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My husband and I are planning to breed English Bulldogs in the near future. We are in the planning stage right now. Does anyone have any suggestions? We can't afford to get both male and female at the same time... should we get the male or female first. I have heard this sometimes makes a difference. Any pointers? :confused:
Thanks!!!
Welcome to Pet Talk!
You'll find that a lot of us here are pro-rescue and adoption, not that we all are against breeding, but we all feel the need to save the animals that have been dumped.
My first question to you is why?
What made you first want to get into breeding?
Is it to make money or is it to better the breed and the bloodline?
From what I've heard, Bulldogs can not reproduce or give birth naturally, you will want to look into every aspect of breeding and keep the dogs health and well being as your first priority.
Well honestly, if you can't afford to purchase a bitch and a stud dog at the same time you oughtn't be breeding at this point in time. Most often the male and females you buy together aren't a good breeding combo anyway and you need to look elsewhere for an appropriate bitch or stud, but if you can't afford to buy them both you probably can't afford the litter and aftercare. Bulldogs have to have C-sections. They cannot be born without it and that can run a thousand dollars plus. If you think you will make the money back on the pups think again. You need to have your breeding stock assesed for conformatoin and have health testing done on each dog to make sure they don't have genetic diseases present to pass on. After that you have the the care of the bitch and the cost of the C-section, not to mention after they are born the care and feeding. If your bitch gets sick(mastitis) and can't nurse you have to bottle feed, or she could also die during surgery and then you have to hand raise the babies on bottles every 2 hours day and night to start with. Also there are times when a female who gives birth by C-section won't accept the babies and you are stuck having to bottle feed then too, not ot mention stimulating them to use the bathroom when they are very young. You also have to be prepared to the whole litter possibly dying along with the bitch and then you'd be out thousands of dollars and no babies. Just think long and hard about it and find a well known respected breeder in your area to help you and mentor you and help you find good breeding stock for healthy babies. It's very costly and if you can't even afford to purchase both together you should probably wait until you can. It's not something to takelightly and if you don't do it the right way there is no point in doing it.
Well said once again Vella! :)
Hi Rivera,
Welcome to Pet Talk.
I would suggest you read this:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...light=breeding
I, like you, had the same intentions with my dog but after thinking it out, and after hearing many different points of view, I opted not to.
I hope you will change your mind as well.
carmen
Please don't
dittoQuote:
Originally Posted by Brody's Mum
Ditto to everything that you guys already said. I preffer to leave breeding to people who really know what they do, and do it for their love to the breed and to improve it... And if you can't afford a male and female at the same time, are you sure that you will be able to afford the food, medical attention and other things the dogs will need??
Please think carefully about about it ;)
Welcome to Pet talk
:( I won't say anything....................
Welcome to Pet Talk.
If you can't afford both dogs at the same time, I don't encourage you to breed. It will cost a heck of a lot more to raise a litter properly than to buy two English Bulldogs. :(
I agree 100%!Most people just rush out and buy the dogs with no clue what they are doing. Good on you for researching first Rivera.
I hope this thread doesn´t turn ugly, as I have seen so many similar threads turn into arguments.
I agree please don't..please spay and neuter your dogs..if you want another dog why not adopt? http://www.petfinder.com
I have to agree with the above, but I'll add this:
You sound like you want to do this the right way, which I applaud you for, so here's a few tips for breeding:
Don't do it.
Simple enough, eh? ;) However, if you're REALLY intent on improving the English Bulldog breed and you don't want to do it just to make more puppies, my suggestion for you to be is to stop and think about it. Before you make the jump and buy your foundation b*tch (you most likely will not go far with a male dog as studs are pick of the litter-type pups and reputable breeders RARELY sell their top studs to novices), you should study the breed itself. Know who the top dogs *were*. Know who the top dogs *are*. Know how the breed evolved and fluctuated over the span of a few centuries. Know the "legends" of the breed. Be able to recognize and analyze a good pedigree. Get in touch with the "legends" of the breed. Go to numerous dog shows, be it conformation or performance events. Get yourself involved in the sport. Know how to properly groom and feed your specific breed. Know how to handle them in the ring, be it conformation or performance. Know all the medical problems your breed is susceptible to (Bulldogs have many). Know how to prevent them. Know genetics!!! You will most likely encounter in/linebreeding when dealing with conformation-heavy dogs, so if you want to continue that tradition, you'll need to have a firm grasp of genetics. In/Linebreeding can be done successfully as long as you know how to do it.
