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Thread: Partial U.S. Government shutdown

  1. #1
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    Partial U.S. Government shutdown

    Do other national governments come up against "shutdowns" if budget agreements can't be reached? I think it would be embarrassing for tourists from other countries trying to visit the Smithsonian museums - sorry, you can't come in today, we're closed because we're broke. Same thing with the National Park Service. And the NIH - let's just stop working in the middle of clinical trials; we're out of money so we can't continue searching for cures for things like cancer and AIDS. And another question, why are they trying to "defund" the Affordable Care Act at the 11th hour? It seems too late for that. Yes, it's going to be messy for a long while until everything gets sorted out. It's not without flaws. I just find all of this extremely confusing and frustrating. They thought the first round of cuts in federal government services would never happen, but it did. Please let's keep a second round from going through.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
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    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

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  2. #2
    This isn't new, it's not something done solely by the Republicans.

    A list of prior shutdowns:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdown

    Why defund ACA? It's an intrusive mess, written by bureaucrats and forced through with no one in either party completely understanding the scope of the disaster they were passing. It's an ill-conceived mess that panders to all parties but the people it's supposed to help.

    Remember, we have to pass it to understand what's in the bill?

    I don't want my doctor asking me about unrelated issues to the visit because the government says he/she has to.

    I don't want to have to pay an insurance company for a service I don't want.

    By the time my children are 26, they damned well better be in a position to get their own health insurance, there's no need for them to be carried by mom and dad once they are out of college/trade school.

    Insurance reform and accounting reform, ending the endless shell games and reams of paperwork would be a welcome relief to all, instead they pass this hot mess.



    By the way, the only reason this is happening now, and didn't happen months before, is that the Treasury Department is taking "extraordinary measures" to control the budget deficit. What are those measures? Borrowing from Federal Employee's pension accounts to pay bills. If a corporation did that they'd be in court on accounting fraud charges. The government, however, is apparently immune from transparency in finance.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  3. #3
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    Getting back to the original question ... most other national governments do not have this type of problem with their national budgets. There are a numbers of reasons for this, including that many countries have a parliamentary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system) system of government which tends not to split the two houses (House and Senate) because of the way votes are counted. Additionally many other countries are not as politically polarized as the US, which tends to leave more room for concensus.

  4. #4
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    It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.
    The governor of Illinois tried that and I think he got taken to court by people who wanted to get paid.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  6. #6
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    It is inexcusable, and just plain political grandstanding by politicians, who forget that this will actual affect the loves and pocketbooks of ordinary Americans.

    If they happens, and we don't have a big turnover in Congress at the next election, I will be truly disappointed in my fellow Americans.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    It's o.k., as long as my elected officials get their paychecks, everything will be o.k.
    Yep, as usual

    My brother is a Government worker and depends on his paycheck to live, he lives in a very expensive area of the country to. He is pretty worried. I am worried about this happening often in the future, because I'll be working for the Feds at some point and this they pull way too often.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    It is inexcusable, and just plain political grandstanding by politicians, who forget that this will actual affect the loves and pocketbooks of ordinary Americans.

    If they happens, and we don't have a big turnover in Congress at the next election, I will be truly disappointed in my fellow Americans.
    The leadership will be re-elected because of the pork they bring home to their districts, a few seats will change hands, and the 90%+ incumbency rate will continue.

    After all, MY guy ain't the problem.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Alysser View Post
    Yep, as usual

    My brother is a Government worker and depends on his paycheck to live, he lives in a very expensive area of the country to. He is pretty worried. I am worried about this happening often in the future, because I'll be working for the Feds at some point and this they pull way too often.
    It's actually not a big deal, the longest shutdown was 17 days, people got paid, and the sun came up the next morning as well.

    Just an edit: When the government was shut down in the early '90s, I was a corporal making $1100 per month. Did it suck? Yep. However, they're never long shutdowns, and Congress normally passes legislation giving back pay to those who were furloughed.

