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Thread: Do we dare discuss the Supreme Court decision re: Healthcare

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Westchester Cty, NY
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    8,604
    *tiptoes in* I read an opinion piece that the "penalty" is truly a tax, and listed as such in the actual Act. The opponents of "Obamacare" used the Commerce Clause. The Justices actually read the Act and recognized that the "penalty" was in fact a tax. Apparently (this is all according to the opinion piece), a number of attorneys filed an "amicus" (friend of the court) brief that suggested that since it was a tax, it was a straightforward case. However. Mr. President sort of shot himself in the foot by insisting that it was not a tax.

    There's a lot to like about the ACA. But it has to be paid for somehow.

    Full text of the opinion piece is here. http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/opinio...html?hpt=hp_c2
    I've been finally defrosted by cassiesmom!
    "Not my circus, not my monkeys!"-Polish proverb

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    I understand that there is a clause for low income purchases of coverage.

    But, when you don't have the money to purchase that coverage?

    I have had WONDERFUL HCC and I have been in a situation where I did not (I owe my life to the FINE doctors at the University of Louisville - I don't advocate almost dying to get good treatment.)

    ------------

    I don't mean to make this sound dramatic.....

    Most of us have never had to worry about pinching pennies to afford (Fill in the blank).

    There is a car commercial where the spokesperson shows a gal who bought a new car and her insurance is affordable, so she doesn't have to eat "ramen noodles" every day.

    There have been a few times where I had to make do with a few days of eating rice - not fun but it makes you really appreciate what you do and do not have.

    --------------

    When you have a light bill, gas, water, car insurance, mortgage, HOA fees and what else - where, if you do not have a job with bennies, are you going to cut to be able to afford coverage?

    --------------

    I am not often "gobsmacked" or at a loss for words, but when I am, it's because of some thing I see in nature, in the sky or some other silly thing or event.

    I drove thru Springfield MO and got lost trying to find my room for that night.

    One of the reasons?

    I turned onto a street and thought I was next to an airport - there were so many parking structures and signs I literally drove back and forth for about 40 minutes - why?

    There wasn't an airplane in sight, but the street was literally filthy with hospitals and clinics.

    I am used to seeing huge medical campuses, but this was like freaking Disneyland.

    --------------

    That got me to wonder where the money came from to build all these 'facilities'.....I think I figured it out.

    The news/BS programs will set the tone for the election in November.

    They have me scared.

    I try to think about what will happen, with either candidate in office and I don't like it.

    The biggest problem - and I'll scream it from the rooftops every chance I get - is there needs to be, not a health insurance overhaul, but an overhaul in the way treatment is developed, given and the ramifications of treatment that goes badly.

    ---------------

    The last thing that limits the effectiveness of ANY TREATMENTS is the mindset of all the people who watch HOUSE or any other show about medicine.

    We are a mindless group of people that think George Clooney will come and take our temperature, look in our eye or check our prostate.

    He'll wink, write out a prescription and after the next commercial we'll be back in the office thanking him because he cured us.

    Our mindset is that we don't need to do the preventive crap.

    One hour, with commercial breaks, will get us back on track.

    -----------

    Hey, do me a favor, watch TV for one night and count all the commericals from lawyers who are looking for people
    to joint a class action suit.

    My favorite is the firm with the phone number that spells out "B-A-D-D-R-U-G"

    Nice.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    World basketball chamopionships, football starts and a world series in October!!.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Copenhagen, Denmark - GMT+1
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    I don't know a whole lot about US healthcare, but what SAS and ES say, I agree with. In Denmark, healthcare is payed for over the tax, except going to the dentist. Just like anyone can use the road for free, or the library, anyone can get sick and in need of treatment at a hospital and that should be free - not just for rich people!
    Randi



    "I don't know which weapons will be used in the third World war, but in the fourth, it will be sticks and stones" --- Albert Einstein.


