Thread: Politics and religion.

  1. Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    1. Why do they still get paid for not doing their jobs?
    Perhaps, to the people who elected them and to the 70,000 people braving the Wisconsin winter to protest the bill - they ARE doing their job.

    The unions have agreed to the financial concessions the governor claims to need. But he will not compromise. He will only accept destroying the unions.

  2. #2942
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    Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    I have two questions about the stuff going on in Wisconsin. Apparently, the Democrats have gone into hiding to avoid voting on a bill they don't like. SO:
    1. Why do they still get paid for not doing their jobs?

    2. Who is paying the bill for the hotel across the state line where they are 'hiding out'?

    Just wondering.
    I guess they have not found out that Hosni Mubarak has 'retired'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    Perhaps, to the people who elected them and to the 70,000 people braving the Wisconsin winter to protest the bill - they ARE doing their job.

    The unions have agreed to the financial concessions the governor claims to need. But he will not compromise. He will only accept destroying the unions.
    Ok, maybe the are making 70,000 people (and the unions) happy but if they don't get their tail feathers back to Washington and pass a bill to keep the government running by March 4th, more than that number will be without their pay checks next month. All gov employees, social secuity and disability people and probably others I can't think off will get shafted because they are too chicken to do their job. They don't have to vote the way the govenor wants them too after all.
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    Ok, maybe the are making 70,000 people (and the unions) happy but if they don't get their tail feathers back to Washington and pass a bill to keep the government running by March 4th, more than that number will be without their pay checks next month. All gov employees, social secuity and disability people and probably others I can't think off will get shafted because they are too chicken to do their job. They don't have to vote the way the govenor wants them too after all.
    MOFF- these are Wisconsin State Senators. They are not members of the national senate. They do not go to Washington - they legislate in Madison WI - the state capital. There are two Wisconsin Senators who go to Washington - these 14 are members of the state senate and deal with strictly Wisconsin state. Whether they return to Madison or not will have no impact on what happens in Washington.

  5. #2945
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    Quote Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces View Post
    Ok, maybe the are making 70,000 people (and the unions) happy but if they don't get their tail feathers back to Washington and pass a bill to keep the government running by March 4th, more than that number will be without their pay checks next month. All gov employees, social secuity and disability people and probably others I can't think off will get shafted because they are too chicken to do their job. They don't have to vote the way the govenor wants them too after all.
    They state senators are a bunch of local yokels with no allegiance to the people that voted them in, instead of fighting, they tuck tail and go hang out next door and will come back when they feel like it.

    Also, the union have no effing responsibility to the members, they only want to keep the power to make money and increase union dues so they can keep their 'union' jobs.

    When I was part of the SEIU those emm effers paid Jesse Jackson some outrageous amount of money, his hotel and traveling expenses to give a talk to the membership.

    As far as I am concerned? That moron didn't represent me and I was irritated they (Union) spent the money to sponsor that shyster.

    -----------------------------

    That is what they get for winning the Super Bowl.

  6. #2946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    MOFF- these are Wisconsin State Senators. They are not members of the national senate. They do not go to Washington - they legislate in Madison WI - the state capital. There are two Wisconsin Senators who go to Washington - these 14 are members of the state senate and deal with strictly Wisconsin state. Whether they return to Madison or not will have no impact on what happens in Washington.
    Well, for heavens sake!!! I never knew that!!! The news keeps saying they need to get back to Washington so I just thought they were the senators we all vote for for our states to go to Washington. Specially since they keep saying the President should step in. I did think it down right odd that all the Democrat Senators would hide because of what was going on in Wisconsin. OOPSIE!!!
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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    Leonardo (RB), Luke (RB), Winnie, Chuck,

    Frankie

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    WHERE YOU ARE IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!!
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  7. #2947
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    Here's an editorial that helped me "get it" more with respect to the protests up in Madison, Wisconsin.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7841218.column

    Sorry, public employees, but the private sector is being asked to make bigger contributions to our benefit packages and pensions and we are also seeing our pension plans drop. It's been different for you. I get that you're being asked to do more with less... welcome to my world!
    I've been Boo'd ... right off the stage!

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    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

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  8. #2948
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    One thing I do know is if the President doesn't allow US companies to drill for oil in are own waters, we will be in deep dodo very very soon. Most of the countries we get our oil from are in turmoil. There is already talk of 5 to 7 dollars for a gallon of gas this summer.
    No matter what anyone does, someone some where will be offended some how!!!!
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    MY BLESSINGS:
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    Grandma (RB), Chester, Angel, Chip

    Leonardo (RB), Luke (RB), Winnie, Chuck,

    Frankie

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    WHERE YOU ARE IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE!!!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  9. Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    Here's an editorial that helped me "get it" more with respect to the protests up in Madison, Wisconsin.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...7841218.column

    Sorry, public employees, but the private sector is being asked to make bigger contributions to our benefit packages and pensions and we are also seeing our pension plans drop. It's been different for you. I get that you're being asked to do more with less... welcome to my world!
    Cassiesmom - Again, I am not a fan of unions - I have worked with them, negotiated with them and fought them. But the article you cited - is about as one sided as it gets. The public sector employees surely need their contracts reined in - but I do not think it is right to destroy them. If they agree to the economic consessions - why is it necessary to destroy the union - to take away their bargaining rights?

