Thread: Politics and religion.

  1. #2791
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    The victims in Tucson

    20 people were shot; 6 have died.

    Gabe Zimmerman, 30, Giffords community outreach director. He was recently engaged.

    John Roll, 63, the chief judge for the District of Arizona,

    Christina Taylor Green,9. Here is an article about her from the Washington Post.

    Dorwin Stoddard, 76.

    Dorthy Murray, 76.

    Phyllis Scheck, 79.

  2. #2792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
    Super. Now you can start the "Its all Palin's fault" and maybe leave ol' George alone.
    I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. I posted an article and then a quote. I provided the links. If you choose to attribute the thoughts in these articles to me, or anyone else on this board, you are way out of line.

  3. #2793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
    Lets find out what this morons real motivation was before we say stupid things like this, ok?

    Blue, the 'voting from the rooftops' thing is INSANE. Killing a civilian who posed no threat to you is MURDER. Period.

    So stop it, OK?

    Agreed.

    WE are ALL for free speeech in this country, that's part of what makes
    this country great. The choice of words is important & does have major
    influence on the already fragile state of mind of some individuals in our
    society. We could do without the "lock & load" mentality speech coming
    from some quarters of the political community.
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
    Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

  4. #2794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace View Post
    I never said anything of the sort, and you know it. I posted an article and then a quote. I provided the links. If you choose to attribute the thoughts in these articles to me, or anyone else on this board, you are way out of line.
    Given the current context of the thread.... If you intent was not to 'blame' Mrs. Palin ( or Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc...) for this violence, what was the reason for sharing it?

    Like you said, words matter, but the mindset of the reader matters too. A map with crosshairs on it can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Sane people will read it one way and a insane person.... Who knows how they will read it? Do we all need to be careful as to not 'say' things so as to not motivate a crazy person to be...crazy? HOW do we do that?

    What I am trying to get at it is lets not start making excuses for this guy already, or help the media turn this into a reason to force us apart.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  5. #2795
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizbud View Post
    Agreed.

    WE are ALL for free speeech in this country, that's part of what makes
    this country great. The choice of words is important & does have major
    influence on the already fragile state of mind of some individuals in our
    society. We could do without the "lock & load" mentality speech coming
    from some quarters of the political community.
    So, which is it? FREE speech or being careful to not 'have major
    influence on the already fragile state of mind of some individuals in our
    society'?

    I say this because "voting from the rooftops" is NOT a concept that is vague. Implying that a political figure's map was motivation for a murder.... Thats a little different.


    And.... I am ALL for keeping the debate to the issues at hand.
    "Unlike most of you, I am not a nut."

    - Homer Simpson


    "If the enemy opens the door, you must race in."

    - Sun Tzu - Art of War

  6. #2796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puckstop31 View Post
    Lets find out what this morons real motivation was before we say stupid things like this, ok?

    Blue, the 'voting from the rooftops' thing is INSANE. Killing a civilian who posed no threat to you is MURDER. Period.

    So stop it, OK?
    I would be beyond happy to be wrong.
    I have a HUGE SIG!!!!



    My Dogs. Erp the Cat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jefferson
    Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

  7. #2797
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    Now that was interesting - especially for a one-time Neuro ICU nurse who very recently had a craniotomy.

    There was just a press conference at University of Arizona. The main speakers were Dr. Peter Rhee, Medical Director of the Trauma Center, and Dr. Michael Lemole, Neurosurgeon.

    Of the patients they received yesterday, one has been discharged and only one is still in ICU; the rest have improved enough to be transferred to floor care.

    Congresswoman Giffords went to the OR just 38 minutes after hitting the ER door. The bullet ran the entire length of the left side of her head, from front to back. It did not cross hemispheres, nor did it cross the center of the brain. Both of the scenarios would have been much worse. She was following simple commands before and after the surgery. As the Neurosurgeon said, don't be deceived by the word simple. The brain has to process a lot to follow a command. That she can do this, makes them feel optimistic.

    They did not put back the bone flap - that allows for swelling to occur. At some point in the future the flap will be replaced. I can tell you that my flap was the size of my surgeon's hand - that gives you an idea of the area. Hers might be larger.

    She is in a medically-induced coma for the time being. Like being under anesthesia - they can wake her up to check neuro status.

    So far - so good.

  8. #2798
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    Not excusing the shooter, but it seems pretty obvious from his Youtube postings, only a few of which I have seen, that he is extremely mentally ill. His logic is illogical, and pulling a few sentences out that point in a single direction is misleading.