  4. #19
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    Mar 2005
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    trenton, new jersey
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    I was 19 when my grandmother took me with her to Scotland, she was born there and went back to visit. While we were in Dundee, Grandma got sick. With my family half a world away I was scared out of my mind. The owner of the hotel we stayed in told me not to worry, he would get help. About an hour later there was a knock at our door, it was the doctor. She gave my grandmother a complete examination, determined the problem, and gave her medication. The doctor came every day to do another examination, give medication, and would sit with us for a while. On her day off, the doctor took me sight-seeing around the city. When Grandma was medically cleared to continue our trip, she asked the doctor about her fee; doctor said there is no fee; Grandma said "But I'm not a British subject"; the doctor said "It doesn't matter, that's how it is here."

    All through the debates about "Obamacare" I couldn't help but think about our experience in Dundee. As for the ACA, I don't know how I feel about it. Required coverage for pre-existing conditions is a huge plus and it's something I'll be dealing with soon. Another positive is that kids are covered even with pre-existing conditions. Anything that helps seniors get to their doctors and stay on their prescriptions can only be a good thing. There are some very good provisions but one has got to be changed, this electronic medical records nonsense. This is priveledged information and emr is a direct and blatant violation of the Privacy Act and HIPPA. Let us decide if we want our records mistreated like this, DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

    I was surprised at the Supreme Court's decision on the ACA. Maybe now those in charge will start working out the bugs and refine all of the provisions so it will work effectively for everyone.
    FIND A PURPOSE IN LIFE.....BE A BAD EXAMPLE

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Delaware, USA - The First State/Diamond State - home of The Blue Hens
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    So Joe Blow, who must now buy a policy because Uncle Sam says so, and he complies just to avoid being taxed -(which I heard is somewhere around $600+ per adult) - buys it even tho he doesn't want to buy it. He buys the cheapest coverage available, which of course probably has big co-pays and deductibles. Is he now going to run to his doctor since he has insurance, rather than use the ER instead? I doubt it - not when he can go to the ER and never have to pay, and the hospital is still stuck for what his paltry insurance doesn't pay. But of course, John Q Public will get stuck with his bill in the end, just as it always has - in the form of higher insurance premiums and medical costs in general. So what has been gained by Obama's plan??? - not much when you consider this scenario, anyway.

    Any thoughts??? Maybe I'm just being dense.

    I'm so glad I already have insurance!!!!!
    I've Been Boo'd
    Thanks, Barry
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My little dogs - two heartbeats at my feet.
    by Edith Wharton & Me
    Sparky the Fuzzbutt - PT's DOTD 8/3/2010
    RIP 2/28/1999~10/9/2012
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    RIP 1/24/1996~8/9/2013
    Ellie - Mom to the Fuzzbuttz

    To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    The clock of life is wound but once and no man has the power
    To know just when the hands will stop - on what day, or what hour.
    Now is the only time you have, so live it with a will -
    Don't wait until tomorrow - the hands may then be still.
    ~~~~true author unknown~~~~

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by momcat View Post
    I was 19 when my grandmother took me with her to Scotland, she was born there and went back to visit. While we were in Dundee, Grandma got sick. With my family half a world away I was scared out of my mind. The owner of the hotel we stayed in told me not to worry, he would get help. About an hour later there was a knock at our door, it was the doctor. She gave my grandmother a complete examination, determined the problem, and gave her medication. The doctor came every day to do another examination, give medication, and would sit with us for a while. On her day off, the doctor took me sight-seeing around the city. When Grandma was medically cleared to continue our trip, she asked the doctor about her fee; doctor said there is no fee; Grandma said "But I'm not a British subject"; the doctor said "It doesn't matter, that's how it is here."

    All through the debates about "Obamacare" I couldn't help but think about our experience in Dundee. As for the ACA, I don't know how I feel about it. Required coverage for pre-existing conditions is a huge plus and it's something I'll be dealing with soon. Another positive is that kids are covered even with pre-existing conditions. Anything that helps seniors get to their doctors and stay on their prescriptions can only be a good thing. There are some very good provisions but one has got to be changed, this electronic medical records nonsense. This is priveledged information and emr is a direct and blatant violation of the Privacy Act and HIPPA. Let us decide if we want our records mistreated like this, DON"T SHOVE IT DOWN OUR THROATS!

    I was surprised at the Supreme Court's decision on the ACA. Maybe now those in charge will start working out the bugs and refine all of the provisions so it will work effectively for everyone.
    I worked in a records dept for 13 years and while EMRs to have an up side?