    It has happened before, it will happen again, and will keep happening as long as we sleep through the primaries and allow the hyper partisans of both parties to get elected. The general public doesn't pay attention during the primaries, so the party hard liners who can pull the most votes in the primaries win. Mitt Romney and Pres. Obama are both party hard liners, it's the only way to get through the silliness that is our primary system. A few thousand people in Iowa determine who gets the money to continue in the primaries, and many, many presidential candidates never get through to the rest of the states because of that.
    Last edited by Lady's Human; 09-30-2013 at 07:01 PM.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by emily_the_spoiled View Post
    Getting back to the original question ... most other national governments do not have this type of problem with their national budgets. There are a numbers of reasons for this, including that many countries have a parliamentary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system) system of government which tends not to split the two houses (House and Senate) because of the way votes are counted. Additionally many other countries are not as politically polarized as the US, which tends to leave more room for concensus.

    Thank you, E-t-S! This helps me understand it a lot better!

    There was a demonstration at the Federal Plaza today in Chicago. One man said he works for the EPA and if the government shuts itself down, he would be unable to continue his work of cleaning up environmental spills and other chemical exposures, with an unknown effect on the environment as those substances go untouched. And another person said he is supposed to be traveling out of the country for business later this year, but if he doesn't get his passport he's in big trouble. I think the federal government should stay open while elected officials try to sort this out. Hey, Congress, how about you pay those folks out of your paychecks instead of letting them all get furloughed, and you be the ones to get reimbursed once the "shutdown" ends.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  11. #11
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    Lady's Human is correct, in that in the past the people who were not working did receive backpay for the time they were off. But this time there is a real possibility that people not working may not receive their backpay. To authorize backpay, both the Senate and House have to agree to it. Given the current state of affairs, there is a feeling that this may not happen this time. People who are deemed "essential" and are working during the shut down (such as the military, air traffic controllers, and meat inspectors), will not receive a pay check while the government is closed. But they will receive their backpay when the government re-opens. So they are the "fortunate" ones as long as the shut down does not last too long, they should be okay.

    BTW, all the legislators are deemed "essential" so they will get their pay...(but their janitors are not)

    For the sake of all the people who will be laid off as of noon today, I hope that this is resolved quickly in a sensible manner and we do not have the same problem on October 19th (when the debt limit is reached).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    Thank you, E-t-S! This helps me understand it a lot better!

    There was a demonstration at the Federal Plaza today in Chicago. One man said he works for the EPA and if the government shuts itself down, he would be unable to continue his work of cleaning up environmental spills and other chemical exposures, with an unknown effect on the environment as those substances go untouched. And another person said he is supposed to be traveling out of the country for business later this year, but if he doesn't get his passport he's in big trouble. I think the federal government should stay open while elected officials try to sort this out. Hey, Congress, how about you pay those folks out of your paychecks instead of letting them all get furloughed, and you be the ones to get reimbursed once the "shutdown" ends.

    All the news reports say people will still be able to get passports. That office is supported by fees and does not depend on Congressional appropriations.
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  13. #13
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    Our tax dollars at work.

    Morons, one and all.

    ------------------------

    The prez makes me laugh.

    His AHCA is a joke.


    Reform the system BEFORE you start to give our insurance policies.
    (I am accused of being anti prez and a Re-thug-lican because I want everyone to get QUALITY healthcare, not a piece of paper that says I get so-so care from a system that is broken and overworked).

    Think of a doctor as a bus driver, his bus carries 30-40 people.

    Because the government wants more people to ride the bus, but has no interest in buying more buses and training bus drivers?

    This is what healthcare will look like in a few years....


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    Our tax dollars at work.

    Morons, one and all.

    ------------------------

    The prez makes me laugh.

    His AHCA is a joke.


    Reform the system BEFORE you start to give our insurance policies.
    (I am accused of being anti prez and a Re-thug-lican because I want everyone to get QUALITY healthcare, not a piece of paper that says I get so-so care from a system that is broken and overworked).

    Think of a doctor as a bus driver, his bus carries 30-40 people.

    Because the government wants more people to ride the bus, but has no interest in buying more buses and training bus drivers?

    This is what healthcare will look like in a few years....


    ENJOY THE RIDE!!!!!

    All the arguing about the ACA is pointless. It is now Law. Evidently more voted for it than against it. The Supreme Court affirmed ACA constitutional.

    I love this video on the subject. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0..._hp_ref=comedy
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
    Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizbud View Post
    All the arguing about the ACA is pointless. It is now Law. Evidently more voted for it than against it. The Supreme Court affirmed ACA constitutional.

    I love this video on the subject. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0..._hp_ref=comedy
    And you agree with putting more people into a system that is at it's breaking point and has a shortage of doctors and nurses?

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