Now that we've got the bare basics done, find a breeder you really admire and ask him or her to be your mentor. More than likely, they will jump for joy and begin to show you the ropes of the dog breeding world. There is SO much more to it than Fido and Fifi, and, honestly, the best advice comes from one with experience within the breed. Once you get in touch with a mentor, he or she will readily provide you with a top quality dog. A good breeding program lies in its foundation, and the foundation of a good program lies in good breeding stock. To find good breeding stock, you'll need connections within the breed and you'll need to know the past and present "legends" of the breed. Beyond that, you'll need to take all the necessary precautions before even considering a stud for your foundation b*tch.
Bulldogs, in particular, are susceptible to many hip, knee, eye problems and even bloat!
To prevent these health maladies, you'll need to get your dog tested via:Quote:
Possible Health Problems
Bulldogs have numerous known genetic defects and are subject to various illnesses that affect many breeds. Common Bulldog health problems you may encounter include: elongated soft palate, small trachea, allergies, dermatitis, demodetic mange, eye lid anomalies, hip dysplasia and heart problems. Some of them have a tendency toward self-mutilation (especially if they have itchy skin), so owners should watch carefully for signs of skin irritation and scratching. If you are adopting an older dog, many of these conditions will already have been identified.
Twenty-four hour care by a qualified veterinarian must be available. Since not all veterinarians are knowledgeable about the health problems Bulldogs may have, you should consult experienced Bulldog owners or the rescue to find a capable veterinarian. Any veterinarian who will be doing surgery on your Bulldog should have previous experience with putting Bulldogs under anesthesia.
CERF (http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html)
Optigen (http://www.optigen.com/)
OFA (http://www.offa.org/)
PennHip (http://www.pennhip.org/)
...and the normal blood/thyroid tests. These tests aren't cheap. Attending and preparing for conformation shows easily run upwards of 1000$ per show, including hotel and gas costs. If, despite all this, you still want to breed, I have to give you a clap on the back and will offer myself to help find you a mentor.
Actually, I know one English Bulldog breeder quite closely and I can PM her website to you. Good Luck!
Don't breed unless it's good for the breed! :(
Welcome to PT! I'm glad you came here for advice, it's a brave thing to do to seek out input from others.
My sister has bought 2 English Bulldogs - they are GREAT dogs! Her first is from a very reputable local breeder, he was $1500 and the only pup in his litter. His sire is an International Show Champion, and his mom is a Champion. Of course, to properly breed any dog they need to be exhibited in whatever sport is suitable for their breed - for English Bulldogs, they should be proven as an excellent show specimen before breeding, FOR SURE! Showing dogs costs $1000's. And, even more importantly, both parents must be checked for luxating patellas (knees), hip dysplasia, breathing problems, bronchael problems, eyes, ears - which will cost around $300-500 for both parents. THEN, English Bulldogs can rarely breed naturally so you'll need your bitch artificially inseminated. Well over $100. Bulldogs cannot give birth naturally, either... C-section will cost over $1000 and will put your bitch's life in danger, it could cost much much more if any complications result. THEN, all of the puppies need bi-weekly dewormings from week 2 to week 8, along with sets of shots, check-ups, fecal exams, blood panels, etc, etc. Think $250 per pup. On top of that, your female will need lots of high quality food and supplements, and so will her puppies! She'll also need an ultrasound and check-ups through out her pregnancy, which are not cheap.
So, all of that said, the wonderful breeder they bought their boy from was in the hole $1000+ after breeding properly, because only one pup was produced, which is not uncommon... there was also severe complications with her C-section. After bitches have C-sections, many cannot nurse, so you will be up every other hour nursing newborn puppies.
Take all of the expense, the countless hours of effort and time and dedication, the countless hours of research... and if it seems worth it now, go ahead and find a great mentor in an English Bulldog breeder that actively shows their dogs. Breeding is not a little thing - it's a HUGE thing. You're bringing lives into this world, a world that's already overflowing with homeless pets. Please do not breed unless you intend on doing it ethically... that means, striving to IMPROVE the English Bulldog breed, not just making a few bucks off of half-azzing it. There are already soooo many unhealthy English Bulldogs out there already. Plan on showing and titling your breeding dogs, health testing your breeding dogs, doing all you can for the growing puppies, selling them on spay/neuter and return contracts, and all of that!
