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Thread: Do we dare discuss the Supreme Court decision re: Healthcare

  1. #61
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    Richard, did you read the page Jessika posted?
    I've Been Frosted

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Richard, did you read the page Jessika posted?
    No, I didn't.

    I tend to be a pretty cynical person and of the mind that i'll see things and then I believe.

    And even then?

    ------------------------

    Went back to read the page and still have my doubts.

    One thing that amused me was the idea that the bigger market a manufacturer has of a market the more they will be taxed in order to drive the costs down?

    So, If you are ABC corp and you have 75% of a market, let's say ear widgets, and now you must pay a larger tax what is to keep you from spinning off or breaking up your company into divisions?

    Are you going to pay more taxes to keep up you margins and what about the stockholders? Where does their profits go and what does that do to the prices of the ear widgets?

    Do you scale back production and lay off more people in order to lower your percentage of the market?

    I don't do any of the biz shows/networks and could not run a company to save my life but, I do see problems with that part of the program. It's common sense to me.

    If you threaten to tax a company more because they control a larger market share that only means trouble.

    That is the point where CEOs get creative with the bottom line and the phrase 'creative marketing' comes into play.

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    Why, I feel less irritated already!
    Last edited by RICHARD; 07-02-2012 at 07:18 AM.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
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    World basketball chamopionships, football starts and a world series in October!!.

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  3. #63
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    The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?

    Or maybe they plan on combining all those messes into this new Health care program for one gigantic ginormous mess?
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?

    Or maybe they plan on combining all those messes into this new Health care program for one gigantic ginormous mess?
    And the current system is wonderful how?

    It can't stay as is, billing is a labyrinthine mess. SOMETHING has to change. I don't see this as a cure all, but it may start a serious discussion, rather than a discussion with the various sides trying to score points for the PR Grist mill.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  5. #65
    BTW, as a political aside.....

    Anyone who thinks Gov. Romney is going to repeal ACA needs to look at the man's history as governor.

    First, this bill is largely based on the plan he enacted in Massachusetts.

    Second, this is a man with no convictions whatsoever.

    He was for health care reform, but now he's against something he fought for in MA?

    He enthusiastically signed the Massachusetts Assault Weapons Ban, but now goes to the NRA convention as the keynote and speaks on second amendment rights?

    His only conviction is that he belongs in the Oval office. Beyond that, the man has NO core beliefs.
    The one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind wasn't king, he was stoned for seeing light.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    BTW, as a political aside.....

    Anyone who thinks Gov. Romney is going to repeal ACA needs to look at the man's history as governor.

    First, this bill is largely based on the plan he enacted in Massachusetts.

    Second, this is a man with no convictions whatsoever.

    He was for health care reform, but now he's against something he fought for in MA?

    He enthusiastically signed the Massachusetts Assault Weapons Ban, but now goes to the NRA convention as the keynote and speaks on second amendment rights?

    His only conviction is that he belongs in the Oval office. Beyond that, the man has NO core beliefs.
    Mexico has a new president.

    I may move down there.

    -----------------------

    I spoke to a friend (Yes I have friends) that works at a large hospital, It rhymes with Best Wirginia and she's not really enthused about the new act.

    (Do they call it an act because it has a certain pretend factor associated to it?)

    I am all for EVERYONE HAVING insurance, but what bothers me is the cost to everyone.

    If you drive a Cadillac and you buy the cheapest insurance to drive it around?

    Great. But if you need to take it in for service and your insurance company says you have to go to a Yugo dealership to have the work done?

    --------------------------

    I had an accident on my motorcycle and the insurance company was adamant that I take it to the dealership where I purchased it.

    I had to take my rice grinder to a Harley Davidson mechanic (The dealership was sold to an H-D group) and while they did a good job of fixing it?

    When I showed up at the door, these guys didn't want to even touch the bike because it was Japanese. They also jacked up the price of the parts and labor.

    The fix was more than the bike was worth.

    -------------------------

    Everyone should be able to go to the doctor and 'be fixed'.

    The same people who really want this law/act/initiative enforced are the people who have insurance.

    They are also the people who do not want to be tracked by their shopping cards, emails or the government.

    Yet, it's OK for the government to tell others they must buy insurance and they will tell you what plans they will subsidise so you can be in accord with the law?

    ------------------------

    Go check out what the prices are just to see a doc, then go to another and another.

    Yugos, Volkswagons and Mercedes prices are what you are going to see.

    Instead of setting guidlines against gouging the system and setting prices for basic services?

