see her sniffin I take her out, but other times she will be walking by me and boom there is a puddle.
    Thanks!
    Keeganhttp://www.dogster.com/dogs/256612 9/28/2001 to June 9, 2012
    Kylie http://www.catster.com/cats/256617 (June 2000 to 5/19/2012)
    Kloe http://www.catster.com/cats/256619
    "we as American's have forgotten we can agree to disagree"
    Kylie the Queen, Keegan the Princess, entertained by Kloe the court Jester
    Godspeed Phred and Gini you will be missed more than you ever know..

  2. #2
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    Potty training....Oh will it ever end? When she pees in the house and you clean it up, what do you use? It could be that she smells her previous booboos and thinks she should pee there. I used some stuff called Nature's Miracle that I got at PetCo. It "supposedly" removed the odor from the carpet so they wouldn't keep returning to the same spot. I don't know if it did. I couldn't smell anything but how would I know if Duncan can? He learned very quick. We went out alot and often. I always said "do you have to go outside?" rather than "let's go outside" which I reserved for walks. Also, when he was peeing, I repeated "Hurry up" over and over again. Now he's at the point where if I say Hurry up, he'll pee immediately! It works well, as long as I don't tell my boyfriend to Hurry up! in the house while Duncan is within earshot!
    How old is Keegan? She'll get it! Don't fret! Another thing, always go out the same door to pee. Keep a close eye on her inside so you can catch her "in the act", then quickly pick her up and take her out. For months I didn't let Duncan go in another room alone because I didn't know for sure if he had it. I followed him around the house like a nut! I even took him in the bathroom with me in the morning so he wouldn't be in the living room peeing. Now he thinks he has to go with me all the time!
    I don't know if this helps. You probably already know all this but...Good Luck! Be grateful that she has 1/2 of it down. #1 is easier to clean up!


  3. #3
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    Staci, Bella too got the idea about poop much quicker than about peeing. When she did pee in the house it didn't seem to be in the same place so I don't think it was really a particular smell that she was "hooked" on. We just always gave her a big NO and then took her right outside which I am sure you are doing. Sometimes it just takes a while for it to "click." Then after she had fully mastered that, she used to do what we called little "excitement pees." They would occur when company would come and she would be so excited to see them that a little spritz would come out. That has stopped too. Now the only time she has an "excitement pee" is when we arrive at the groomer's. Fortunately they tell me that she is not the only one who does this.

  4. #4
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    Staci, It already sounds like you already know that Keegan really doesn't know outside is for pee. I know you are crate training but my question is how? Anyone who crate trains a puppy correctly should have a completely potty trained pup by 16 weeks at the latest. Most people do not crate train properly because they feel it is NOT FAIR to the pup to be in the crate EVEN WHEN YOUR HOME! Here's my take on it.....

    Until the pup PROVES to me that they can potty outside successfully they do NOT get run of the house! When someone comes to me and says they are having problems with the dog going potty in the house then I immediately look to how they crate train.

    Proper crate training will endear the dog to the crate and will make it feel like a safe haven and a place of comfort and security and not a place of dread and I can't wait to get out of here feeling!

    A new puppy should be taken out even in the middle of the night to piddle every two to three hours. When you open the crate door, IMMEDIATELY, with no stops in between the pup is taken outside. You are to go outside with her and take her to the location in your yard that you want her to piddle. Some people who have fenced in yards do not see the point in going out too, especially if it is cold out but this is very important in the training process. Give the command "GO POTTY" over and over again until she squats and goes. Then give her the biggest fuss and praise party you can to let her know she did good! If she does not potty within 3 or 4 minutes, take her back into the house and PROMPTLY put her in her crate again. In about 5 minutes or so you can repeat the procedure with giving her the Command "GO POTTY" and making the fuss if she does. If not within 3 or 4 minutes do this again and continue until she gets the message. NEVER let her run around the house if she has not pottied. She is always to go back into the crate!

    If she does go potty outside then you can bring her into the house and let her roam and play outside the crate. However, if she plays to the point of getting tired and falls asleep, then you should pick her up and put her in the crate again. She may wake up when you lift her but soothe her with soft whispers and put her in the crate anyway. If she stays awake (she may of just taken a 2 second puppy power nap) then take her outside to potty. When she awakes the first thing she will need to do is potty again.

