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Thread: Gun control discussion

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  1. #1
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    Gun control discussion

    Any gun control discussion should be moved to this thread, instead of the Colorado shooting incident thread. I will be PM'ing everyone who posted such in that thread, and then deleting those post (will PM their contents to each poster respectively) so we keep that thread, which is in General, after all, a respectful thread and place to remember the victims and their families, and everyone affected by this tragedy.
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  2. #2
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    When we outlaw guns we'll have to outlaw the rachel ray knife sets, cars, craftsman tools, baseball bats, pencils, pens, sharp sticks and rocks.

    And the candle stick Professor Plum used in the Library?
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  3. #3
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    We don't need gun control, we need people control.

  4. #4
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    I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???

    ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!
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  5. #5
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    There have been a lot of shootings on the streets of Chicago this summer. According to the papers the hot weather just makes everything more tense and stressful, added to other factors like gangs, drugs, poverty, family problems, un- and under-employment. The city acknowledges that people who shouldn't be able to get guns can still get them outside of the proper steps. They are trying to increase summer programs for kids like sports, arts, and school tutoring by working with the park district, community organizations and churches. They are also trying to create more summer jobs, both through the city departments and private employers, for older kids. The gangs take them in younger and younger, which is tragic. There is sad news every week about people being shot. Not just in the city of Chicago but some of the suburbs as well where there are the same problems. I think it will take a combination of the right gun laws, plus action against gangs and drugs and improved community services to turn this around. It is just very sad, whether it is someone who goes on a shooting spree like the one in Colorado or constant gun violence every week like we have in parts of Chicagoland.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by pomtzu View Post
    I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???
    A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

    Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

    6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

    Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    A glock? It's just another semi-auto pistol, no different than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson.

    Assault rifle or machine gun? For starters, machine guns are already HEAVILY regulated. Assault rifle? could be anything made to look like a military style rifle, form a bb gun on up. Frankly, I could cause more damage with my single shot post civil war rifle than most could with an "assault rifle".

    6000 rounds of ammo? When I used to target shoot all the time, that was a couple of months of ammo for me. Are we going to start regulating how much ammo someone buys? Okay, fine, I'll buy reloading supplies and a bunch of pig lead.

    Point being, no matter how you regulate, all it does is make it a PITA for law abiding citizens. For every law you come up with, I can find a loophole to exploit. Enforce the laws we have, include psych history in background checks, (would take a HIPPA modification) and let it rest. You cannot have a free society if you regulate to eliminate the actions of the wild points.
    Pardon my ignorance of the "proper" name for the weapons I was referring to, but I do believe most people here understand my meaning.
    Anything bigger than a 22 pistol (is that correct???), is overkill. JMHO of course.
    And of course since this thread has the potential to get hot, I'm done, since I've stated my opinion and it makes no sense at all for me to beat a dead horse.
    I've Been Boo'd
    Thanks, Barry
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My little dogs - two heartbeats at my feet.
    by Edith Wharton & Me
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    To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    The clock of life is wound but once and no man has the power
    To know just when the hands will stop - on what day, or what hour.
    Now is the only time you have, so live it with a will -
    Don't wait until tomorrow - the hands may then be still.
    ~~~~true author unknown~~~~

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pomtzu View Post
    I don't think outlawing ALL guns is the issue - just the type. What does your nice next door neighbor need an assault rifle, machine gun, or glock for??? And why does he need 6000 rounds of ammo and full riot gear? Is he really protecting a secret Ft Knox in an underground bunker on his property???

    ETA: My ex was a cop for most of his working life, and he always told me that if someone was trying to break into the house, and I decided to shoot to kill - then be sure to drag the criminal into the house BEFORE I called the cops. Of course it was a joke between us, but one that had a lot of truth behind it! I didn't have or want a gun, anyway!
    One thing that I caught, that may be an error on my part, is the "bulletproof" equipment he was wearing.

    I was looking at one of the shipping/purchase receipts that came from the store he was supposed to have purchased them from?

    The first item was an "assault vest" which is just vest you can hang/carry things on.

    He did have a kelvar helmet, which can stop some bullets.

    Another misnomer is the term 'bullet proof' isn't true. Some munitions are defeat body armor unless you are wearing a ceramic or steel insert in the clothing.

    Another fun fact?

    You can defeat a kelvar vest with a knife if you stab the person wearing it slowly.
    --------------------------------------------

    The assault rifle (all guns are 'assaulting' if used against an innocent person) he had can be purchased legally thanks to the expiration of the laws, which, by the way, our prez decided NOT to re-sign into law after he went into office.

    We don't know if he had converted the semi into an auto fire weapon (parts are available over the internet) which may have caused the gun to jam.

    There are quite a few questions that are unanswered so far.

    People and the media just need to know the right ones to ask.