I also wanted to add - there are so many horrendous English Bulldog breeders out there, I couldn't imagine counting them all. English Bulldogs are the #1 most sold breed on puppyfind.com and other puppy mill/backyard breeder websites. The breed is just, being, ruined! My sister bought a sweet little 12 week-old fawn English Bulldog pup from what was claimed to be "good" breeders - they promised her husband that their puppies and parents had all been healthy and shown. Well, a few weeks later, when they took her to finish up her shots, they asked about some heavy breathing issues... she had 2 huge holes in her heart. Holes that HAD to have been detected by any Vet. So, basically, her breeder walked away with $2000 and never returned their calls, knowing very well that the puppy would die in a few weeks. When Lily started coughing up blood, they put her sleep :(. Just ONE example of all of the unethical English Bulldog breeders out there, please don't add to the problem. Breed only if you're doing this to better this wonderful breed.
I logged on last night and was astonished at some of the responses I received with a very, very honest query for additional assistance with getting started with raising and breeding E. Bulls. I am a enthusiastic pet owner and lover and I came to this website to hear ideas and suggestions from fellow pet lovers, of whom I thought would be caring, supportive, and helpful. However I was so mad and hurt last night from comments made by Vela and "Her Followers" I decided to not respond last night and stoop down to their levels. Do you think I just decided..."Hey, I want to make a buck... lets get 2 bulldogs together and see what I get." I have owned an English before. The best dog I ever had. I have always been in love with English's. If you have ever owned one or had the priviledge to be in one's company you understand what I am saying. The established breeder that I obtained him from had done an awesome job in breeding and potentiating great qualities in this breed. I had NO health problems with T-Bone (except for a little redness he had in a wrinkle he had right above his nose). That is it. What a great specimen he was. T-Bone's mom was able to deliver naturally which is not typical. I have done tremendous research on this breed via internet and books. I thought I would seek out information at this site. Boy, was that a bad idea.
Vella, and your followers ,that can only muster up a few words like..."well said Vella" stated by Iv4dogs, back off. I am going to raise the parents from puppies to make sure they have what I think needs to be continued in their breed. And any IDIOT knows that you should obtain male and female form seperate places. And , no , I can't afford both of the pups at the same time because of the quality of the breed that I am obtaining... over 3 grand for a E.B. pup is what I expect to pay because I want the best. A few months later I will venture out for the next addition. I don't have to jump in with every dime I have. I want to be sure of every step I take. I don't want to make any mistakes. And it is not your job/role to assist me in how to manage my finances for vet visits, emergencies, dog supplies. I am very well aware of what I will need. THANK YOU!
I will stop now because I can tell I am getting angry and going to say unnecessary things. :mad:
I do want to thank Giselle for your information and understanding. As well as bcKrazy. If there is anyone else that was genuinely concerned and helpful ,thank you.
If their is anyone else that has a rude or undermining comment please keep it to your self.
If their is anyone else that cares and is concerned and can be helpful please respond.
Thank you so much.
Rivera7, Please don't find this a negative post, I don't mean it to be. I simply want you to understand where we are coming from. I'd like you to go back a read your first post. You gave us NO information except that you want to breed english bulldogs and you can't afford both dogs at the same time. You have to understand that this was your first ever post on this board and we know nothing at all about you. Had you explained yourself like you did in your second post you would have gotten some better responses.
There are a lot of people here who are against breeding and 100% for rescuing only. Others here support both rescuing and reputable breeders. I fall into that second category, I am very much involved with rescuing however I'm not at all against reputable breeders. You will not find anyone here who will support or even tolerate a backyard breeder, I'm sure you can understand that. This board is full of very passionate people.
The fact is that the world is full of "idiots". When it comes to breeding there are way way more backyard breeders than reputable ones. Because you gave us no information about your plans and knowledge on breeding we had to assume you had none. Understand that and you will understand why you got the responses that you got.Quote:
any IDIOT knows that you should obtain male and female form seperate places.
I agree with giselle that shadowing a reputable breeder would be the best place to start. It takes time to earn the respect of other reputable breeders. Get in the show ring with another breeders dog. You need to know how to swim before jumping into the pool, otherwise you'll probably drown.
I wish you the best of luck. I hope you can now see where we are coming from and I hope you'll give Pet Talk another chance.
I'm sorry that your introduction to this forum was so negative. I happen to LOVE English Bulldogs and hope to have one, myself, one day. It seems to me that you have thought out all of the issues with this breed. I have learned some things from reading this about the C-Sections. I knew they usually have small litters and there is a huge problem with actually delivering the babies, but I didn't know that C-Sections were the norm these days. I have only experienced one precious fellow, Ben, in my life, and he was the dog I grew up with. I loved him so much and have always wanted another one. My husband, it turns out, loves them too. We will have one, one day.
