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Thread: Environmental Awareness *Go Green!!!*

  1. #16
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    So true, IRescue. We humans don't understand the extent of our destruction until it wipes out a species like dolphins or until it nearly completely dries up Lake Chad. But underneath all of that is the everyday destruction of smaller insects and bugs (like caterpillars) that disrupt the food chain (like birds).

    Unfortunately, we're like that frog in a tube of lukewarm water. We don't feel the heat until it boils. It's just frustrating. We all need to do something. When you're not in a room, turn the lights off for goodness sake. Walk more. Bike more. We all just need to go green!

  2. #17
    No, but thank you for enlightening us on the subject!

    That is so, so, terrible. One of the four species of black rhino (found in South Africa, I *think*) was just recently declared extinct. I mourn for all these lost souls. I mourn for the environment. For the future generations.



    Recycle, grow your own vegetables and herbs, donate, share, etc. are just some of the things that come to mind.

    *sigh*

    The comic Mutts has a strip of tigers, zebras, elephants, baboons, hyenas, etc, fading away until they're gone from the last strip. It's so sad.

  3. #18
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    oh but tigers won't go extinct in captivity, no, there're almost overpopulated.

    Niño & Eliza



  4. #19
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    True, but they'll eventually go extinct in the wild. Reintroducing species is such a tricky process, mostly because their habitat is gone and there's nothing left to salvage. I'm changing the title of this thread. More people need to read this.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Suki Wingy
    oh but tigers won't go extinct in captivity, no, they're almost overpopulated.
    and you'd rather they die out completely? We would have no wild bison today if it weren't for private(pet/food animals) keepers who offered there's for reintroduction.

    A lot of very endangered animals are not even in zoos, as they aren't "interesting" enough for the public. The zoos have to keep what people want to see to generate ticket sales. With this in mind, many private owners have stepped up to the plate and created stud books. They are really the only hope for some species that don't breed well in zoos, or just aren't interesting.

    How many people have heard of a Geoffroy's cat? Not many, and that is because there are only 5!!! in AZA zoos across north america. Pretty pathetic for a CITES I species. So us private owners have stepped up to the plate and made stud books and try and preserve genetic diversity.

    If someone wants to one day own an exotic pet, but really wants to help the species, its something to think about. There are programs in place for several species. Here is some more information on the Geoffroy's cat species enhancement strategy for anyone interested in what kind of impact private owners can have:
    http://www.geoffroyscatses.org/index.html

    most of that after the first paragraph is taken from a friend who just got one of those cats and is participating. I have Pua similarly plan to get her a mate and go from there. Historically tamanduas have not done well in zoos. Some one I know got a pair from a zoo that had never bred they bred almost right away for her and had a baby. I will help preserve her species and educate about her, her enviornment and the plight of the rainforest. Animals do well as pets and when given a "value". No domestic species has ever gone extinct, breeds yes the whole species never. Some species like tigers and lions might one day only be around as pets if they remain legal to keep.

    it's nice to complain but what are you really doing to save the earth? How does recycling stop other countries from dumping in their rivers? How does driving less help starving families not kill for bush meat to eat or sell too feed their families? Yes it's better than nothing but it's really hardly anything and requires little to no effort no a days with curbside recycling of cans, cardboard and many plastics.

    Have you bothered to write letters to help save prarie dogs in your own country(usa residents). Do you donate money or at least click everyday to save the rainforest http://www.therainforestsite.com/cgi...jects/CTDSites Do you also recycle electronics too? Batteries? Buy used goods? How do people grow their own food living in apartments and slums ect?

    In reality most people live in less fortunate countries and are just struggling to survive. If you have even 2,000 dollars in money and possessions you are considered wealthy when compared to the world population! We have it good and as such have more leisure time to worry about the environment and we as a country pollute less and have more preserved lands though 80% or so of all US wild land is owned and preserved by ranchers and farmers, not those factory farmers though. That being said do you buy locally grown produce and meat?

    There's a ton more you can be doing fairly easily, try picking just one or two to start. Ever talk to people you see litter or not recycle, pick up after others when you do see trash laying there? Even just tell others to click on that link.

