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Thread: Lip Fold Pyoderma?

  1. #1
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    Lip Fold Pyoderma?

    Anyone know anything about Lip Fold Pyoderma or pyroderma? Killian may have the source of his mouth problems!
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  2. #2
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    I'm on the hunt Sue. I hope that means it's better news!

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  3. #3
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    Here's a photo. It's a bacterial skin infection, ususally staph, and is commonly found in hot spot areas. Text info. coming.


    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  4. #4
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    Found it! Hope this posts!! If not, I'll just copy and paste the article.

    2001



    Lip fold pyoderma in Golden


    Question: Dr. Richards:

    I have a 10 year old golden retriever. From time to time over the past 5
    years or so, she's developed a bad, rotten fish type of smell on the outside
    of her mouth, under one of her bottom lips, in the fur area. Her fur in
    that area becomes a little sticky and a little red and seems to bother her a
    little. I usually clean it up with the chlorhexaderm oral solution and put
    some anti-biotic ointment on it and it usually clears up within a few days.

    Any ideas what this could be from? Her teeth are in good shape and she gets
    them brushed every other day or so, so I don't think it's from dental
    disease.

    Thanks. Vanessa


    Answer: Vanessa-

    It sounds like you are describing a problem that is referred to as "lip
    fold pyoderma". This is infection in folds of the lip that usually occurs
    on the lower lips, often right at the point that the upper canine tooth
    touches the skin of the lower lip when the mouth is closed.

    There is no problem with using chlorhexidine gel or benzoyl peroxide
    shampoo to control these infections, if topical treatment will work.
    Sometimes oral antibiotics are necessary to get control of these
    infections. If you find that this problem gets worse over time, or if you
    get tired of treating it intermittently, reconstructive surgery of the
    lower lip (cheiloplasty) will usually resolve the problem and may even be
    less expensive than repeatedly using medications, over time. This is not a
    technically difficult surgery and most general veterinary practices can do
    this. This problem is rarely related to the teeth, other than occurring
    where the upper canines touch the lips in many cases.

    Hope this helps some.

    Mike Richards, DVM
    1/3/2001

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  5. #5
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    Thanks, Sandra! It seems that the skin is ok, just the lips themselves are crusty. To me it seems like there's something going on in that area, though. Is there something called GSD Pyroderma? (not pyoderma)I've inquired on the GSD BB, too, cause I think I read something about that there. I didn't pay attention because I thought it was inside his mouth not outside. We may have hit on something. Or maybe he has both (sigh)!
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  6. #6
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    Sue, have you looked in http://www.vetinfo.com/dogindex.html
    I did see some information on Pyoderma.
    Jackie

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Jackie ]


  7. #7
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    Hi guys. Jackie, that was the site from which I took the first info. I posted. It's a great site! Sue, I DID find info. specifically on GSD pyoderma. I can tell you, being a nurse, that there is no such thing as PYRO-derma. (Pyro being the prefix for hot) I think PYOderma is what you are looking for. Did Killian get diagnosed with this condition? What made you think of it? It certainly does appear to be a lot more easily treated than girardia. Here's the info. I found on GSD pyoderma. (The prefix, pyo, means moist...derma...skin) Pyoderma can occur as a generalized skin infection, or, more specifically, in the lip fold area. It is, in that case, not confined to the "furry area" but actually in the folds of the lip itself. The info. I found on GSD pyoderma seems to be a more generalized skin condition. However, this does not mean that Killian's form of the condition (GSD pyoderma) could not be limited to the mouth and lip area. Hope this helps, and I'm not confusing you!!

    German-Shepherd Pyoderma
    EJ Rosser
    Michigan State Univ Coll Vet Med Dept Small Anim Clin Sci E Lansing,MI 48824 USA
    Compendium on Continuing Education for the Practicing Veterinarian20,7 (JUL 1998) 831