    Don't think of the crate as a confinement for the dog. Think of it as a training tool. If you NEVER let her have free roam of the house without going Potty first, Giving her the "GO POTTY" command and making a big fuss over her, she will soon learn "HEY mom likes it when I piddle out here but not in the house"!

    Final thought! Even after you think she has it down she may have an ACCIDENT. You are right not to rub her nose in it. However, you are able to correct her from the action if you catch her in the act! Startle her and make a displeasing sound such as "KEEGAN STOP!!" SHAME ON YOU. HOW COULD YOU DO THIS???? as you pick her up and scoot her little butt out the front door. Once she is outside give her the "GO POTTY" command again. Chances are she will look at you like your a nut once she is outside and won't have to potty again so after a few minutes bring her back into the house but put her in the crate. You can hug her and give her comfort when you bring her back in but don't give her free reign of the house again until she successfully potties outside.

    NOTE: If you don't catch her in the act then just clean it up and forget about it!

    Happy Training!

  5. #5
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    give her a command to go peeing or pooing when she needs to go, like go potty or do your necessities. Don't let her in until she does it, and may be you should go along with her, 'cause my dog, needs to go with someone to go potty. When she's done praise her a lot like crazy so that she gets that she needs to do her business outside rather than inside. You could also take her out about 2 hours after she has eaten all her food, and before she goes to bed. Good luck with your potty training and i hope this advice helps you and that your dog learns to go potty outside!!
    Puppies are a bundle of joy, dogs, are life's happiness.

  6. #6
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    Oh boy.......I went through this several months ago with a 3 year old dog that I adopted in early July. She had never been house broken (don't know why).

    It took probably 3 months to get her trained all the way!
    For awhile, I was posting something almost daily on Pet Talk- it was very frustrating! There are a lot of good people here with helpful advice.

    What worked for me was first of all to have her on a leash in the house at all times, and make her always be where I could see her. That way she could not go without me seeing her. It seems she did not get the 'connection' unless I actually caught her in the act........then I would take her IMEDIATELY outside and tell her to go potty. When she finally went on command, I praised her a lot. once I finally caught her and took her outside, she was fine. Up until that point, just taking her outside and waiting was NOT enough for her.

    And oh, the Natures Mirracle worked well for me.

    Good luck!

  7. #7
    I don't see the problem with rubbing their noses..not in it, but close? Thats how I trained Jo to go outside..my obediance trainer told me to do this. Very soon she was potty trained..can someone tell me why it isn't good??



    My babies: Josie, Zeke, Kiba, Shadow (AKA Butter)

  8. #8
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    The problem is...Why are you doing it????????

    As we have already discussed, last night , dog poo is not a disgusting mess to another dog. By forcing her face near the mess all you are doing is showing her where she made a mess. This is pointless because she already knows that! You are telling her off at the same time so the only connection the dog can possibly make is that you get excited when she sniffs at her own mess. You are correcting (a very loose definition of the term) her looking at the mess, not doing the mess.

    If you catch her DOING the mess - she will connect your reaction to her action.
    By pushing her nose into liquid or solid mess (I know you didn't actually do this) you also risk the dog inhaling matter that could do damage to their respitory system. Especially in puppies that have not been through a full worming course you are also going to reinfect them with any parasite they are carrying.

    From a training point of view you are also making your hand on the top of her head a threatening object.

    It is a pointless excersise and it was not this that house trained your dog - it was the other things that you did, I promise you.

  9. #9
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    Sorry - can I also make the point that obedience trainers are not always behaviourists or psychologists. They can be great at what they do but usually are working to a system that was learned a while ago and if things are already troubled with the dog or start to go wrong they are not always the people to ask. In the same way your vet will usually know little about behaviour.

    Don't get me wrong - I couldn't teach an obedience class, an agility class or operate on a pregnant bitch. Horses for courses, as they say.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by slleipnir
    I don't see the problem with rubbing their noses..not in it, but close? Thats how I trained Jo to go outside..my obediance trainer told me to do this. Very soon she was potty trained..can someone tell me why it isn't good??
    FIND ANOTHER OBEDIENCE TRAINER!!!!

    From an obedience training standpoint I don't know anybody that I work with the accepts the rubbing their noses in it theory! Unless the dog is caught in the act it is useless to do anything except clean the mess up. If your obedience trainer doesn't know this then they need to find another line of work or hobby! Your dogs well being comes from it knowing you are the giver of all good things. You show displeasure if the dog is caught in the act with a disapproving sound and taking the dog outside so it can associate the action with why you are displeased. Knowing you are displeased should be enough "punishment" for the crime! Dogs want to please you and will work to determine why you are not happy with something they did but you also need to understand they can't remember the action you are not happy with actually happened 5 minutes ago.

