Thread: Politics and religion.

  1. #2956
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    Where's The Money Coming From For All This? Where Did The Money Go To? Is Someone Going Broke Or Are They Already Broke?

  2. United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

    It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

    It is also the premise behind unions.

  3. #2958
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

    It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

    It is also the premise behind unions.
    Similar thoughts go back further than the Founding Fathers. From Matthew 12:25 -

    And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

    Lincoln used these works in an address he gave on June 16, 1858, in Springfield, Illinois, upon accepting the Illinois Republican Party's nomination as that state's United States senator.

  4. #2959
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    What is the National Review? Is it a conservative publication? This author writes for them. It was printed in the Chicago Tribune, which is also conservative.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7574542.column
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  5. #2960
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    United We Stand Divided We Fall a phrase used by George Washington, Patrick Henry, Ben Franklin and many other "founding fathers".

    It was how they believed America must behave in order to be successful.

    It is also the premise behind unions.
    Who is it that public employee unions collectively bargain against?

    The taxpayer.

    If that is the premise of public employee unions.... No thanks.

    Any wonder why so many people are so against PUBLIC employee unions?

    ---

    There are many people who believe in the unlimited power of the individual, when the individual is given the most Freedom possible to pursure their happiness. That does NOT mean we do not need each other.

    United we stand. United by what? Love of country? God?
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  6. #2961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    Similar thoughts go back further than the Founding Fathers. From Matthew 12:25 -

    And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

    Lincoln used these works in an address he gave on June 16, 1858, in Springfield, Illinois, upon accepting the Illinois Republican Party's nomination as that state's United States senator.
    What should Americans do then, to become more united?
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  7. Unions do not negotiate against anyone. I cannot imagine any negotiation that involves against. That defies the definition of "negotiations."

    Public sector unions negotiate with the public sector administration - the school board, the mayor - the department of farming - whatever is the administrative body for which they work.

    To suggest public sector unions negotiate against or even with the taxpayers is analogous to saying that private sector unions negotiate against - or with the consumer of the goods or services that union is involved with providing.

    I have been involved in a few union campaigns. It has never been about money - initially. It is about the supervisors, the fairness with which the employees feel they are being treated.

    I don't advocate unions. I have worked "on the other side" my whole career. I have made many speeches, home mailers, etc. about why it is better without a union. And I believe that in most cases. I have managed campaigns to defeat unions in elections and have won more than I lost.

    I believe the Employee Free Choice Act is wrong and have written my congresspersons about it.

    But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?

    That is the heart of the issue.

  8. #2963
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    I "unioned" for 30 years and it was a CF.

    So, by not having any experience in the 'private sector' I humbly will keep my opinions to myself.

    ------------------


    Check it out.

    MG wants to fight to the last drop of blood.

    Hey, whatever happened to the hack that wanted the "Mother of all Battles?"

    And if Hugo Chavez gets overthrown, will Sean Penn and Oliver Stone run down to rescue him?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by RICHARD View Post
    I "unioned" for 30 years and it was a CF.

    So, by not having any experience in the 'private sector' I humbly will keep my opinions to myself.
    Two questions....what does "CF" mean? And secondly - I thought you worked for KP? That would be the 'private sector.'

    So as not to confuse people - the public sector - means working for a federal, state or local government.

    Everything else is the private sector.

  10. #2965
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    semantics.

  11. semantics. Okay....up or down - just semantics. Right left - just semantics...Use them interchangably...right?

    So what does "CF" mean?

  12. #2967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    But why should public sector employees have less rights than private sector?
    I don't see it as public sector ee's having less rights; just different rights. That's because my tax dollars pay their salary. They are providing services that keep our society running in an organized fashion - everything from collecting trash to the practice of law in the state's attorney's office. When they agree to work in the public sector, there are certain things they give up in exchange for what they gain.

    For example, I did agency work at a local hospital operated by the county health services bureau. They observed the federal holidays like Columbus Day, Veterans' Day and Dr. King's birthday - three additional days off with pay per employee per year. Their health benefit plan (for both employees and retirees) was waaaay more robust than private settings. They had access to purchasing plans for big-ticket items at deep discounts, theater and amusement park tickets, tax-free uniform purchasing (again at deep discounts), and I could go on from there. They were getting cheap prescription drugs long before Wal-Mart came up with their $4 generics. They had preferential hiring that the private sector doesn't get - they hardly ever hired from outside and they paid their existing employees gobs of overtime instead of hiring additional staff.

    They could retire far earlier than the private sector. The manager to whom I reported was preparing to retire at 55. She would collect a full pension and go on to work for another 10-12 years in a completely different setting.

    So ... in my mind ... public sector employee, you're working for me as a taxpayer. You chose that setting when you accepted the position. You might not realize just how good you have it as opposed to the rest of us. Take it or leave it.
    Yikes! I've been Boo'd ... right off of the stage!
    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  13. Cassiesmom - I don't disagree. But I can tell you what my brother, who works for the federal government would say - Yes, government employees have many benefits - but the pay is lower. That is the trade off. He could make much more money working in the private sector - but he likes what he does and he likes that it benefits people.

    You are paying the wages of every employee. When you buy an automobile you are paying the wages of the workers who make the cars. But a can of beans - you are paying the wages of the people who picked the beans and the people who canned them. When you make a phone call you are paying the wages of people who work for the phone company.

    But I said it before and I'll say it again. If the public sector benefits are too high - negotiate with them - reduce them.

    But why take away the right other employees have - the right to stand united in their relationship with their employer? They did not give that up - now some folks are trying to take away a right they had when they took the job. For political reasons.

    By the way...do you know what "CF" means?

  14. #2969
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    Cialis Factory????
    don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die....

    I have been frosted!

    Thanks Kfamr for the signature!


  15. #2970
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonny View Post
    where's the money coming from for all this? Where did the money go to? Is someone going broke or are they already broke?
    誰是你真正想擁有的國家呢????它必須是中國...對嗎???
    我認為貴國政府已錯失良機。

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