    --------------------------------------

    I have some loose bricks in the back yard that are looking pretty dangerous to me, what should I do?
    We also don't know if he had done any shooting before the incident.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataholic View Post
    We don't need gun control, we need people control.
    Brilliantly stated in a simple way. I agree, 100%.

    Gun control is ineffective on people who commit mass slayings. They have nothing to loss, just don't care, etc. They apparently don't care much about the lives they've ruined much less the gun laws they broke. I don't think people really have use for automatic weapons either, but it is your constitutional right to have them yet even that is being taken away. I do believe in the right to bear arms because I believe the principles of which this country was founded on. My point is, the gun is NOT the issue, and someone could argue that with me until they are blue in the face, but I will never believe it is. The gun doesn't shoot itself. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get these weapons, maybe you don't need 'em, but you do have a right to own them and that shouldn't be taken away because of psycho paths who wouldn't follow the laws and would find a different way to get them anyway.
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  10. #10
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    I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.

    -------------------------

    Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

    Unless you get pistol whipped.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

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  11. #11
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    Guns are banned here unless registered. I wouldn't want a gun in the house anyway. No matter what they do there will always be someone who's a menace to others even without a gun. If someone is intent on doing something crazy then they will find a way--
    Asiel


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    I think we should regulate people who don't show any signs of a mental defect that would cause them to go on a rampage.
    I don't think that's the point anyone is trying to make.

    Today a woman in my church was talking about how she hopes if any good can come of this, it will be that mental health issues are not regarded as shameful and something to hide at all costs. From what little we know so far (yes, I have been avoiding all the hoopla and folderol intentionally) it seems the shooter was spiraling down in the last couple months or so. Who knows if feeling like it would be okay to talk to someone about those feelings was more acceptable whether this could have been averted, I have no idea. And we may never know.

    Guns are not at fault.

    Look how many people Timothy McVeigh and cohort killed with a few readily purchased ingredients. Yet there's no move to outlaw fertilizer, is there?

    And while I know our justice system is based on "innocent until proven guilty," it always strikes me as a little twisted that broadcaster call this man "the alleged shooter." Like there's any doubt? Hello????
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alysser View Post
    Brilliantly stated in a simple way. I agree, 100%.

    Gun control is ineffective on people who commit mass slayings. They have nothing to loss, just don't care, etc. They apparently don't care much about the lives they've ruined much less the gun laws they broke. I don't think people really have use for automatic weapons either, but it is your constitutional right to have them yet even that is being taken away. I do believe in the right to bear arms because I believe the principles of which this country was founded on. My point is, the gun is NOT the issue, and someone could argue that with me until they are blue in the face, but I will never believe it is. The gun doesn't shoot itself. Maybe it shouldn't be so easy to get these weapons, maybe you don't need 'em, but you do have a right to own them and that shouldn't be taken away because of psycho paths who wouldn't follow the laws and would find a different way to get them anyway.
    I agree with this 110%.

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  14. #14
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    A Note From Michael Moore

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mi...ichael-moore-2

    I am truly beside myself this time. I tried to ring a warning bell about this a decade ago. The disease has only gotten worse.

    But...you feel something different in the air across America tonight, don't you? People have had it and the outrage is loud and visible. I'm convinced the majority of Americans will now back strong gun control laws. And a better mental health care system. And perhaps a few are willing to look at the deeper issue of how this country officially sanctions violence as a means to an end.

    The NRA, for the first time ever, has gone silent. They've taken their Facebook page down. They know they can't show up in Newtown next week and stick it to the people there, like they usually do after one of these mass killings. Let's face it, the gun lobby tonight is on the ropes. Now is the time to act. We can't let this sad moment pass without a true response and a president willing to be a strong leader.

    I'll send some more thoughts tomorrow, but for now I thought I'd share with you what I've been sending out over Twitter this weekend. (If you're not on Twitter, please consider it. I know not one more social media stop, please! But I've found it to be a quick and easy way to communicate with millions. Please give it a try. I send things out on it every day and I'd like you not to miss them.)

    Here's my Twitter feed since the shootings on Friday:
    "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door." -- Milton Berle

  15. #15
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    Cerberus Seeks Sale of Gun Maker Freedom Group

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...224794006.html

    By ISABELLA STEGER Private-equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP is seeking to sell the company that makes a gun used in last week's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.
    Some time on Monday, Walmart.com removed a listing for the Bushmaster Patrolman's Carbine M4A3 Rifle; the move was first reported by the Nation magazine.

    A Wal-Mart spokesman said the gun was never available for purchase online, only at some of the retailer's stores, but wouldn't comment on why the chain removed the website listing, which included customer reviews.
    The rifle was still available Monday for purchase in Wal-Mart stores, including a supercenter in San Marcos, Texas, according to a clerk there.
    Story with different details here: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/priva...ting-1.1083513

    Yet people are rushing out to buy guns.
    "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door." -- Milton Berle

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