  11. #11
    Oook..I was just wondering.
    And it's not really just "putting her nose in it", cause it's not. I don't put her nose 'in' it. I show her it (her nose is a respectful distance) and say, No. Then I put her outside. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but if she starts using outside very soon, doesn't that mean it works?? Obediance trainers would obviously know behaviour, thats what they teach you. The whole thing with it, is showing her that "hey when you do this, (then putting her outside) i should do THAT out HERE." She was a pup, and didn't know she wasn't suppost to do this. By showing her that this is were the mess is (like you said) then taking her outside, shows her that the mess belongs outside. It worked, and I didn't shuve her face in the "mess". I didn't "force" her. I would take her to it, and show her, and point to it and say No or whatever then outside. I doubt shes close enough to inhale anything, and besides dogs go out and sniff other dogs crap all the time.



    My babies: Josie, Zeke, Kiba, Shadow (AKA Butter)

  12. #12
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    I tried to make the point that dogs don't see poo as disgusting, they see it as a message from another dog - she knows where she put her poo so there is no point showing her where she did it.
    She will not connect the fact that it is her poo to the fact that you are un happy UNLESS you catch her in the act of DOING it. There is no way it is possible for her to connect you telling her off while showing her the mess to the act of her making the mess. Dogs quite simply do not work that way.
    She learned the house training because you took her out frequently and praised her when she went in the right place.

    Obedience trainers do not always know about behaviour, as your trainer has proved! They have learned a system of training that works for the majority of animals. If asked, many will tell you that a dog learns because when it does the right thing it is praised and when it does the wrong thing it is punished. Dogs do learn some things in this way but this is not showing any understanding of behaviour. It is retelling what they have been told. Why would the dog want to do it the right way? Why would the dog get it wrong? When is it fair to correct and for what reason? How can you use body language and natural responses to help the dog?
    When a trainer is telling you to house train your dog with the method you used and then manages to convince you that it worked they appear to be very good. They clearly have no understanding of canine psychology or basic behaviour.

  13. #13
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    I think it's gross rubbing the dog's nose on his poo 'cause afterwards the dog smells you and licks you with the same nose and tongue!
    Puppies are a bundle of joy, dogs, are life's happiness.

  14. #14
    Mary, I never had that problem because I DON'T rub her nose IN it.

    Carrie, I think that maybe, just maybe, not all dogs respond the same way. Maybe someone learned a lot about something, and will figure thats always and only how it goes. Maybe there is different ways. I did that also, after (right after she made the mess). I know if you don't then when you show her she will be like what?? why are you doing this?? Maybe the trainer wasn't the smartest person, it was like 3 years ago, I still think she was pretty knowledgable. She worked well with the dogs, and she tought me a lot about training. Enought atleast to help train a friends dog who couldn't take it with no $. I duno, i'm not really smart enough to know who knows what and which way is better for the dog. I'm sure where you were in high school you weren't knowing everything either. I'm REALLY sorry if this sounds rude, but the way your telling me (which i know is only trying to help, and thank you) but it makes me feel really bad about my dog. All I want is to be good to her, and give her the best home. And it seems everything I do with her is wrong, cause you make it out like "oh, never do that! this is proper". I tried, and i was around 15 at the time I got her, I believed that htis trainer knew what she was talking about, i;ve never trained a dog. I believe there is more then the proper way to do things. By the way you explain dogs behavior, someparts, doesn't even sound like Josie, so I think that the right way, isn't always the best, all dogs are different and have different needs. I wish i could be smarter with it, but I don't need to be smart (dog smarts i mean) to love her. And she definitly gets enough. Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't want it to be like the barking thing, it's just my opinion that thats how I feel. I didn't mean it to offend, if it does then I'll stop asking stupid things



    My babies: Josie, Zeke, Kiba, Shadow (AKA Butter)

  15. #15
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    Take it easy, it's nothing to get mad at. Maybe some people do that. I'm not saying that you do that. I might have misunderstood the concept. It's worse, some dogs eat poo. Ringo once ate poo. I was laughing and grossed out at the same time, I didn't let him lick me until afterwards.
    Puppies are a bundle of joy, dogs, are life's happiness.

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