    I am also tired of this whole self loathing thing where everyone is supposed to hate their own species. I refuse to believe every single human is scum and that they all should parish. I do not even think the majority is scum. The majority I meet are nice people. None are perfect but are decent beings.

  6. #21
    The river dolphin went extinct in China.

    You can get upset with China. yell, scream, whatever, they don't care.

    This is a country that in the last 30 years has killed millions of its own people. The government just DOESN'T Care. They have been being warned about the Yangtze for at least two decades by the UN, the US, the EU, greenpeace, you name it. They aren't listening.

    Why are engines and transmissions for GM vehicles being built in China? Cheap labor and NO environmental regs. The same goes for almost every factory that has been opened in China.

    The west has actually been doing a decent job with environmental regs. China and Russia, however, have done nothing. India has done little. And the governments genuinely don't give a damn.

  7. #22
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    Russia just set aside one of the largest total areas of river for a conservation area because of the endangered fish species that use the tributaries. Russia is starting to do good.
    "There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion."

    Lord John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton

  8. #23
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    TamanduaGirl, driving less and not helping starving families in Africa is very distantly related. What I was addressing in my initial post was the immediate urge for global warming awareness and the seemingly human ignorance of this issue. While driving less may not directly help a starving family avoid killing a chimpanzee, it WILL help preserve our earth and, thus, the human race. Sure, there are many social and economical problems in the world that we need to address but that in itself calls for its own thread. What I am concerned and very angry about now is the fact that very little people are concerned about the EARTH as a whole. If we fail the Earth and if the Earth fails us, that would mean our ultimate demise.

    Recycling very well will and can help other countries stop dumping in their rivers. Until we serve as a model country, no other nation is going to give us the time of day. So how will they "listen" to us if we don't even practice what we preach? Our first objective should be to ratify the darned Kyoto Protocol! I fail to comprehend how we can be so haughty as to criticize other countries when we ourselves refuse to ratify the Kyoto Treaty. I can barely be supportive (for lack of better words) of the human race at the rate we're going. Complain or not, carbon dioxide is rising and so is the temperature. Our environment is failing. Ice is melting. Land is becoming dehydrated. I believe the current statistic for carbon dioxide is approximately 600 parts per million. That is scary.

    If global warming were so easy to fix, there would not be a critical debate about it. But it is terribly complicated because we made it so. There is not a single answer. However, the little things we do eventually will add up. So, no, driving less may not directly help a starving family in Africa or Asia. No, recycling may not directly help war-torn refugees in Darfur. No, turning off a light may not help refugees in Iraq. But does that give us a reason NOT to do these little things? We need to do these little things. Eventually, they will add up. A single voice of reason is a revolution in a crowd of dissent. We need to start this revolution for the environment. Otherwise, we're going to find ourselves in a watery grave. And when we reach that point, it won't matter who is starving, who is killing, who is dying. When that point is reached, we will all find ourselves with a similar fatal fate.

    Lady's Human, my brother and I had a talk about that and he agreed with you. He doesn't care anymore because the government doesn't. How reassuring

  9. #24
    My point was that those two or three little things are two or three little things almost everyone does and it's just daily life, at least in most US cities and suburbs. Who wants to pay extra for the light bill? Who wants to pay extra for trash when recycling gets taken away for free? Who wants to pay a bigger gas bill for driving when they don't need to? If that's all you are doing you aren't doing anything. I listed many things that can be done with little effort and you didn't mention any of that. Have you ever done any of them? Did you even bother to click on the link and save a few feet of rain forest? You're likely on line everyday so what harm is there to you to click daily?

    As for global warming well the ice caps are crumbling at the edges but they are getting thicker in depth so are really about the same mass as always. The oceans around the equator have actually gotten cooler. The air temp has gone up a bit but the earth has NEVER had a stable envornment. There have been many ice ages and hot dry times, it cycles and this we are living in now has been the longest in between there has been yet. Finlay all the other planets in our solar system have heated up to about the same amount in the same time frame so it could well be related and we certainly aren't responsible for them too.

    I wasn't going to bring that up though because it's a 100% we are harming the earth weather we have anything to do with any warming or not. Again the post wasn't saying not to recycle it was saying are you actually doing anything to help I mean realy doing something you wouldn't do every day anyway for other reasons?

