Gun control discussion

[lizbud]

I have two responses to that, Liz -

1. What weapons are NOT lethal? Isn't that sentence redundant?

2. It is an article on an ad campaign - who is to say whether it worked at all, or had any impact whatsoever?

The article was talking about the marketing of the weapon used in the Newtown shooting. (A ultra lethal weapon)

Probably was redundant.

The ad also was very successful. That particular weapon was flying off the shelves in every gunstore in the country.
Now that the "pro gun" folks are convinced that all weapons will be banned by the ( Goverment) AKA. (the bogeyman)

http://www.bushmaster.com/index.asp

[cassiesmom]

"The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." -- National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre
You're missing the point. The goal is to keep the gun away from the bad guy in the first place!! Hello?!!? And what if you put someone in a school who claims to be a good guy but is actually bad? Then you have an adult with a gun in close proximity to children on a daily basis. Wasn't that the whole problem to begin with?

[Miss Z]

I'm not sure why it was only this evening whilst watching the news that I was reminded of the 1996 shooting in Dunblane, Scotland. I apologise if this has been mentioned before since I've skipped a fair few pages on this thread. The Dunblane shootings were similar in many respects to the recent shootings in Connecticut - a quiet, unassuming town, and many young children (and I believe teachers too) were shot dead before the gunman turned the gun on himself. The British tennis player, Andy Murray, was a survivor of the shooting.

I was very young at the time of the incident, about the age of the primary school children killed. I can't really recall the impact it had on my school life, but my parents can. Security at the school gates became paramount, with secretary-operated buzzer systems installed pretty much everywhere and alarm systems upgraded to the latest technology. Furthermore, following the incident almost all handguns were banned from private ownership without a licence. I cannot comment on what happened to those guns already in private ownership. Yet since then, we have had no massacres at any educational institution. In my 20 years, I can recall one other mass shooting in the UK. I can recall many more for the USA.

So no, banning something will never entirely eliminate the problem. Unless we could ban nut-jobs, perhaps. Indeed, mental health checks can only be helpful before a gun is sold to a member of the public, but how well would they be followed up? I can be sane today, but bonkers tomorrow. No-one necessarily need know I'm bonkers until I, say, pick up my gun and go on a shooting spree...

[Lady's Human]

Interesting article on successful marketing of lethal weapons.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/20/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c2

I read that piece this morning and rolled my eyes.

Bushmaster (who didn't really need much marketing or a competent marketing department, as they make one of the best rifles of that type on the market) took a common comment (Dude, really? You'll lose your man card for that!) and turned it into a weak marketing campaign aimed at......people who were already going to purchase a weapon anyway.

This isn't Joe Camel, the Marlboro man, or the mass media campaigns trying to get you to drink brand X beer.....it's an ad aimed at people who were already going to make a purchase.You're not going to see ads for S+W during the evening news, though I'd welcome those in place of the endless stream of ads for Viagra, Cialis, or any of the other products in that vein that are slathered everywhere.

[Lady's Human]

"The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." -- National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre
You're missing the point. The goal is to keep the gun away from the bad guy in the first place!! Hello?!!? And what if you put someone in a school who claims to be a good guy but is actually bad? Then you have an adult with a gun in close proximity to children on a daily basis. Wasn't that the whole problem to begin with?

So cops shouldn't have weapons either? After all, one of them could (and has, on occasion) turned into a bad guy with a gun.

[pomtzu]

My grandson's high school went on lockdown today. A nice quiet school in a suburban/rural setting - much like in Sandy Hook. However, this school does have a city cop stationed inside the school at all times when there are students present. This didn't deter one student tho - who pulled a gun in class today in the classroom next to where my grandson was at the time. Another student screamed "he's got a gun" - everyone hit the floor and the cop came running at full speed. The student with the gun got tazered and "escorted" to the police station. Every school district with about a 25 mile radius was notified and they all went into lockdown mode. Don't know if the kid with the gun had ill intentions, or he was just being a smart-ass. Either way - too scary to suit me!

All of this insanity needs to end!!!!

[Lady's Human]

All of this insanity needs to end!!!!

Want to help the insanity stop?

Stop glorifying these twits in the Media. Instead of Adam Lanza, refer to the perp as "Idiot #XYZ"

Just a thought.

If you knew you were going to get called a jackass in mass media for being a twit and pulling a gun in a school, would you still do it? They're pubescent publicity stunts.

[RICHARD]

You're not going to see ads for S+W during the evening news, though I'd welcome those in place of the endless stream of ads for Viagra, Cialis, or any of the other products in that vein that are slathered everywhere.

And, what vein may that be?

[cassiesmom]

So cops shouldn't have weapons either? After all, one of them could (and has, on occasion) turned into a bad guy with a gun.

LH, that was also one of the points the NRA vice-president made in his talk. But police officers generally aren't in elementary schools for 6 to 8 hours a day and 5 days a week. The NRA vice-president talked about Secret Service agents, the military and gave the example of a police officer responding to your 911 call.

I understand his point, but I'm not sure that's the answer. For example. The school nearest to me is a single story building. It takes up almost the whole block. Classrooms and offices on the long sides, one short side is the gymnasium and the other short side is the multi-purpose room, which is where the kids have lunch, some assemblies, PTO and school board meetings, band and choir concerts and other school programs. There are entrances on all four sides of the building and the multi-purpose room has two entrances of its own. Would they put an officer at every entrance? They lock them all from the outside after school starts, and you have to ring the bell at the one nearest to the school offices if you need to get in during the day. What if the officer was at the front door and someone bashed their way in through a side door? Or through a window -- ??? Bullet proof glass? Alarms and cameras at all the entrances? What if two bad guys with guns and there is only one officer? Where does it end?

