Politics and religion.

[RICHARD]

Now,

I don't go to church, I believe in a god, Karma isn't a brand of Volkswagon and Hell can be here on Earth...but....


Everyone is hemming and hawing about what the dip shirt that is Obama's spiritual advisor said. I could really care less about what he said.

But am I the only one who has a problem about WHERE he said it?

According to B.O., the older you get, you have more of a pass for being a jerk. This AH is supposed to be come kind of cleric and he's spewing crap like that in a CHURCH? The thing I found most offensive was the little thing he did while talking about Bill Clinton and Lewinsky. (I am not a BC fan.)

The rev showed that he deserves no respect for "acting the fool" in a house of worship.

Not only that, I was expecting the Gray Panthers to put up a stink about how they are being portrayed - as dottering old racist fools.

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I left the church because of an Easter Sunday incident - the priest began to rail about the standing room only inside the building. Apparently he wasn't too happy about the Holiday Patrons in attendance. If he didn't make the effort to try and get people to come back next Sunday, I figured I could do something else with my time.

Like catch the early morning Sunday sports with my sinner friends.

Beer and Football. Amen.

[Pam]

I can't believe I am the first one to post on this. My own personal opinion on this is that if I had ever attended a church where someone shouted these things from the pulpit I would never return. In fact, it wouldn't even need to be racial/political things that would drive me away. I have left churches before and would not hesitate to do so again if there was a good reason.

That all said, I do think Obama's speech was excellent. I have never lived as a black woman and really do not know what life would be like as one except from what I am told. I think the fact that this has opened up a dialog is excellent. Sooner or later it would have come up, should he become President, so it is best to do it now. Not every white person is KKK USA, per the pastor nor is every black person someone to be feared (and thus cross to the other side of the street to avoid). Unfortunately many people still have these views so it is good to get them out in the open and air them out a little and, hopefully, see how far we have come.

One thing that was said was that the most segregated hour of the week begins at 11:00 AM on Sunday mornings. Today if that is the case it is because people want to be segregated rather than because they have to. The churches that I have attended have all had black people in attendance, but the racial make-up has mostly been white. Though I have never worshipped in a black church, my daughter and my daughter-in-law have. They were warmly welcomed and there was none of the kind of hatred being spewed from the pulpit that this pastor seemed to frequently dish out. The worship service was quite different from what they were used to, but it is merely a cultural difference, with the singing and *praising* being quite different than what you would find in most white churches.

My concern with this pastor is the fact that he used the pulpit for something other than what he was ordained to do, and that is to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. This was not teaching IMO. It was brainwashing and inciting people and that should NEVER be done in a house of worship of any kind by anyone.

I can sympathize with Sen. Obama for not wanting to cut himself off from a close friend of 20 years who has become such cause of embarrassment to him now. He is to be commended for his loyalty. What I just don't understand, though, is how that friendship ever got started if this pastor has always held these views. If he has and Obama knows it, staying in that church remains very puzzling to me and does cast a bit of a cloud over him.

[momoffuzzyfaces]

The matter of race has always whizzed right over my head. I've never seen the sense of not liking someone just based on their color.

I think the reason lots of ministers use the pulpit to spout their own racial hatreds is because they have a captive audiance. People don't want to offend God by walking out. I would have been out the door in a heartbeat, however, if I was ever in a church with all that stuff being said. God would have been the first one out the door, I'm sure.

[RICHARD]

BO isn't going to let go for a few reasons.

First, The BS he'll get again for not being black enough or being too white.

2. MONEY MONEY MONEY. It's the thing that greases the skids. People will punish him by withholding contributions.

3. Flip flopping. If anything the new breed of politicos have learned not to veer from any ideals, lest they be called flip floppers. It don't look good when the media plays your old speeches.

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This is an extreme example but let's try anyway?


I had a long time friend who owns a beagle.

When I visit anyone's home where there is a pet I expect to get sniffed in the crotch, hair on my clothes, slobbered on and nipped at.

(my best gal pal did have a weineramer -sp?- that would grab my wrist and try to pull me outside...it hurt but who am I to protest?)

Anyway,
When the beagle would get next to me I would scratch his ears-the dog would respond by jumping up on me, following me around and climbing into my lap. The dog was literally crying and whimpering because I was paying attention to him.

The "friend" started to yell at the dog, grabbed him by the collar and pulled him off of me.

I told him it was O.K.

He answered that the dog wasn't allowed to jump on people, climb on the couch, sniff people -the list went on and on. He then went and put the dog outside, where the poor thing sat at the window and stared.

Later, when his wife and kids were out of earshot he confided in me that he couldn't stand the dog and only put up with him because of the wife and kids.

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After 25 years of knowing this guy in school and life, it hit me that I really didn't know him at all. He wanted to control every aspect of his world....down to an animal who was thrilled to see someone who didn't mind a little attention.

With that in mind I didn't have any problems putting distance between us.

And I really don't any problems with my decision.

