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Thread: My Thought's On Arthur, Also In Original Post About Arthur

  1. #1
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    My Thought's On Arthur, Also In Original Post About Arthur

    I have done a lot of reading and soul searching since Arthur was put down. I have read every post several times. I have very mixed feelings about everything that has happened. Our first rotti was Nikita, we got her from the local shelter, she was roughly 2 years old at that time. Nikita hated other animals. She would try so hard to pull me on leash to get to another dog, it was embarrasing and going to the vets was worse when the waiting room was full. About 1 week after we adopted her I took her to a pet store. At this time I didn't know she was animal aggressive. The girl that worked there also had a rotti. She saw Nikita try to go after another dog that came in the store as well as a big stuffed dog that was sitting near the cash. Nikita tried so hard to kill that stuffed dog. The girl working abruptly told me that my dog should be destryed due to her aggression. I of course said I think not. She told me that if my dog ever went after hers she would kill my dog, that Nikita was not a good dog and i had better take her to the shelter and put her to sleep. At this point my blood pressure was rising quickly...this girl was getting on my nerves, she was one of those opinionated no it alls. I stopped going there!!

    Now I knew we had a problem with our girl and we took every precaution to make sure she would never hurt anyones dog. She was an awesome rotti who loved us, our grandchildren, all people so very much. We knew as long as we had her we would not be able to get a second dog or any other animals but that was okay because we loved her so much and everything else about her was perfect. Had she been aggressive to my grandchildren or people my decision may have been different. Or I would have crated her when need be. She was our baby and the love of my life along with my kids, grandkids and hubby. She was family. Well we had her almost 6 years and during that time she never touched another animal. We just made sure she couldn't. I made sure I had complete control over her on walks because to let anything bad happen would have meant losing my baby. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I likely would not have had Arthur put down but would have tried other things like crating him until I could get profesional help with the aggression, working with him using positive training, or at worse finding a home without other dogs or dogs similar to the type he was aggressive towards. My dogs don't like small dogs but are great with other large breeds.Kiki will not accept another female in the house except for my sons dog. Knowing these things we just work with any issues as best as we can because no way in he** would I put either of my babies down. I guess my only real problem with Arthur being put to sleep is that maybe there was a different way to solve the existing problem. it's too late after the fact. I'm trying to not judge because I feel that is up to God not me. But I do have my own feelings and have expressed them. I'm fairly new here and feel like an outsider still as so many of you have been together for such a long time. I don't want to offend anyone or make enemies here. I enjoy being a part of PT and hope to be here a long time making new friends. It's tough being a newbie in a tight group of people and I thank everyone who has made me feel welcomed here. I guess that's about all I have to say.
    Last edited by RottiMommy49; 12-05-2004 at 12:15 PM.
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  2. #2
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    thanks for posting that Deb.

    ive also had problems with a dog aggressive dog.My RB dal Sheena,she was raised in a loving home,and was raised around other dogs.but around 1 year old she started to turn very aggressive towards other dogs.She' has attacked dogs,one dog even had to get stitches b/c of her. But we kept her,we loved her very much.She wasnt people aggressive,loved kids and new people,wouldnt even try to hurt someone
    i support you 100%,and im sorry that you had to do this to your sweet little boy
    We werent there to experience what really happened at her house,and it could have been worse than how she put it in her other posts.
    Last edited by sammy101; 12-05-2004 at 09:05 PM.

  3. #3
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    We werent there to experience what really happened at her house,and it could have been worse than how she put it in her other posts.
    I totally agree with you on that, we weren't there and really without being there and being terrified and seeing one of your fur kids being mauled would most certainly be at best very very difficult. A famous saying is you really can't know or understand unless you walk in that person's shoes. It's just harder when it involves a life. I'm not trying to make heinz 57 feel any worse than I'm sure she feels. This is just a gut wrenching situation for all of us because of our love for animals and we want to help and protect as many as we can. So many of us are involved in rescue and that makes it even harder on us. We want to save animals not see or hear about putting them down.
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  4. #4
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    I too have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

    I hate seeing dog put down for any reason, and maybe a behaviorist or a new home would have made a difference.