    The one that makes me laugh are the 'electric signature' options.

    When a doc gets lazy and gives his nurse his password to help him get caught up on his paperwork?

    What about hackers or when the system gets compromised?

    That is another moneymaker for the companies that lobby in D.C.

    ------------------------------


    Pom,

    You are absolutely correct.

    As long as there are no sweeping changes to the HC system, people are going to get screwed.
    The secret of life is nothing at all
    -faith hill

    World basketball chamopionships, football starts and a world series in October!!.

    No humans were hurt during the posting of this message.

  7. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
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    Waltham, MA, USA
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    36,422
    Quote Originally Posted by pomtzu View Post
    So Joe Blow, who must now buy a policy because Uncle Sam says so, and he complies just to avoid being taxed -(which I heard is somewhere around $600+ per adult) - buys it even tho he doesn't want to buy it. He buys the cheapest coverage available, which of course probably has big co-pays and deductibles. Is he now going to run to his doctor since he has insurance, rather than use the ER instead? I doubt it - not when he can go to the ER and never have to pay, and the hospital is still stuck for what his paltry insurance doesn't pay. But of course, John Q Public will get stuck with his bill in the end, just as it always has - in the form of higher insurance premiums and medical costs in general. So what has been gained by Obama's plan??? - not much when you consider this scenario, anyway.

    Any thoughts??? Maybe I'm just being dense.

    I'm so glad I already have insurance!!!!!
    From what I understand - which I emphasize is very little, as I have not read the bill, preventive care is usually covered without a co-pay. So why wouldn't he go to the doctor? The $600 figure, by the way, is not accurate, it's a sliding scale, depending on income up to a certain level.
    I've Been Frosted

  8. #23
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    Sep 2007
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    Delaware, USA - The First State/Diamond State - home of The Blue Hens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    From what I understand - which I emphasize is very little, as I have not read the bill, preventive care is usually covered without a co-pay. So why wouldn't he go to the doctor? The $600 figure, by the way, is not accurate, it's a sliding scale, depending on income up to a certain level.
    I'm just saying what I have read/heard so far, and you know what is said about that. Only believe half of what you see, and nothing of what you hear. And there is much more to go to a doctor for, other than preventive medicine. If every doctor visit was preventive, then no one would ever have to pay their doctor anything. And even if there is no co-pay, the deductible will kill you until that's been met.
    I've Been Boo'd
    Thanks, Barry
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My little dogs - two heartbeats at my feet.
    by Edith Wharton & Me
    Sparky the Fuzzbutt - PT's DOTD 8/3/2010
    RIP 2/28/1999~10/9/2012
    Myndi the Fuzzbutt - Mom's DOTD - Everyday
    RIP 1/24/1996~8/9/2013
    Ellie - Mom to the Fuzzbuttz

    To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    The clock of life is wound but once and no man has the power
    To know just when the hands will stop - on what day, or what hour.
    Now is the only time you have, so live it with a will -
    Don't wait until tomorrow - the hands may then be still.
    ~~~~true author unknown~~~~

  9. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    20,867
    In Canada public health is paid for through our taxes. I think there are still one or two provinces that charge an additional health care premium, which people under a certain income don't have to pay.

    Just so I understand the new US health care - does that mean one still has to pay for government coverage? When we had premiums in Alberta I think the max for a family was under $200 monthly, but don't quote me on that.
    "Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." -Oscar Wilde

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    24,963
    The SCOTUS determined that the federal government couldn't require the states to expand Medicaid to help cover more people. I've read in the paper that with Illinois Medicaid, the system is so prone to fraud and abuse that large amounts of money are being lost that could be spent providing care. So in my mind, we're back to the same problem which is many, many uninsured and under-insured people.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

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  11. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Posts
    20,625
    One thing they really need to do is monitor the hospitals. I had to go in for an overnight procedure in 1999. I took my medicines with me like they told me to do. Then the stinkers gave me my own medicine and CHARGED ME FOR IT!!! (I had counted my pills and knew exactly how many I had) I called them out about it and they did finally take that charge off the bill. Still they wouldn't take the 10 dollars for a box of tissues I never touched off though.
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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  12. #27
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    Sep 2007
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    Delaware, USA - The First State/Diamond State - home of The Blue Hens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catty1 View Post