[pomtzu]

If you knew you were going to get called a jackass in mass media for being a twit and pulling a gun in a school, would you still do it? They're pubescent publicity stunts.

I don't doubt that some are stunts, but what about the ones that aren't - the ones that leave multitudes dead??? Columbine......VA Tech.....Sandy Hook - just to name the most notable. There have been numerous other ones where "only a few" lives were lost, and therefore they were forgotten rather quickly! Even one life lost is one life too many.

[mrspunkysmom]

It would be a pity if this were your last post on this subject. Clarity of thought and expression is always a good thing.

Thanks Liz

[Edwina's Secretary]

So you think you can ban weapons from your home? Guess again. Earlier I posted other random shootings. One was an appliance repairman who had a concealed carry permit and always carries a gun in his pocket. (Shot himself in the winky as a result.)

So apparently now I must ask the Sear's repairperson if he or she is 'packing heat.' He could just as easily have shot the home owner or the homeowner's cat after all. And if they are - can I bar them from my house? And how long will I have to do without a working frig while Sear's finds a repairperson who does not routinely pack a gun?

More guns. That is the best thing the NRA can come up with?

The gun show loophole is not a big thing! Really? 40% of the guns bought are bought without the need for a background check. No criminal check, no mental health ...nada.

I do agree with LH on one thing. I work very hard to never know the names of these idiots. While still realizing the reasons they do what they do is far more complex than just the publicity.

And yes Karen - weapons are lethal. It is just some are more efficiently lethal than others. And some - guns, bombs, and land mines come to mind, exist for no reason except to be lethal.

I had been waiting for the comparison to Prohibition. But let's compare cigarettes. According to some folks there is no reason to restrict guns because Americans will just find ways to violate the law...an interesting commentary in itself. But following the logic - let's get rid of all the laws restricting cigarettes! Let children buy and smoke! Let smokers smoker whereever and whenever they want to do so. On airplanes...in restuarants...in movie theaters. After all - Americans who want to smoke are going to smoke no matter what. What about their rights??? Give teachers guns? Fine - let them smoke in the classroom too. Hospitals, church - let there be no place where freedom is curtailed!

I believe societies have the right to ban some things. Things that go against the common good. There will always be people who will violate the law. But do we stoop to the lowest common denominator?

[Lady's Human]

So you think you can ban weapons from your home? Guess again. Earlier I posted other random shootings. One was an appliance repairman who had a concealed carry permit and always carries a gun in his pocket. (Shot himself in the winky as a result.)

There are many versions of "no trespassing" signs, and if the sign is clear, that carrying a weapon on your property will be considered unlawful trespassing, there's not much someone can do about it if you call the police and report them and bar them from your property.

The gun show loophole is not a big thing! Really? 40% of the guns bought are bought without the need for a background check. No criminal check, no mental health ...nada.

Where did that stat come from? I find it difficult to believe, particularly as I have purchased firearms and know what one needs to do to legally acquire them.

I had been waiting for the comparison to Prohibition. But let's compare cigarettes. According to some folks there is no reason to restrict guns because Americans will just find ways to violate the law...an interesting commentary in itself. But following the logic - let's get rid of all the laws restricting cigarettes! Let children buy and smoke!

Kids who want to smoke smoke. it's a fact of life. If you can't even keep cigs out of the hands of kids, how effective is law enforcement going to be at another ban? Kids get booze, marijuana, ecstasy, ad nauseum, and they're all illegal already.

[Edwina's Secretary]

There are many versions of "no trespassing" signs, and if the sign is clear, that carrying a weapon on your property will be considered unlawful trespassing, there's not much someone can do about it if you call the police and report them and bar them from your property.

But that is not the point. Someone can come in your home - such as a repairperson and you do not know if they have a concealed weapon or not. The person is not trespassing. Do I have to post a "gun-free zone" on the front door? Isn't it a bit unfair that the repairperson does not have to announce they have a gun but I have to announce I do not want guns in my house? So much for that "my home is my castle" thing! Perhaps require people with concealed weapons to wear a special patch?

Where did that stat come from? I find it difficult to believe, particularly as I have purchased firearms and know what one needs to do to legally acquire them.

An interview on the radio this morning with the director of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

Kids who want to smoke smoke. it's a fact of life. If you can't even keep cigs out of the hands of kids, how effective is law enforcement going to be at another ban? Kids get booze, marijuana, ecstasy, ad nauseum, and they're all illegal already.

If that is the attitude - why have any laws? Let's throw all the laws out - because some people are going to break the law anyway! And then there is that was not my point. My point was about laws regarding WHERE you can smoke.

[Lady's Human]

My point is simple:

We as a society can regulate effectively, but bans have always been completely and totally ineffective.

There's a long history in the US of rum running, drug smuggling, and other dodges, and there are too many intelligent people who see a buck to be made if they can avoid John Law. Heck, we even smuggle 3L per flush toilets, and there's nothing customs has been able to do to stop it.

As a society we're extremely skilled about getting around bans and prohibitions of all sorts, a gun ban would just be one more avenue to make money.