  10. #25
    Lady's Human, my brother and I had a talk about that and he agreed with you. He doesn't care anymore because the government doesn't. How reassuring
    Where did I say that?

  11. #26
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    Lady's Human, he just agreed in that the government isn't doing anything. Sorry. Could see how it could have gotten misinterpreted.

    TamanduaGirl, see, I don't think global warming is a natural anomaly. I don't think there is any dispute over its credibility. Yes, there have been heat cycles in the past couple hundred years that we've recorded, but this current one is incredibly larger and incredibly longer than the ones before. And at the rate we're going, it's increasing with every moment. Where did you find information about polar caps thickening in depth? I'd like to see the link.

    Even if you don't believe that global warming is a serious issue. Let's consider the science. Carbon dioxide generally has a lower specific heat than nitrogen, the main component of the earth's atmosphere. Thus, co2 traps more heat. As enormous amounts of carbon dioxide are pulsated into the atmosphere, more heat and light rays are trapped in instead of bouncing back out. Polar ice caps melt. Glaciers melt. Sea level will eventually rise. More heat is continually trapped because of the lost "mirror"-effect of the ice caps. The temperature continues rising and moisture is continually pulled from land. None of this is speculation.

    And since you must ask me personally, here's a short list of what I do:
    - I'm a vegetarian for environmental reasons purely
    - All the lightbulbs in our house have been energy efficient for the past 5-6 years
    - I've made an effort to buy exclusively from the two local farmer's markets, which solves your buying local/buying organic issue at once
    - My dogs and I do not eat commercialized food. We rarely, if ever, have overprocessed/overpackaged junk in our house
    - I was a regular volunteer at the Oakland Zoo and donated $100 during that time
    - We replaced our old washing machine with an EnergyStar
    - I do recycle batteries as I know of the risks of heavy metal leakage
    - Despite the relative cold weather of my neighborhood, I managed to grow a myriad of veggies and fruits and a nice, big, white, flowery tree whose name I don't know.
    - I'm a SCA volunteer and donor
    - And, why, yes, I did click on your link! I don't know how credible that link is (the .com caused a little doubt), but I didn't have the time nor effort to check its legitimacy.

    I can't think of much else off the top of my head, but if you insist, I can certainly continue the list.

  12. #27
    "The government" is a vague term.

    I specifically referred to the Chinese, Russian and Indian governments.

    The US government is doing much in the realm of being "green", but what this country does to clean up is more than cancelled out by the three countries I mentioned in particular.

    A modern SUV pollutes less running on the highway at 75 MPH than a 1980 subcompact does sitting in place.

    You also have to consider what being green/eco friendly really means.

    One popular "feel good" way to lower pollutants you are producing is to get a hybrid. There's more pollution and energy use involved in the production of
    a hybrid auto than you could ever save by using the hybrid. Batteries, special electrical components, etc. produce more pollutants than a normal vehicle will over a lifetime.

    Electric cars? Again, sounds good, but where does the additional electricity come from? Also, back to the sticky issue of high density storage batteries.

  13. #28

    deus ex virion

    Don't give up - humans' increasing crowding and dependence on antibiotics may turn the tide yet, albeit at a cost that none of us can yet imagine.

  14. #29
    BTW, as to the science, much of what you posted as fact is in fact theory, at least the point that humans are causing it. The earth has undergone climate changes many, many times through its existence. There were no SUVs around to account for the end of the little ice age in approx 1800.

    The climate is cyclical, and I doubt our less than 150 years of collecting data even begins to account for a part of a cycle.

  15. #30
    That link has been around for years as well as the click to sponsure breast cancer research thing they host and I'd think it would be exposed by now if it were fake. I'm glad you're doing all that. Most don't and just claim to dive less and recycle and then complain about how things are.

    The earth has been around more than 100 years that we've studied it. scientists have evidence in sea floor core samples and in various glacial ice core samples of 17 ice ages "small" and "large" over the last 1.8 million years.
    and in between each "ice age" there are warm "interglacial periods". The shortest interglacial period was approximately 8,OOO years, and the longest interglacial lasted approximately 12,OOO years."


    "The geographic North Pole was last covered with water about 50 million years ago, during the early part of the present Cenozoic Era. Known as the ¦Age of Mammals² and the ¦Recent Life Era,² this modern age ¤ which saw the dawn of human beings ³ began 65 million years ago."