    German shepherd pyoderma (GSP) is a unique, recurrent or refractory deep pyoderma that is characterized by a pruritus (that mean pussy, Sue) condition which may progress to affect multiple regions of the body and become a generalized skin disease. The underlying disease processes that predispose animals to GSP may include flea allergy dermatitis, atopic dermatitis, food allergy, cell-mediated immunodeficiency, or hypothyroidism. GSP may have an inherited component and is occasionally idiopathic (meaning no known cause, Sue) in nature. A recent prospective study evaluated several parameters in 12 patients that were affected with GSP. The results suggested that GSP should be considered a disease caused by multiple underlying conditions rather than a skin disorder caused by a single defect. Management requires a thorough and.systematic approach to the investigation of each patient for the possible triggering disease processes. The specific treatment for each underlying disease identified should be initiated with the objective of resolving the recurrent nature of the deep pyoderma. The initial supportive medical treatment usually requires at least 8 weeks of continuous systemic antibiotic therapy and medicated baths while the clinician attempts to determine each underlying disease process involved in the particular case of GSP

    Give a little more info. if you have it. Killian, I love you!! Aunt Sandra

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: tatsxxx11 ]

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  8. #8
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    Thanks, Sandra and Jackie! I think we really may have something here. Since the day I found him at the shelter, he has been having immune system problems. This could be one more. I read over the "eosinophyllic gingivitis" prognosis and I think that maybe he may have also had this lip fold pyoderma problem, too. Every time he had his teeth pulled (all six of them) they cleaned up his folds, too. I wonder why they didn't think of this problem with his lips to be related. I know his liver disease can't control bacteria so that's why it can run rampant. I've been checking his lips and I think we're going to visit the vet to see if he has this. Someone mentioned something about crusty lips on the GSD BB during the Christmas holidays and it just didn't register with my brain at the time because I was only cursory checking the messages, but then Killian's lips are getting crusty and his breath is starting up again and 2 + 2 must be adding up! The "several underlying causes" may be adding up to this or it may be one of the "many underlying causes." This is really something I have to look into. I'm going to check the GSD BB and e-mail the person who mentioned this condition!
    Thank you so much for the info. I think Killi really may have this or a form of something like this.

    Love and slurps (ok, we'll hold the slurps 'cause of the lip thing ha!) Killian and Sue
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  9. #9
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    Pleasssssssseee!! Slurps are most appreciated at anytime! Especially from my Killi Man! I've been exposed to so much working in a hospital all these years, I'm immune from everything! LOL!! I LOVE YOU KILLI MAN!!!!!! Please now, updates!! I'm so psyched that you may have hit upon something here Sue!! Love, Sandra

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  10. #10
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    Sandra! It does look like this!


    Where the red is, that's the infection. Killian doesn't have it on his nose, though.

    [ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: Sudilar ]
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  11. #11
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    Sandra, wow you are fast, great information, I hope you got it and it can be at least controlled. Sue, good luck with Killi, maybe this will be one thing that can be taken care of, Please let us know what the Vet says.
    Jackie


  12. #12
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    Yes, Sue, I think this just may be the thing that's making dear Killi so miserable. I can't wait to hear what the vet says. I wonder why no one else ever thought of it! And with his liver compromised, it so much harder for him to fight it own his own Please, give him a big hug for me Sue. Jackie, you're pretty quick on the keyboard yourself!! And, as great minds think alike, we both went to the same vet site!! Give those crazy Schnauzer kids a big hug too!

    Star,Tigg'r , Mollie and the10 Gallon Gang!

    And my Rainbow Bridge Furangles...Jingles, Cody, Fritz, Chessa, Satin, Buddy, Lizzie, Oliver, Squeaker, Moonbeam, Rosie, Ruby~

  13. #13
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    Thank you, DRS. Sandra and Jackie!! You two are quicker than greased lightening (whatever that is!!)! I'm going to call my vet and see if she's in today. I'll try to catch this pyoderma before it gets too bad. Thanks, again!!

    Big slurps and hugs! Killian and Sue
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  14. #14
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    Got an appointment at 4:30! Wish Killi luck!
    Save a life, ADOPT!!
    Sue

    Rainbow Bridge Angels: Thor, Shiloh and Killian, Avalanche and Wolf
    (RB Gaylord and Bandit, fosters who have touched my heart)

  15. #15
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    Sue,
    Here's wishing you & Killian the VERY BEST
    of luck at the vets today.I'm sure by now you will have a ton of questions for him/her..
    Prayers & GOOD WISHES from Buddy & Liz.
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
    Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

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