    We get a totally screwed up law put into effect that people are already trying how to figure out how to scam it.

    Look at Medicare fraud.

    The FBI broke up a So Cal gang that scammed 100 MILLION dollars from the FED/MEDICARE system.

    100 million is a drop in the bucket compared to the yearly amounts spent for healthcare.

    But think of the lives that could be impacted by that amount of money.


    -----------------------

    Look past the "Affordable Health Care Insurance".

    Why not "Affordable Health Care" or "Health Care Cost Initiative"?

    You can get all the insurance, affordable insurance you want.

    That does not guarantee you will get good care.

    HC guarantees you will be seen or have access to a physician.

    It does not mean he/she will be able or willing to give you the best possible care. Access to costly tests/exams are going to determine exactly how you are treated.

    ----------------------

    It going to be a giant party where the word is going to be "Free Liquor".

    People will flock and when they come inside they'll see that some people will get beer, the good stuff will be served in the back, where not all of us are welcome.

    ------------------------

    The MIttster probably isn't the best bet for running the US, I'd much rather have someone with the idea or would try to reform the system first and not to try and push everyone into an elevator car that has strict load and occupancy limits.

    It ain't going to work.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    World basketball chamopionships, football starts and a world series in October!!.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    And the current system is wonderful how?

    It can't stay as is, billing is a labyrinthine mess. SOMETHING has to change. I don't see this as a cure all, but it may start a serious discussion, rather than a discussion with the various sides trying to score points for the PR Grist mill.
    Never said it was wonderful, quite the opposite. They are going to take something already a mess and make it worse.
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    MY BLESSINGS:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Grandma (RB), Chester, Angel, Chip

    Leonardo (RB), Luke (RB), Winnie, Chuck,

    Frankie

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    WHERE YOU ARE IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  8. #68
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    I don't know if this is directly related to the ongoing debate, but one big problem with medical care is: try getting a quote for something you want done. Say, a knee replacement. GOOD LUCK! Every other product or service I can think of has the prices transparent. I reckon if people knew what they were paying, they could decide if they are getting what they pay for. If someone wants to buy a Kia and sees a Cadillac price, they know right away something's not OK. No such "common lore" exists, AFAIK, in health care prices.
    I've been finally defrosted by cassiesmom!
    "Not my circus, not my monkeys!"-Polish proverb

  9. Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    The thing that really bothers me is that they (the government) have made a royal mess of every program they control: Social Security, a mess; Medicare, a mess: Medicade, a mess; Welfare, a mess; food stamps, a mess, etc. Why on earth should we believe this new program will be any different when they can't even make those work?
    I get really tired of the old canard - of course there are things that the government controls that are done well! I could start with the interstate highway system - or the space program (remember landing on the moon) or the fact that I can drink milk and not wonder if it is water with chalk in it - or buy a prescription and not wonder if the drug will kill me. You can thank the Food and Drug Administration. Remember all those banks that have failed? Without the FDIC all the people who had money in those banks would have been wiped out - as they were back in the 1920's and 1930s. How safe is your drinking water - how clean is the air you breath?

    As if the current system - insurance companies - is doing a great job. Insurance companies exist to make profits - and they do that by NOT paying claims. They are extremely intrusive in the doctor-patient relationship - telling doctors how they must treat patients (and with profits the driver!)

    And what makes me laugh is people who admit they don't know what they are talking about and talk about it anyway.

    The hospitals here in California have come out very strongly in favor of the act. We...well those of us who either have insurance or pay taxes that is...are already paying for the uninsured.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    I get really tired of the old canard - of course there are things that the government controls that are done well! I could start with the interstate highway system - or the space program (remember landing on the moon) or the fact that I can drink milk and not wonder if it is water with chalk in it - or buy a prescription and not wonder if the drug will kill me. You can thank the Food and Drug Administration. Remember all those banks that have failed? Without the FDIC all the people who had money in those banks would have been wiped out - as they were back in the 1920's and 1930s. How safe is your drinking water - how clean is the air you breath?

    As if the current system - insurance companies - is doing a great job. Insurance companies exist to make profits - and they do that by NOT paying claims. They are extremely intrusive in the doctor-patient relationship - telling doctors how they must treat patients (and with profits the driver!)

    And what makes me laugh is people who admit they don't know what they are talking about and talk about it anyway.

