Thread: Politics and religion.

  1. #2986
    THis is very much against my better judgement, however, I feel forced by the tone of some of the comments to say something.........

    Public sector unions.......yep, we're all about greed. I admit it.

    The Unions in the postal service have nothing to do with the thousands of workers who used to sit in hold rooms waiting to sort mail.......off the clock. They were required to be there, not getting paid, waiting to be called on to work, at which point they'd clock in and go to work.

    Nah, the 8 in 10 rule we have in our contract is just about greed.

    They have nothing to do with protecting workers' bids. Management would never do something like hire someone based on an offered job then change the hours making it impossible for the new hire to follow their original plans......

    Management would never refuse to post a needed job because they didn't like the person who was going to get it.....

    No school board would ever fire a teacher just for personal pique....

    No town would ever fire a highway worker because the worker ran for a political position and lost.....

    Nope, government agencies are pure as the wind driven snow, and would never violate labor laws or ethical standards of conduct, and would never, EVER use their relatively unlimited funds to fight a worker in court over an improper firing or unsafe working conditions.

    Patronage doesn't exist in government, and there's no need for standards of conduct to be contractually enforced. No government agency would EVER hire someone because of politics.....

    Unions exist in the public sector for the same reason they exist in the private sector...........to avoid the abuse of power by management. Toss political power into the mix, and it can, and has, gotten ugly in short order. The APWU is in contract negotiations right now, and the wage scale is the least of my concerns.

    What's going on in Wisconsin has nothing to do with excessive spending, the Union(s) have offered concessions in those areas. This is about breaking the collective bargaining rights for public employees nationwide.



    This statement has been brought to you by a corrupt, greedy local union official, a fat cat living off of the money from dues paying workers. The $248.56 I get every quarter from the Union is the only reason I deal with the phone calls at home, people waiting for me at the time clock, negotiating with management only to see the deals broken minutes later, high blood pressure and headaches.
    Last edited by Lady's Human; 02-24-2011 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #2987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    Unions exist in the public sector for the same reason they exist in the private sector...........to avoid the abuse of power by management. Toss political power into the mix, and it can, and has, gotten ugly in short order. The APWU is in contract negotiations right now, and the wage scale is the least of my concerns.

    What's going on in Wisconsin has nothing to do with excessive spending, the Union(s) have offered concessions in those areas. This is about breaking the collective bargaining rights for public employees nationwide.

    But Lady's Human-- can it be said that a labor union is also a power-holding entity? Isn't that the goal of negotiations, so that neither side ends up with nothing because the other side had all the power? We've moved away from child labor and horrendously unsafe working conditions that came about because of imbalances of power.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  3. #2988
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    THis is very much against my better judgement, however, I feel forced by the tone of some of the comments to say something.........

    Public sector unions.......yep, we're all about greed. I admit it.

    The Unions in the postal service have nothing to do with the thousands of workers who used to sit in hold rooms waiting to sort mail.......off the clock. They were required to be there, not getting paid, waiting to be called on to work, at which point they'd clock in and go to work.

    Nah, the 8 in 10 rule we have in our contract is just about greed.

    They have nothing to do with protecting workers' bids. Management would never do something like hire someone based on an offered job then change the hours making it impossible for the new hire to follow their original plans......

    Management would never refuse to post a needed job because they didn't like the person who was going to get it.....

    No school board would ever fire a teacher just for personal pique....

    No town would ever fire a highway worker because the worker ran for a political position and lost.....

    Nope, government agencies are pure as the wind driven snow, and would never violate labor laws or ethical standards of conduct, and would never, EVER use their relatively unlimited funds to fight a worker in court over an improper firing or unsafe working conditions.

    Patronage doesn't exist in government, and there's no need for standards of conduct to be contractually enforced. No government agency would EVER hire someone because of politics.....

    Unions exist in the public sector for the same reason they exist in the private sector...........to avoid the abuse of power by management. Toss political power into the mix, and it can, and has, gotten ugly in short order. The APWU is in contract negotiations right now, and the wage scale is the least of my concerns.