    And so the earth cycles through times of cold and hot to the point that the poles have melted to the point of just water before. Even if we are speeding it up it is something that is going to happen anyway. It warms and melts to a point where the ocean curents shift and then cooling happens and there's the new iceage to deal with.


    Of course they try to blame thicker ice cap on global warming still but it does say basicaly what I said that it is getting thicker. The smaller glaciers are melting away but they would anyway as it was pointed out we are coming out of one of those icages still in one of those inbetween stages.

    The arctic pole is thinning some but still gets fresh deposits of several feet in thickness every year. the antarctic pole is thickening at a rate that at least for now cancels it out.

    a lot is still so uncertain with the idea of global warming and it was not that long ago scientists were predicting a new ice age which could still come about due in part to global warming. and looking at the past schedual of how long these in between stages seemed to last we are about due for a big swing. I look at it as seasons of the globe, natural cycles. Even if we are contributing to it happening a bit more quickly it would be foolish to think if humans were eradicated today it wouldn't still happen. History repeats it's self and so will the cold and hot spells of the earth. It was once warm and tropical enough all over Tamanduas lived in the UK.

    And there's still no acounting for the fact the other planets in our solar system are undergoing the same amount of warming we are and they can't say why.

    none of that is to say we shouldn;'t be worried about what we do to the envornment but that global warming isn't the thing to focus on. Loss of habitat is. If you loose all the wild lands and polute the oceans then you end the earth or at least destroy ourselves and leave cockroaches to rule the world.

    Antarctica ice cap thickens, slowing rise of sea levels
    Scientists say it's an effect of global warming
    http://www.worldclimatereport.com/in...-job/#more-113
    The arctic caps is however a bit thinner based on a satelite sruvey
    BY ROBERT LEE HOTZ

    Los Angeles Times

    As glaciers from Greenland to Kilimanjaro recede at record rates, the central ice cap of Antarctica has steadily grown for the past 11 years, partially offsetting rising seas due to global warming, researchers said Thursday.

    The vast East Antarctic Ice Sheet — a 2-mile-thick wasteland of ice larger than Australia, drier than the Sahara and as cold as a Martian spring — increased in mass every year between 1992 and 2003 due to additional snowfall, an analysis of satellite radar measurements showed.

    "It is an effect that has been predicted as a likely result of climate change," said David Vaughan, an independent expert on the ice sheets at the British Antarctic Survey in Cambridge, England.

    In a region known for the lowest temperatures on Earth, it normally is too cold to snow across the 2.7 million square miles of the ice sheet. Additional snowfall in east Antarctica is almost certainly due to warmer temperatures, four experts on Antarctica said.

    "As the atmosphere warms, it should hold more moisture," said climatologist Joseph McConnell at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, Nev., who helped conduct the study. "In East Antarctica, that means there should be more snowfall."

    The additional snowfall is enough to account for an extra 45 billion tons of water added to the ice sheet every year, about equal to the annual amount of water flowing into the ocean from the melting Greenland ice cap, researchers said Thursday in the online journal Science.

    Rising sea levels, which could swamp coastal and island communities, are a serious potential consequence of global warming, according to the most recent assessment by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

    Sea level is believed to be rising worldwide by 1.8 millimeters a year due to the expansion of warming water and the added outwash from melting glaciers in Greenland, Alaska, tropical highlands and elsewhere in Antarctica.

    Every millimeter of increased sea level corresponds to about 350 billion tons of water a year.

    The growth in the East Antarctic ice cap is enough to slow sea-level rise by a fraction of that — 0.12 millimeters a year — the researchers reported.

    The fresh water locked up in the ice of East Antarctica is enough to raise the level of the oceans by about 196 feet, experts said. If it continues to grow as expected, the ice sheet could help buffer some of the effects of anticipated sea-level rise for much of the coming century, the researchers said.

    "It is the only large body of ice absorbing sea level rise, not contributing to it," said mapping expert Curt Davis at the University of Missouri, Columbia, who led the research team.

    The researchers based their conclusions on an analysis of 347 million radar altimeter measurements made by European Space Agency satellites from June 1992 to May 2003.

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