    Just so I understand the new US health care - does that mean one still has to pay for government coverage? .
    You bet. I'm over 65 and on government Medicare, and I'll continue to have to pay that. My concern is that Medicare will reduce what they now cover, which is far from everything now anyway, and most of what's paid, is only paid at 80% of the cost. That's where private supplemental insurance comes in - to help out with that other 20%. My supplemental policy is a high option one (you can get lesser coverage), and they pay everything that Medicare doesn't. Between the 2 insurances, I have never paid so much as one cent to any doctor, hospital, lab, etc, since I have had it. I do pay for any occasional prescriptions that I might need tho, since I don't carry that coverage, but I take nothing on a regular basis.
    I've Been Boo'd
    Thanks, Barry
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    My little dogs - two heartbeats at my feet.
    by Edith Wharton & Me
    Sparky the Fuzzbutt - PT's DOTD 8/3/2010
    RIP 2/28/1999~10/9/2012
    Myndi the Fuzzbutt - Mom's DOTD - Everyday
    RIP 1/24/1996~8/9/2013
    Ellie - Mom to the Fuzzbuttz

    To everything there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
    Ecclesiastes 3:1
    The clock of life is wound but once and no man has the power
    To know just when the hands will stop - on what day, or what hour.
    Now is the only time you have, so live it with a will -
    Don't wait until tomorrow - the hands may then be still.
    ~~~~true author unknown~~~~

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio USA
    Posts
    11,464
    Snakemama said it best, "don't let perfect get in the way of good".

    Something has to be done to fix this healthcare mess. Perhaps by making the entire nation involved in it- willingly or not- we, as the populus, can bring the health insurance companies back into conformity. Healthcare belongs in the hands of the doctors/nurses/healthcare providers. Not the people with NO medical training, who get to decide that open heart surgery = 2.43 days, and 10 minutes is enough for a pediatric newborn visit. Health insurance (actually, ALL insurance) companies continue to return high profits, doing less with less. Right now, the population most greatly affected by no insurance (our lower income'd and seniors) have NO voice. They don't have insurance, they can't complain, switch insurance companies, make a difference, etc.

    I pay $257 a month for family coverage, preventatives are 'free', and I have a $5000.00 deductible. Thank God I am healthy, and pray that J remains so, too. There has to be something 'better' than that. One trip to the ER would set me back tremendously. This isn't really a good plan. To get something more in line with reasonable, I would pay over $750 a month. I can't swing that. While I recognize the need for health insurance, I can't afford health insurance. What I have is a catastrophic type of coverage. $5000 deductible.

    We all have to do things we don't like: pay taxes on schools we don't use, property tax when services aren't that great. Heck, I pay a 'stadium tax' to subsidize the sports arena here, and I have never seen a game! Car insurance, I pay it. Go to another state and I pay their sales tax. The list goes on. I have to wear a seat belt, my child needs to be properly restrained, too. My dog has to have a county tag, and sometimes I have to pay tolls on roads that I know have been paid off for eons! Not sure why THIS is such a sore spot with people.

    Basic health care, to me, is a necessity. Not a luxury. Anyone going without has an effect on the entire system. While this might not be perfect, it is a good start.

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    South Hero Vermont
    Posts
    4,747

    And what about dental coverage?

    That is another sore subject and should be considered health insurance coverage. How can teeth, gums etc. not be related to one's health. Dentists in VT charge horribly high prices and live expensive existances as well. I don't mind people making money, but why SO much? Greed! And stupid consumers.

    Someone mentioned that if we do enroll millions of new health insurance folks, we will have a long wait for a Dr. appt. So? I am sure an emergency would be just that. I should think the Dr.s would be thrilled to have more people to carve on or stick. And paying ones to boot!

    I, too, think we will see this insurance tax evolve and hopefully be fair, available to all humans and cheap!

  15. #30
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    If the USA gets dental insurance you'll be way ahead of Canada!
    "Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken." -Oscar Wilde

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