    The hospitals here in California have come out very strongly in favor of the act. We...well those of us who either have insurance or pay taxes that is...are already paying for the uninsured.
    Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and I respect it even if I don't agree with it. Only time will tell what this new bill will prove to be.
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    MY BLESSINGS:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Grandma (RB), Chester, Angel, Chip

    Leonardo (RB), Luke (RB), Winnie, Chuck,

    Frankie

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    WHERE YOU ARE IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  11. #71
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    The whole thing is really a big unknown and it'll take time to see how the law actually plays out.
    I've been finally defrosted by cassiesmom!
    "Not my circus, not my monkeys!"-Polish proverb

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokey the elder View Post
    I don't know if this is directly related to the ongoing debate, but one big problem with medical care is: try getting a quote for something you want done. Say, a knee replacement. GOOD LUCK! Every other product or service I can think of has the prices transparent. I reckon if people knew what they were paying, they could decide if they are getting what they pay for. If someone wants to buy a Kia and sees a Cadillac price, they know right away something's not OK. No such "common lore" exists, AFAIK, in health care prices.
    I went to the doctor last week. As I was leaving, I asked for a bill (I have a big deductible, I know I have to pay for the visit). Again, I heard, "we don't know what the charge will be...it depends on your insurance". LOL. It shouldn't! The charge should be what the charge should be. A doctor's ten minutes in the exam room with the patient.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataholic View Post
    I went to the doctor last week. As I was leaving, I asked for a bill (I have a big deductible, I know I have to pay for the visit). Again, I heard, "we don't know what the charge will be...it depends on your insurance". LOL. It shouldn't! The charge should be what the charge should be. A doctor's ten minutes in the exam room with the patient.
    Of course the charge should be what the charge will be, not what they can "get out of it"! Anything else sounds like a banana republic.
    Randi



    "I don't know which weapons will be used in the third World war, but in the fourth, it will be sticks and stones" --- Albert Einstein.


  14. #74
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    Ind. woman accused of embezzling $300K from pet insurance firm
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    First Posted: July 04, 2012 - 4:01 am
    Last Updated: July 04, 2012



    JEFFERSONVILLE, Ind. — A southern Indiana woman faces dozens of forgery and theft charges alleging that she embezzled more than $300,000 from a pet insurance company.

    Christina Heaven of Jeffersonville has been charged with 59 forgery and theft counts accusing her of embezzlement from PetFirst Healthcare. Her trial is scheduled for November.

    The Courier-Journal of Louisville, Ky., reports (http://cjky.it/O25Yra ) the 35-year-old Heaven was an administrative worker at the Jeffersonville company. She's accused of using her boss's social security number to open a secret checking account in the PetFirst name with a credit card account in 2010.

    Heaven allegedly deposited checks from PetFirst customers totaling $314,723 into that checking account and then withdrew $293,703.


    Brandon Smith, one of Heaven's attorneys, urged the public "not to rush to judgment before the evidence is available."


    ___

    This would NEVER happen to a human insurance company.....
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    World basketball chamopionships, football starts and a world series in October!!.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cataholic View Post
    I went to the doctor last week. As I was leaving, I asked for a bill (I have a big deductible, I know I have to pay for the visit). Again, I heard, "we don't know what the charge will be...it depends on your insurance". LOL. It shouldn't! The charge should be what the charge should be. A doctor's ten minutes in the exam room with the patient.
    Unless you have some really obscure plan, the person who handles the billing ought to be able to tell you that right away, or with a quick search on his or her computer! Sheesh!

    Just today, I was on the phone with an insurance company. In May, as you know, I ended up having my gall bladder removed. Good riddance. But part of that was, my primary care's office suggested I go to a nearby Urgent Care place, as they didn't have anyone who could see me that afternoon. So I dutifully looked up where it was, went there, and briefly saw a doctor, who told me they didn't have any ultrasound available there, so it was most likely my gall bladder, but I would go to the Emergency Room at the hospital. They had taken all my information, and said they'd call, and let them know to expect me. Before I left, I said, "Now, before I leave, don't I owe you a co-pay?" I was in pain, yes, but still had the presence of mind to inquire. "Na," I was told, as we couldn't really do anything for you, so go on ahead, you don't owe anything." I asked if they were sure, they said yes, and onward I went.

    This week, more than a month later, I got a bill for $15. That's my copay, I KNOW that amount. I had no problem paying it, just would have preferred to get it over with while I was there the first time! Instead, they had to wait, generate paperwork, bill my insurance company for the whole amount, figure out there was $15 the insurance didn't pay, and send me a bill for that. And have someone available to answer the phone when I called to ask, "What the heck?" Talk about a waste of everyone's time and money!
    I've Been Frosted

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