    What's going on in Wisconsin has nothing to do with excessive spending, the Union(s) have offered concessions in those areas. This is about breaking the collective bargaining rights for public employees nationwide.
    If this kind of stuff was what it was all about.... I would be behind you 100%. I cannot think of an honest person who would not support the rights of people to be safe in their workplace.

    But it's not JUST about that and you know it.

    How much do you contribute to your pension? How much do we? What happens if the economy tanks? Does your pension lose value? Is there a chance, that once you retire you might not have that pension?

    Don't get me wrong.... I am in NO way jealous of what you have. I've been told that, that I am 'jealous' of the lavish benefits certain unions enjoy. Please...

    If you can't tell.... Its the issue of forever pensions that boils my blood. At least private companies have to answer to their shareholders... Unless you are GM and get bailed out... By US!

    Finally, don't take this personally, because its not.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  4. #2989
    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
    If this kind of stuff was what it was all about.... I would be behind you 100%. I cannot think of an honest person who would not support the rights of people to be safe in their workplace.

    But it's not JUST about that and you know it.
    AT the raw level of a local, this is entirely what it's all about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post

    How much do you contribute to your pension? How much do we? What happens if the economy tanks? Does your pension lose value? Is there a chance, that once you retire you might not have that pension?
    Pension? You mean the prorated "annuity" I get under FERS? It's not much, look it up. My "pension" is a thrift saving plan, AKA a 401-K. If the market tanks, my TSP tanks, very simple. It's MY money, with an agency match, and I pay FICA as well. THe BS being fed to the public by the MSM is the way it USED to be under CSRS. FERS is a whole different breed of cat. In addition, my pension, such as it is, is subject to Congressional whims. If a corporation raids their pension fund, they're subject to federal action. If My employer raids the pension funds (to the tune of $149 BILLION dollars, look it up) it's just another day in DC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
    Don't get me wrong.... I am in NO way jealous of what you have. I've been told that, that I am 'jealous' of the lavish benefits certain unions enjoy. Please...

    If you can't tell.... Its the issue of forever pensions that boils my blood. At least private companies have to answer to their shareholders... Unless you are GM and get bailed out... By US!

    Finally, don't take this personally, because its not.
    Again, WHAT forever pension? Where do I sign up?

  5. #2990
    Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    But Lady's Human-- can it be said that a labor union is also a power-holding entity? Isn't that the goal of negotiations, so that neither side ends up with nothing because the other side had all the power? We've moved away from child labor and horrendously unsafe working conditions that came about because of imbalances of power.
    We've moved away from unsafe working conditions? Tell that to the USPS employee in Nashville who was ordered to work in a dock area with broken hydraulic equipment, resulting in injury to an employee.

    The APWU was trying to get the USPS to comply with arc-flash regulations for years, instead, after being ignored for years, the Union went to OSHA, resulting in millions in fines. People hammer Ford for their infamous decision regarding the Pinto (cheaper to pay the claims rather than to fix the problem) but your government makes the same decisions day after day regarding the workers.

    Is a Union a power holding entity? Yes, but only in the sense that an individual cannot go to Congress and lobby to save their job..........but a Union can go to congress and be heard.

    Yes, Puck we evil union officers lobby Congress.............as do corporations, and we have nowhere near the capital resources that a corporation does.

  6. #2991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    AT the raw level of a local, this is entirely what it's all about.



    Pension? You mean the prorated "annuity" I get under FERS? It's not much, look it up. My "pension" is a thrift saving plan, AKA a 401-K. If the market tanks, my TSP tanks, very simple. It's MY money, with an agency match, and I pay FICA as well. THe BS being fed to the public by the MSM is the way it USED to be under CSRS. FERS is a whole different breed of cat. In addition, my pension, such as it is, is subject to Congressional whims. If a corporation raids their pension fund, they're subject to federal action. If My employer raids the pension funds (to the tune of $149 BILLION dollars, look it up) it's just another day in DC.



    Again, WHAT forever pension? Where do I sign up?
    Thanks for the knowledge.

    What you get is fair it seems. I hope you did not take it on the chin too bad of late.... Its much different than the local teacher's union.

    ---

    Please stop it with the "evil" BS. I know you are not evil. I know the average working joe in a union is not evil. You sound like somebody else who posts here....