    I also believe that being a good owner means taking responsibilty for your dog, and if that dog has an issue that I myself can not deal with and and would cause me to live in fear, I'm not sure it is fair to pass the problem on to someone else. I like to think in the same situation, I would try to find someone who was expereinced in dog aggresion, who could take the dog in a controled environment and the dog would live happily as an only dog. ( Assuming it was animal aggrresion and I already had others). But sometimes time and resources don't allow that. Unless I saw one of my dogs mauling another of my dogs, I can not tell you how I would react.

    I'm not sure I agree with the way the stiuation as handled ( and that may be in contrast to my orignal posts, as I have had more time to think), but I am trying to be understanding. I don't really think it is up to us to make JC feel better or worse about how the situation was handled. And by that I don't mean we can't or shouldn't share opinions and thoughts, I guess I mean she did what she felt in her heart was the best for her and her family and she has to deal with that.

    I am certainly not tring to offend anyone and I am trying to see both sides of the issue.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by RottiMommy49
    I totally agree with you on that, we weren't there and really without being there and being terrified and seeing one of your fur kids being mauled would most certainly be at best very very difficult. A famous saying is you really can't know or understand unless you walk in that person's shoes. It's just harder when it involves a life. I'm not trying to make heinz 57 feel any worse than I'm sure she feels. This is just a gut wrenching situation for all of us because of our love for animals and we want to help and protect as many as we can. So many of us are involved in rescue and that makes it even harder on us. We want to save animals not see or hear about putting them down.
    Well said

  6. #6
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    If I were to put Simba down because of his aggression at 8 months (He bit my mom twice, and went after a chocolate lab I used to walk the FIRST day we had him) I would have never had the pleasure of owning such a wonderful dog.

    We worked with him over the many years we've had him, and still occasionally he will spout off at new people or dogs, but has since then accepted 2 sister dogs, many other friends/families dogs, as well as the 2-legged type.





    I don't necessarily think that what has happened is right, but we can't really do anything aobut it now, unfortunately.

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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Kfamr
    If I were to put Simba down because of his aggression at 8 months (He bit my mom twice, and went after a chocolate lab I used to walk the FIRST day we had him) I would have never had the pleasure of owning such a wonderful dog.

    And for that reason and many stories like it, is why the more I think about it, the less I agree. The more I think about it, the more I think the decision was made in the heat of the moment, and maybe taking a deep breath would have made a difference.

    At the same time, I also know someone who has an aggressive dog, and knew the dog was agressive. Despite her best efforts to keep her dog away from other dogs, her dog killed another. Stories like that are what force me to try to see things from both sides.

  8. #8
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    I am certainly not tring to offend anyone and I am trying to see both sides of the issue.
    I totally agree with that!

    I think what is bothering me the most is that it seemed Arthur was only agressive to the one dog. Had it been to all the dogs he lived with I would be more apt to think he had wiring problem. Some dogs just don't like a certain dog for whatever reason, size, color, sensing fear, an alfa issue, jealousy, etc. Once tension starts between 2 animals it's going to be harder to stop. I'm sure Arthur looked at Charlie as the dog that stole his food and rotti's don't forget things that we want them to forget. Selective memory!!!!
    Not all people like every person they meet during their lifetime either. Dogs are very much like humans and share most if not all the same feelings and emotions. It happens here, nothing like fighting but Kiki likes to be the center of attention and will push her way past Monty to get it. She is a very jealous little girl but luckily it's not a big issue and there is no fighting between the dogs. Thank God
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  9. #9
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    My one big question here is why is everyone just assuming
    that Arthur was an aggressive dog? The orginal problem was
    posted as a aggression problem with Charlie, not Arthur.

    http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...hlight=charlie

    Some people responded with advice and the subject was just
    dropped. No follow up on trainers help or anything else. I do agree that Arthur had just had enough of Charlie's harrassment.

    When problems like this crop up I believe it's up to the folks
    involved to actively work to find a solution before it ever reaches
    a crisis stage. I keep thinking what will become of Anna now that
    she might probably driven to behave the same way Arthur was
    forced to do. So sad.
    I've Been Boo'd

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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by lizbud
    My one big question here is why is everyone just assuming
    that Arthur was an aggressive dog? The orginal problem was
    posted as a aggression problem with Charlie, not Arthur.

    I'll be honest, Liz. I never saw that orignal thread. I saw two recent where Arthur attacked Charlie. I didn't know the history. That gives me more to think about for sure.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by lizbud
    My one big question here is why is everyone just assuming
    that Arthur was an aggressive dog? The orginal problem was
    posted as a aggression problem with Charlie, not Arthur.