[Pam]

I just thought of something else. Hubby said he heard a bit of Rev. Wright's sermon (granted, not a lot) and hubby took one of his statements to mean that he (The Rev.) was taking a side for the Palestinians and against Israel. Of course the U.S. position is pro-Israel. I am hoping that Senator Obama was able to recycle this sermon to his own personal mental *trash bin,* and then press Delete, along with a lot of the other garbage that he has been hearing for 20 years.

[caseysmom]

I think it would be refreshing for our president to look at both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian issue, I think our hard stance in that area has not helped anything or anybody.

[RICHARD]

I think it would be refreshing for our president to look at both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian issue, I think our hard stance in that area has not helped anything or anybody.

That's a tough one, there have been many attempts by the U.S. to bring both sides together.

You have to look at the history of Israel and the area to understand the conflict. It's a complex situation and both sides haven't been pristine when it comes to the politics that keep them at odds.

The Palestine Liberation Organization has kept their thumb on their own people. Yassar Arafat stole millions, possibly billions of dollars from the people he represented.

Keeping the people in the area poor and uneducated, hungry and dependent on the government is one way to plant the seeds of discontent. Blaming the neighbors for the problems at home keeps the heat off of you.

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The U.S. has been blamed for everything in the Middle East for years.
The whole thought is that our government has provided money, arms and support for the Israeli government. The PLO has just enough money to buy arms and put together rockets to fight.The rest of the money goes to buying the faith of the citizens.

The PLO is a great BS machine. The PLO will launch rockets into Israel, when Israel strikes back the PLO rebuilds the houses that were destroyed and offers monetary and food support to the people affected.

The people are bought with this kind of Terrorist FEMA.

You cannot say bad things when a bunch of thugs help you recover from an attack that they start...

Did I mention the fact that your house was bombed because the PLO has a clubhouse in your area from where the attacks were launched?


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Here's one thought that bounced around in my empty skull for a while.

Why are there so many clips of the rev being naughty?

If he had a momentary lapse of reason, I'd give him the Dottering Old Fool Pass-of-the-Week, But that and the comments on the Natalie Holloway cases really make me question his morality.

[dukedogsmom]

Boy do you and I think alike! I'd like to tell that idiot "man of God" to get the hell out of the U.S. and take his preidential candidate with him. I never thought I'd be saying this but, Go Hillary!

I left my church for some similar reasons and if I'm not mistaken, on Easter, also. It was something I overheard from a young adult. I think he's a deacon now, not sure. Thank goodness I heard it and not a stranger. Some of the best hypocrites can be found in church. I'll join you for a cold beer.

ETA: I just read your page 4 rant and you are so right! You are awesome. Where are all the mummies and daddies now? Everything is supposed to be "for the children". Why aren't they taking better care of the earth? It's an all about me world. Screw the planet.

[cassiesmom]

"America is back" -- Pres. Obama

Really? Sure doesn't feel like it to me. I've seen my property value almost double and then return to exactly where it was when I bought it. Everything costs more, gasoline, milk, my health insurance. And I'm getting less. I'm paying the same price for ice cream and getting 1 1/2 quarts instead of half a gallon. Lots of people are still unemployed. Lots of people can't get the health care they need. America will be back when people are working and the economy is robust again.

Also -- I don't think it is right that in an election year the current President uses the State of the Union address as a campaign speech. That is not the purpose of the address.

Thanks for letting me rant!

[pomtzu]

Agreed - 100+%

[Karen]

If you look back in recent history, every sitting President who was up for reelection used the State of the Union for that purpose. This is nothing new.

[lizbud]

If you look back in recent history, every sitting President who was up for reelection used the State of the Union for that purpose. This is nothing new.

Yes,..........." it was ever thus" besides I'm a glass half full sort of person, or I try to be. We already know the bad stuff
I want to hear about the future, perferably the good stuff.

[kuhio98]

"America is back" -- Pres. Obama

Really? Sure doesn't feel like it to me. I've seen my property value almost double and then return to exactly where it was when I bought it. Everything costs more, gasoline, milk, my health insurance. And I'm getting less. I'm paying the same price for ice cream and getting 1 1/2 quarts instead of half a gallon. Lots of people are still unemployed. Lots of people can't get the health care they need. America will be back when people are working and the economy is robust again.

Also -- I don't think it is right that in an election year the current President uses the State of the Union address as a campaign speech. That is not the purpose of the address.

Thanks for letting me rant!

100% agree also. The current administration doesn't get it. They have no plan -- except to recycle ideas that have failed before. All my Hope for Change has disappeared. My faith is gone also.

It occured to me during the last election -- Is this the best we've got? I couldn't get excited about any of the candidates last time, and I'm feeling the same way these days.

[Karen]

I merged the State of the Union thread into this one, as of course, it's all Politics!

[Randi]

OK, I admit I don't know much about US politics, but my impression of B. Obama is very positive - the American people who live here also seem to prefer him. It seems a lot of you don't like him. Do you think another president would have done better? In the light of the financial crisis (which is not B. Obama's fault, and that is an entirely different discussion), I think the outcome could have been far worse. At least B. Obama is trying to do something for the less wealthy people and he withdrew the troops from Iraq.

Can you imagine what would have happened if any of these other ignorant candidates had made it into politics! I think you got a good deal with B. Obama. If only we were so lucky here!