    Do not read any politics into this, anyone could have been the target, regardless of ideology.
    I've Been Frosted

  9. #2799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Not excusing the shooter, but it seems pretty obvious from his Youtube postings, only a few of which I have seen, that he is extremely mentally ill. His logic is illogical, and pulling a few sentences out that point in a single direction is misleading.

    Do not read any politics into this, anyone could have been the target, regardless of ideology.

    Very true. We do not yet know the shooter's intent. He was very much
    anti-government. His writings indicate that much, but we need a clearer
    picture of the man himself to draw any conclusions.

    This first person account of the incident is chilling. I don't think I would
    have had the presence of mind to react as quickly. Thank heavens they did.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/09/ari...ex.html?hpt=C1
    I've Been Boo'd

    I've been Frosted






    Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
    Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

  10. #2800
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    Christina Green
    Born September 11, 2001
    Died January 8, 2011


    Born into a world of terrorism
    and died by it's hand.

    Bless the children who will never
    know a world without hate, anger,
    evil and terror.
    Amen.

  11. #2801
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    Another medical update from The University of Arizona.

    As the Neurosurgeon said - no change is good; and there has been no change in her condition.

    Dr. Peter Rhee, Trauma Chief, is fantastic. I would love to have worked for someone like him.

    Two patients have been discharged; two in ICU; six now on floor care. Several will have more surgery later this week.

  12. #2802
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    Just a small observation about the AHs who are quick to twitter, blog or go on TV to blame everyone except themselves.


    I was channel surfing and saw Bill Maher talking about why a Glock pistol is sold and what it's used for.

    He stated that is not "for hunting, it's for hunting people..."

    This coming from an idiot who has an armed body guard with him when he goes out in public.

    You have to love morons........They seem to have an inflated sense of worth.

  13. #2803
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    Good news -

    Doctors at University Medical Center in Tucson said six patients remain at the hospital, two having been discharged since Monday. Besides Giffords, who remains in intensive care, three patients are in serious condition and two are in fair condition, said Peter Rhee, director of the hospital's emergency care unit.

    "Everything is currently going well with all of those patients, and they're progressing as expected," Rhee said.

    "I'm happy to say she's holding her own," neurosurgeon G. Michael Lemole Jr. said of Giffords. He said she continues to follow simple commands and is able to breathe on her own without a breathing tube, although doctors prefer to keep the tube in to protect her airway and prevent infection. Lemole also said that her sedation has been reduced.

    "I'm very encouraged by the fact she's done so well," Lemole said. Given the traumatic nature of her injury - a 9mm bullet through the left side of her brain - "she has no right to look this good, and she does."
    source - good article with info about other patients and victims.

  14. #2804
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    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/red-ey...-rush-judgment

    LOL, Jane Fonda.

    Who rattled her cage?

    And piers morgan?

    ANother holier than thou guy that lives here in the United States and every time something happens, he looks down his nose at us stupid colonials. Go back home. Leave us alone.

    We have made it thru 230 odd years of babysitting ourselves and all of sudden we can't figure out who and what we are?

    moron....

    So you let Camilia get poked with a stick and that is more civil than having a politico shot in the head?

    Child?

    Please.

    --------------


    Theknukleheads on BOTH SIDES are quick to paint the other side as a stupid, radical hate mongers w/disdain in their hearts and an agenda.

    The more I listen to the media, the more I question the need for instant info and getting a scoop for us morons sitting in front of the tube.

    Nasty business it is.


    And god help the people who want unblemished truth and info.


    I'll wait for the hour long special on 20/20 or TRU TV.

  15. #2805
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    She opened her eyes!!

    When Giffords opened her eyes the first time, her husband and the doctor in the room reacted with shock. Giffords' husband, Mark Kelly, asked Giffords if she could give a thumbs up. She didn't at first. But after a few minutes, she was able to reach toward him. "Her whole arm went up in the air," Wasserman Schultz said. "She started touching his wedding ring." By the time Giffords opened her eyes for a fifth time, she was able to keep them open for more than 30 seconds, Wasserman Schultz said. The group was in the room 10 to 15 minutes.
    link

    I read that she also reached up and scratched her nose. Now, that might not mean much to most of you, but to medical personnel this is fantastic coming from a patient with a GSW to the head. It is purposeful movement.

    I think the next really big test will be - can she talk.

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