    The saying is that employers that get a union deserve a union. Unions are designed to balance the playing field between employers and workers.

    And once the public sector unions are gone - they will go after the private sector unions. It is all about power.

    An interesting side note- what governor of California signed the legislature that brought public sector unions to California? Ronald Reagan.

    So - cut back the benefits of public sector unions at the bargaining table.

    p.s. Here's an article from last June that may give balance to the issue. Destroying public unions is not being drvien by the so-called "budget crisis" in Wisconsin - it is a strategy of the GOP.

    union busting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    Cassiesmom - Again, I am not a fan of unions - I have worked with them, negotiated with them and fought them. But the article you cited - is about as one sided as it gets.

    p.s. Here's an article from last June that may give balance to the issue. Destroying public unions is not being drvien by the so-called "budget crisis" in Wisconsin - it is a strategy of the GOP.

    union busting
    But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.
    I've been Boo'd ... right off the stage!

    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  11. Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    But it's from the Chicago Tribune, though, and they are traditionally pretty conservative.
    Indeed the Chicago Tibune is conservative (but still my favorite paper!)

    But this is an editorial. Not about facts - about his opinion. And he has been with the Tribune for ages and is very, very right wing.

    Just look for the facts - and a little balance - on the situation. It will be around for at least the next two years...

  12. #2952
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    Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

    When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

    Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

    I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

    Thanks,
    elyse
    I've been Boo'd ... right off the stage!

    Aaahh, I have been defrosted! Thank you, Bonny and Asiel!
    Brrrr, I've been Frosted! Thank you, Asiel and Pomtzu!


    "That's the power of kittens (and puppies too, of course): They can reduce us to quivering masses of Jell-O in about two seconds flat and make us like it. Good thing they don't have opposable thumbs or they'd surely have taken over the world by now." -- Paul Lukas

    Cassie's Catster page: http://www.catster.com/cats/448678

  13. #2953
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edwina's Secretary View Post
    So - cut back the benefits of public sector unions at the bargaining table.
    I agree 100%. I am really disappointed with how the WI GOP is handling this.

    There is a HUGE difference about how you conduct business in a Republic. How things are going down in WI is NOT how a Republic should work. A pure Democracy? Yes. A Republic, no.


    ----

    If I were the WI Gov.... I'd ask the union to turn their pension plan into a IRA or 401k. Most of us are responsible for our retirement, why should they get a guaranteed pension at taxpayer expense, no matter what comes?
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

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  14. #2954
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    Just borrow another couple of trillion folks, and all of your problems will be solved

    http://dailybail.com/home/there-are-...g-part-ii.html

    Now this lady REALLY knows what she is talking about.

  15. #2955
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    Quote Originally Posted by cassiesmom View Post
    Labor union question... I know that labor unions were established when America was a more "production" nation, meaning we were assembling things like cars, TVs, appliances and toys that are now made in other countries. Can it be said that there is still a place for labor unions in America? (and I get that they represent teachers, musicians, airline pilots, police and fire fighters and even professional athletes - people who have nothing to do with production)

    When I worked at Hartford there was a statement in the employee handbook explaining why they did not have unions- basically they preferred to work directly with employees.

    Also-- even if the governor of Wisconsin does get what he's working for, is he going to get himself voted out of office over this? I'm thinking he might. Is winning the battle worth losing the war, so to speak?

    I've heard "working people didn't cause the crisis" as a rationale to not rescind collective bargaining, but at the same time -- I live in Illinois, where the state income tax just went up by two thirds, so as a working person, I'd have to say I'm being compelled to do something about the budget crisis here.

    Thanks,
    elyse
    Most governments in the world have rights based on the rights of men.

    Here, it is the rights of man.

    Individual vs. the collective. In a union, you all win or lose together. That is hte risk you take. On your own, you are free to pursue whatever you want. Go for it, per say. But on your own, you are also free to fail. Unions (generally speaking) protect those who fail. That is not how America is supposed to work.

    Freedom is not safety. Its not equality. Its not even fair. Its FREEDOM. We have laws to try and protect your right to pursue your happiness but there is no guarantee of results....


    "The greatest inequality of all is to try to make unequal things equal."
    Aristotle


    ETA:

    Think about it this way.

    What is the difference between "Yes WE can!" and "Yes I can!"

    Adam Smith got it right a long time ago.
    Last edited by Puckstop31; 02-22-2011 at 09:51 PM.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

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