    ---

    Maybe you need to find another job? It sounds like you have a high frustration level. You said you have system engineer skills. Give me your resume. At my company, you get to be a peer with everyone, even the owners.

    Can you speak AS400? I have an opportunity for just such a person.

    I am NOT patronizing you. I'm serious. This still is America. If your job is killing you....
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  7. #2992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    Yes, Puck we evil union officers lobby Congress.............as do corporations, and we have nowhere near the capital resources that a corporation does.
    I've got almost zero problems with lobbyists. They are a natural part of any democratic system.

    The problem is politicians who lets themselves take illegal 'perks'. But that is a whole different convo.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  8. #2993
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    I don't do any work for labor. But, I do work in the employment arena (private, non union). To hear people say there is no 'need' for unions is simply, utterly, ridiculous. The public sector, with organized labour, still sets the bar for the employment arena.

    It is a dream to say, "there is not a need for unions". A big, fat, dream. I represent the employer....not the employee. It is just so sad the things I hear on a weekly basis.

    Go Union.

    -signed a person that has never worked FOR a union, with no family member EVER being IN a union.

  9. Sorry boys that I am not familiar with your vulgar "f" talk.

    You see ... Sex is like money...people who really have it don't talk about it.

    Do carry on!

  10. #2995
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    You're one, twice, three times a lay-deh........

  11. #2996
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasvermont View Post
    CF = cluster f**k

    I don't usually add much to this topic, but I do know what CF means. It was my favorite term while working with lawyers for 30 some years.
    I just looked this up on Urban Dictionary-- some days this expression totally describes my work situation! Especially when the managers have been in lengthy meetings and aren't aware of what has occurred while they were gone. That's an apt description for those moments. Thanks, sasvermont for giving me a laugh today!


    Quote Originally Posted by Lady's Human View Post
    We've moved away from unsafe working conditions?
    I was thinking of the kind of extreme work conditions Upton Sinclair wrote about in "The Jungle". What a working person would have encountered in 1911, not 2011. Maybe I should have chosen a different phrase. My error.

    I think I should stay out of this topic now. Don't want to end up saying something amiss. Off to Thursdays for cocoa.
    Last edited by cassiesmom; 02-24-2011 at 10:38 PM. Reason: Revised my post. Should have thought better before I typed!
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  12. #2997
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    but I've got a 3-word answer: accidental needle sticks.
    SHARPS container!

  13. #2998
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    SHARPS container!
    exactly- the darn thing was too full and we were taking it out of the holder for environmental services to discard.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  14. At my company, you get to be a peer with everyone, even the owners.
    That is easier to achieve when you have 10 or 20 employees.

    Not so easy when you have 30,000 or even 100.

    That is what unions do. Level the playing field. Put the worker bees on more of a peer level with management.

    You are prepared to deny other employees the same working conditions you enjoy?

  15. #3000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    That is easier to achieve when you have 10 or 20 employees.

    Not so easy when you have 30,000 or even 100.

    That is what unions do. Level the playing field. Put the worker bees on more of a peer level with management.

    You are prepared to deny other employees the same working conditions you enjoy?
    Who is denying them the same opportunity? It sure is not me. Those people made a choice to join the union. When you cast your lot in with the "collective", your enjoy the benefits and sometimes the negatives of being part of a 'collective'. Because remember, when you are part of a union, the union HAS to treat EVERYone equally, even the turds. Isn't there a saying about one bad apple? Also, the working conditions I 'enjoy' are not an accident. I busted my ass for a long time to be able to enjoy the freedom I do. And our little company did it ON OUR OWN.

    A former client of ours, a company that assembled truck frames. There was a year long battle with the shop unionizing. The company bent over backwards for their people. They told them the honest truth. The workers voted to unionize anyway. 3 months later the doors were shut.

    But hey... I've got zero problems with private company union shops. And if a private company is treating their employees poorly, the workers need to do what they need to do. But sometimes, as was the case of the example I used above, the guy driving an air gun got it in his head somewhere that he deserves $35 an hour, fully paid medical and 3 weeks off a year. I wonder where he got that idea?

    Economics is a cruel master I suppose. (I know, its not about the money.....)
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

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