    I'm sorry if I got things wrong. I remember the post about the first attack during feeding time and that Charlie would steel food from Arthur and it resulted in the first fight I heard about. I will have to go back and read the first post again. All I feel for sure is that there was deffinately a problem between Charlie and Arthur. Thanks for bringing up that point.
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  12. #12
    I am going to respond completely different than most of your posts here, but here goes anyway...

    My cousins had a german shepard who became aggressive to their other dog. She had never been aggressive to humans before. That said, they were walking her in a park one day, and out of NO WHERE, she lunged at a man walking by, ( she was leashed), and she bit him, through his shirt and everything. They were completely stunned that it happened, b/c she NEVER showed any aggression to humans before, just toward their other dog. Anyway, the man tried sueing them...and it turned into a big mess. They had her put down as well...they couldn't risk her hurting another human. She is at peace now at the bridge, and her issues that she had are at rest. My cousin misses her and speaks of her with fondness, but it was just something that he felt had to be done, and I stand behind him. Heaven forbid, the dog injured a small child or worse. I would never want to be in that situation, and I feel for anyone who is...

    My point being, I know how hard it was for my cousins to have to deal with putting her down, but they felt it was the right decision...and they have cried over her, as i am sure Arthur's owners have done...and are still doing. Life comes with tough decisions, and I feel that they did what they had to do, and it is done, and i am sure it is hard for them to deal with, but the fact is, I don't think it is anyone's place to comment on whether they made the right decision or not...it is a hard/sticky situation to deal with for the owners of Arthur, and at this time, I feel like only support should be offered, and if your are in disagreement over their decision, remembering that they will read this and may already feel horrible about it all, maybe those that disagree should just refrain from commenting. I am not trying to sound rude, but just trying to put myself in Arthur's owners place...which is somthing that none of us have personally experienced ( owning Arthur)...the decision is made, and what is done is done. (((HUGS))) to you, Heinz 57...you were placed in a hard situation, one that you, personally had to live and deal with, and you did, what you needed to do...i hope your home be a more peaceful place to be now, and I know that Arthur is at peace with his issues that he was dealing with inside, at the Bridge.

    Robyn









  13. #13
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    Robyn

    Speeking for myself I am not trying to make heinz57 feel any worse than she already does. I have expressed some opinions but have also posted that it is not up to me to judge anyone, it's up to God. I'm sure nobody intends to make them feel more sorrow than they already do but once you open a door to something you are going to get responses you want and some you don't. I am just an animal lover and can only imagine what Arthurs parents went through and making a decision to put him down would not have been easy. Watching a dog being attacked by another dog would be devistating. They had a very tough decision to make and made it, the way they saw fit. None of us really know what we would have done under the same circumstances because we weren't the ones dealing with it. My heart breaks for all of them including Arthur and charlie. I have prayed that they can move on and come to terms with all they have been through. I am not judge and jury and don't want to be. I can only try to understand it all and wonder what I would have done and pray I never have to make that decision for that reason. It's just a sad situation all around.
    Nikita Mommy & Daddy Miss You So Much.....Always Will....Look For Cappy Sweetie & Keep Each Other Company. Cappy You Stole So many hearts Sweet Boy. We All Love You & Miss You. Play Hard Sweet Babies.

  14. #14
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    I know you aren't trying to make JC feel bad, and I understand how impassioned Rottie owners feel about their breed. They get such a bad rap anyway.
    I am not sure how I feel on the subject, I wonder if Arthur was blamed b/c he was the bigger dog and Charlie was the smaller of the 2 and unable to defend himself as well as a big dog would.
    My heart breaks for JC and Bella - I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
    I have never had an agressive dog, so that I can't walk in their shoes. I do try to see both sides, but I really don't know how they feel.
    {{hugs to all}}
    Keeganhttp://www.dogster.com/dogs/256612 9/28/2001 to June 9, 2012
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    "we as American's have forgotten we can agree to disagree"
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  15. #15
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    I've been literally sick to my stomach about the whole situation so I don't think I can even say much. I am just utterly devastated. I feel almost like it was my own dog who was put down. I could only briefly scan the threads about it because I was too upset about it. I did catch that he was taken to animal control to be put down and I only hope he wasn't left alone during that

    I have lots of opinions on this, but I guess it is hard for me to say them because it is too late to save him
    Alyson
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