Gun control discussion

[Karen]

Any gun control discussion should be moved to this thread, instead of the Colorado shooting incident thread. I will be PM'ing everyone who posted such in that thread, and then deleting those post (will PM their contents to each poster respectively) so we keep that thread, which is in General, after all, a respectful thread and place to remember the victims and their families, and everyone affected by this tragedy.

[RICHARD]

When we outlaw guns we'll have to outlaw the rachel ray knife sets, cars, craftsman tools, baseball bats, pencils, pens, sharp sticks and rocks.

And the candle stick Professor Plum used in the Library?

[Cataholic]

We don't need gun control, we need people control.

[pomtzu]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???

ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!

[cassiesmom]

There have been a lot of shootings on the streets of Chicago this summer. According to the papers the hot weather just makes everything more tense and stressful, added to other factors like gangs, drugs, poverty, family problems, un- and under-employment. The city acknowledges that people who shouldn't be able to get guns can still get them outside of the proper steps. They are trying to increase summer programs for kids like sports, arts, and school tutoring by working with the park district, community organizations and churches. They are also trying to create more summer jobs, both through the city departments and private employers, for older kids. The gangs take them in younger and younger, which is tragic. There is sad news every week about people being shot. Not just in the city of Chicago but some of the suburbs as well where there are the same problems. I think it will take a combination of the right gun laws, plus action against gangs and drugs and improved community services to turn this around. It is just very sad, whether it is someone who goes on a shooting spree like the one in Colorado or constant gun violence every week like we have in parts of Chicagoland.

[Alysser]

We don't need gun control, we need people control.

Brilliantly stated in a simple way. I agree, 100%.

Gun control is ineffective on people who commit mass slayings. They have nothing to loss, just don't care, etc. They apparently don't care much about the lives they've ruined much less the gun laws they broke. I don't think people really have use for automatic weapons either, but it is your constitutional right to have them yet even that is being taken away. I do believe in the right to bear arms because I believe the principles of which this country was founded on. My point is, the gun is NOT the issue, and someone could argue that with me until they are blue in the face, but I will never believe it is. The gun doesn't shoot itself. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get these weapons, maybe you don't need 'em, but you do have a right to own them and that shouldn't be taken away because of psycho paths who wouldn't follow the laws and would find a different way to get them anyway.

[RICHARD]

I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.

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Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Unless you get pistol whipped.

[Asiel]

Guns are banned here unless registered. I wouldn't want a gun in the house anyway. No matter what they do there will always be someone who's a menace to others even without a gun. If someone is intent on doing something crazy then they will find a way--

[Lady's Human]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???

A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.

[Karen]

I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.

I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

[blue]

Gun control means using both hands.

[pomtzu]

A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.

Pardon my ignorance of the "proper" name for the weapons I was referring to, but I do believe most people here understand my meaning.
Anything bigger than a 22 pistol (is that correct???), is overkill. JMHO of course.
And of course since this thread has the potential to get hot, I'm done, since I've stated my opinion and it makes no sense at all for me to beat a dead horse.

[smokey the elder]

Unfortunately, the laws (for any criminal act) do account for "outliers" since this is the portion of the population that commits crimes.
I agree about the mental health issues; only when these get the attention hear disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. do will progress be made.

In terms of gun control per se: I'm in the "enforce the laws we've got" camp. Most firearm owners are responsible individuals. I like to compare it to having a car and driver's license. Many accidents and fatalities are caused by irresponsible driving behavior, or even unlicensed drivers. For the most part (it isn't perfect) motor vehicle codes work fairly well. If gun laws worked as well maybe we'd have some progress on gun crimes.

[RICHARD]

I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???

ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!

One thing that I caught, that may be an error on my part, is the "bulletproof" equipment he was wearing.

I was looking at one of the shipping/purchase receipts that came from the store he was supposed to have purchased them from?

The first item was an "assault vest" which is just vest you can hang/carry things on.

He did have a kelvar helmet, which can stop some bullets.

Another misnomer is the term 'bullet proof' isn't true. Some munitions are defeat body armor unless you are wearing a ceramic or steel insert in the clothing.

Another fun fact?

You can defeat a kelvar vest with a knife if you stab the person wearing it slowly.
--------------------------------------------

The assault rifle (all guns are 'assaulting' if used against an innocent person) he had can be purchased legally thanks to the expiration of the laws, which, by the way, our prez decided NOT to re-sign into law after he went into office.

We don't know if he had converted the semi into an auto fire weapon (parts are available over the internet) which may have caused the gun to jam.

There are quite a few questions that are unanswered so far.

People and the media just need to know the right ones to ask.

--------------------------------------

I have some loose bricks in the back yard that are looking pretty dangerous to me, what should I do?
We also don't know if he had done any shooting before the incident.

[RICHARD]

I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

Guns are not at fault.

Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????

I was being facetious.

I also love the idea that Dr Drew and all the other kooks on TV are trying to figure out if this guy is crazy.

Uh, you think?

Everyone has a certain 'bent' -I am a person who sees a sign or warning and immediately want to do the opposite.

Am I crazy? I think so, but I try not to succumb so easily to my stupdity/urges.

I draw the line at stopping a fan with my tongue.