Best of luck to you on finding the right pair. Even if you never have puppies, I know you will experience much joy owning these precious dogs.
Logan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivera7
Pretty sure you already did, but whatever. You assume an awful lot and you were the only person who said rude and unnecessary things in this thread and intentionally tried to do so. Nobody else directed anything rude to you in any manner so how about taking your own advice and keeping your negative comments to yourself. Good luck with the dogs.
She must be talking about me. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Rivera7
Don't get annoyed by the responses - you asked for advice from the experts and you got it! You couldn't have come to a better place if your main concern was for the welfare of your dogs
First of all I am no ones follower and I was only able to muster up a few words like..."well said Vella" because I agreed with her. She said everything I would of said and I had nothing more to add.
I am honestly very sorry that your first experience here was a bad one but like others have said we didn't know anything about you. If you were to re-read your first post & pretend that it is written by someone else you may understand where were coming from. It sounded like you knew nothing about the breed, only that you were interested in breeding BD's. It kind of came across that you were a BYB in the making or the like. Sorry but thats the impression I got, by the sounds of it a lot of others did too.
And by the way no one here said anything rude to you but I do have to admit that some rude comments were made by you.
I don't think anybody has been rude to you, but I do think your last post was a bit rude... We were just trying to give some good advice... I'm sorry if you missed that point...
Hi and welcome to Pet Talk. I am no expert so I usually don't get involved with these types of threads. However, after reading the thread all the way through from the beginning, I was beaming with pride for my fellow Pet Talkers. Proud that they all gave you their expert opinions completely without malice or judgement. Sometimes these threads have gotten ugly but this one never did until you replied back to everybody. I don't understand it. What was it that upset you so badly? No one intended negativity in any way towards you so please don't take it that way. You asked for advice and you got it. What more did you want? :confused:
You came for advice and opinions, and that's what you got. Please don't take offense to it, just because its not what you want to hear. Did you completely skip over the posts that some members DID make that gave you tips (one that stood out to me was the one made by bckrazy)? As a whole, I think this thread is very informative and not at all negative in any aspect. Please don't take it the wrong way, and definitely don't take offense to it. At least you're asking for help and adive where others would never do it and just think "hey this breed is cute, lets stick two together and see what happens. I'm sure they'll have cute puppies!".
Wait, what? You asked for advice, and you got it. Nobody is telling you what to do, saying you're dumb or stupid, nobody! I REALLY think you got the entirely WRONG idea from this post. You want us to be open-minded with you, you must be open-minded with all of us as well. As lv4dogs stated, we don't know you or your situation as you did not tell us, how were we to assume?? We certainly can't read your mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivera7
Am I blind to rude comments or something? Because I see none! NONE at all! As said by Vela, you are the only one saying rude unessacary things. You asked for our suggestions and we gave them. If you wanted them so bad, you got them.
And no Maltese Love isn't my "follower" either =) LOL what an odd thing to say. But rather than retype things here, when we agree with someone's post we just agree with them, doesn't many ANYONE a follower, just makes us like minded on that point. Everyone here has their own minds and opinons and sometimes we just happen to agree. Not sure why that's hard to understand. Had you explained yourself more in the first post you wouldn't have received those replies, but we aren't mind readers and you came across like you didn't know anything about breeding, not sure why that offends you but to each their own.
To be perfectly honest it really did sound like, just in your first short post, you hadn't researched much. I hate to assume, but that's the vibe I got. Please don't feel offended - everyone here is VERY passionate about pets and breeding ethically. And, we've had some one here recently asking about breeding English Bulldogs to make money... as if EB's aren't one of the most difficult and expensive breeds to whelp ;0)!
I'm VERY relieved that you've done all of the research and found great breeders to learn from! Thats awesome! I really do hope you share your experience on PT, it's a great place to come to for advice and sharing pictures!!
Welcome to Pet Talk..
Giselle and bckrazy pretty much posted what you need to do
if you are seriously thinking about breeding and breeding the right way.
1: I would suggest going to the AKC web site and looking up the "official
breed club". Than start corresponding with that breed club.
You also can join and start attending a local breed club in your area before
you even own the breed.
2:Usually their are one or two "good" breed pacific e-mail forums where
many rescue, show breeders and pet people have joined.
This is also a good way to introduce yourself to others and sit back
and learn.
3: start attending local dog shows and when the handler/owner is not busy
they usually do not mind answering questions about their dogs etc.
4: Take your time and do your research. Learn who the reputable
breeders are. It is helpful if you try to learn about genetics and
make sure the breeder you choose has knowledge and honest
about the genetics their dogs lines regarding health issues/faults etc.
(if it sounds to good to be true usually it is)
5: Make sure the breeder you choose is a good mentor who will help
you for the life of the dog with all questions. A good mentor
will help you with showing, health screening and any other questions you might have pertaining to your dogs. A good mentor is very valuable and will usually make a life time friend.
6: Gets your dogs titled and during this time do the required health tests you need to do on your breeding pair. IF your dogs do
not pass the required healthy tests, than do not breed your dogs titled
or not.
Good luck
Thank you Vela. I have now changed my mind a little. If you honestly have reasearched and you think you can afford the dogs then breed. But if you know nothing about breeding, English Bulldogs,ect. that would be a bad idea. Good Luck! But a word of advice: If you want opinions/suggestions then please do not be offended by people's posts.
I agree with you Rivera7! What's with all the ANTI BREEDERS!! Nice advice... just don't breed? What a bunch of purebred ***** ... check out these MYTHS ABOUT BREEDING:
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/breeding-myths.html
First of all, this thread is old. Second, anybody that has no knowledge of breeding should not be breeding. Few people here are against reputable breeders that have the knowledge. And that site you posted seems to have no authority in the breed.
This thread is indeed old, did you join just to complain? Shows your intelligence right there, which makes anything else you post after that seem almost irrelevant. Nobody on here is a purebreed Nazi, we just don't beleive in people who have a lack of basic breeding knowledge going ahead and breeding dogs they know next to nothing about as far as health and characteristics, and adding to the pet population problem. Your link is basically pointless in regards to the many dogs out there put to death every single day because people continue to breed dogs when they have no business doing so. If all you have to say is negative, please don't bother to post here, if you would like to be constructive and try to give information, please refrain from being so antagonistic right off the bat, because that won't win you any friends here. Have a nice day.
I would not knock her down at the jump of a hat.There are many upon many amazing breeders around here.That produce amazing dogs,But Bulldogs are there litters not all c-sections?That would be scary for me,and you could loose the mother and pups if something was to go wrong,And these dogs are not cheap as some have said i seen an add in the local paper it said Bulldog not registerd 2200.00,and there is a chance you might not find a pair that are old enough to breed.Also if you cannot afford to buy two how are you going to pay for there check-ups?The puppies need to be taken in for there shots and all the rest before homing them.It is very expensive and also it's not just the dogs you have to purchase,you also need supplies,some put up kennels,some have barns and just make mangers there is many different things i have seen Breeders have to bring there puppies into you dont want puppies running around your house WHAT A MESS!!!Seriously thinking needs to take effect...I'd hate to see someone go into this not breeding before and not like it,they do need your time it is not like Mom will do it all,i have had two hand raise a few of mine.And the worrying OMG it is overwhelming some people cannot handle it or......Don't have the patients and then there is more dogs out on the street looking for homes.
Now all my guys have come from Breeders and im not ashamed but once my guys Travel on there way i will be rescuing there is so many dogs that loose there life because of people wanting a dog and whether the puppy grows off and they dont want them or there dogs are beaten which ever the case is i myself will never go to a breeder again!To many others that need us.I hope you do the research and all that follows before making a big desision as this...
Lori, the OP is not the person who rebrought this thread up, it was the person who posted a few posts ago (bethanypiglet) and was just mad about people not agreeing with breeding, not necessarily about breeding bulldogs. This thread is like 5 months old and the new poster, on their first post, just drug it up again to complain and cause an argument. Wasn't sure if you had seen the date on the original postings. I don't know if the new poster is trying to breed bulldogs as well or just wanted to start an argument, seems almost like trolling.
No Vela i didn't.I just noticed it today when i signed in,But i just seen the Bulldog Breeding and just thought with someone who could not afford to buy the digs at the same time is crazy to do so these dogs take alot,Birth wise i could not chance loosing a dog,That's i tryed to get across.
Oh I agree with you about someone breeding who can't afford both dogs at the same time heh, seems silly to me as well since they do need C-sections, and that costs a couple thousand just that alone.
I agree this thread is OLD! there is no need to bring it back up. ;)