I need breeder help...

My Dad is wanting to get a GSD. He had one when I was little and now that my brother and I are out of the house and it's just him and my Mom, he is wanting to get another dog. I have talked to him about rescue and they are interested and we have a GSD rescue group local to where we live. My question is this....I am also looking at breeders for them. My parents would be interested as well in buying from a breeder BUT as well all know on here I need to find a reputable, responsible breeder. I have found some online but I am not all too familar with understanding all the certifications. I need some help in finding a good breeder. I know you guys are the best possible help I can find. The area would need to be in Florida. Post on here or PM any websites you can find in FL. Thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

Amber

If your parents are OK with getting one from a rescue, why pursue looking into breeders??

They want to explore everything.

Here is one website I found.

Well my recommendation would be, regardless of any breeders you find, give them a call and ask to visit their house/kennel to see where the pups live and the conditions they live in and how they're treated. Also DO NOT be afraid to ask ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL. A good, reputable breeder will be more than happy to answer ANY question you can think of and will answer with no problem and never be offended ;)

I'm not experienced with the titles that are usually in GSDs pedigrees, so I'm not sure about that. You do want to look for inbreeding or linebreeding. If it exists in the pedigrees, ask them why the dogs were bred that way. If they don't have a good, solid answer then be wary. Even if they themselves didn't breed the dogs they should know everything about their dogs' pedigrees. I'd type more but I really shouldn't even be on PT now ...

I disagree. Some people have qualms with linebreeding, but my breeder linebreeds three generations back. As long as the breeder has a firm grasp of genetics and has extensive knowledge of the lineage and the dogs are of exceptional quality (and completely free of genetic maladies), then there should be no problem with line/inbreeding. I guarantee you that all the top show dogs are in some way shape or form quite inbred ;) I'll PM you with the rest of the info.
Edited to add: I'm not so sure I like the breeder you just posted. There aren't any significant red flags, per se, but she does tend to focus on why you should buy their puppies and it disappoints me to see that she has just one non-import sire who isnt championed....Whatever. Some breeders focus more on Sch. rather than conformation. :)

I found one that I personally liked.
Hunt German Shepherds

Giselle - what I was saying is IF they are/aren't line or inbred that the breeder should say WHY. Basically, the breeder needs to know the dogs pedigree through and through. Maybe I didn't say it clearly, sorry :o

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Originally Posted by areias

I found one that I personally liked.
Hunt German Shepherds

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looks like a nice breeder but those are Shutzund dogs(personal protection) those dogs have ALOT of drive, i dont think they'd make a good pet for her parents. These type of dogs NEED to be WORKED.


just a few things you want to look for in a breeder.
health tests- OFA hips, patellas and elbows. Cerf and thyroid. and if there are any other genetic health problems in the GSD, make sure they test for those too.
Titles- conformation and or working.
Temperment testing- it's a big plus, *i* personally probably wouldnt buy from a breeder who didnt temperment test.
does the breeder have homes lined up BEFORE a breeding takes place or does he/she just sell the puppies whenever they are olde enough? (a responsible breeder has at leaste 8-10 homes lined up BEFORE the sire and dam even mate, each of these homes should have been throughly screened)

those are the major points that need to be looked for.

and the obvious things are like.
how are the dogs kept? in the house or in kennels? if in kennels are they clea kennels with good insulated dog houses.
are the dogs fed a quality food or are they fed a cheap store bought brand?
are the dogs part of the family or just dogs that that work and make puppies for the breeder?(you'd be suprised at the amount of breeders who show their dogs but that is ALL they do with them, when the dogs arent being shown they are locked in their kennels)
are the puppies whelped and raised in a clean environment(in the house) and are they well socialized til the day they leave?
what age do the puppies go to their new families? a responsible breeder wont even think about selling a puppy before 8 weeks most prefer closer to 10 weeks.
does the breeder take back dogs whos familys can no longer care for them? or do they give you a puppy and wish you best of luck but dont keep in contact with you to see how the dog grows and lives? a responsible breeder keeps in contact with ALL families that buy a puppy from them until the day the dog dies

if you're parents buy from a RESPONSIBLE breeder they will most likely have to be on a waiting list first unless they get really lucky, seriously alot of people wait a year or two before getting to buy from a responsible breeder.

also any responsible breeder wont have more than 2 litters MAX a year, MOST only have 1 breeding every one or two years.

and remember that REPUTABLE doesnt always mean RESPONSIBLE.

a breeder can get lots of praise and recomendation from alot of people and be "reputable" but that doesnt mean their breeding ethics are responsible.

Amber, Dog Fancy Magazine, lists lots of GSD breeders with websites and photos and info.

I, also, have researched GSD breeders extensivley. If you don't go the rescue route, you may want to check these folks out. The prices are very high, but the GSD's are the prettiest and the highest quality temperments I've seen. I have met one dog out of this breeder many years ago and I've been hooked on them ever since. This is where my dream GSD comes from, and I've researched GSD breeders so, so much. The add can also be found in the Dog Fancy gallary of breeds.

Vom Waldenhaus GSD's

Woah, 3000 bucks for a GSD puppy! And I thought my pup was expensive! :eek: Those dogs do look beautiful but that is quite expensive.

I havent got anything helpful to add.. other then to tell your parents to be paitent. as finding the right dog could take some time.

and i just wanted to wish them and you the best of luck in your search. :D

ICK ICK ICK. I do not like the looks of that breeder AT ALL. For one, they show an immense amount of hostility towards the accepted methods of proving a dog: Conformation, Sch., and herding titles. They claim that these tests are inaccurate and are basically shooting them down, saying the only way to prove a dog is through its progeny. <--- This is a fancy way of saying, NOPE! We only breed our dogs to make moolahh $$$. We don't *need* to show.

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At their best they are, in our opinion, simply inaccurate and coarse indicators of possible correct genetics. The real proof is in the actual breeding.The resulting progeny are the only clear accurate measure of the parents abilities to produce excellent quality pups, not some artificial obstacle course that the parents have been repeatedly trained to excel at. I have seen many times, Schutzhund 3 FH bred to Schutzhund 3 FH and the resulting litter had not even one pup that was note worthy. If a dog has titles or not, does not matter to me. It's whether or not that dog produces progeny with exceptional qualities consistently that really matters. "The proof is always in the pudding" so to speak...

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Excuses excuses excuses!!!

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Each litter produces some king-size pups and maximum for the standard size pups, never anything less in size or stature

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I personally have an issue with breeding over and under the standard sizes because doing so can double and triple the dog's susceptibility to common and rare illnesses. My Gawd, these people sell oversized, pet-quality GSDs (with sires and dams which are neither proven in the ring nor field) for 3,000$!!!! That is ridiculous. This is a breeder in it for the money. That's why their whole page is dedicated to selling gimmicks and "Letters of References"....Ick Ick Ick!

I know you are looking for breeders in the Flordia area, but i know a breeder that breeds OUTSTANDING dogs. I should know i have one ;) . www.jerland.com The dogs are a bit spendy ranging from $500-7,000 but they are well worth the price. If you have any questions about the place then just leave me a private message. I hope your parents find the perfect shepherd!

I volunteered for GSD Rescue of NorCal at a few events, and I learned SOOO much about the breed in that short amount of time. Most of the dogs (90+%) who were turned into rescue had very unstable temperaments, super high energy and nerves, and almost all of them were in horrendous condition. Consistently, these dogs were of "American" type, with ridiculously curved backs and sloped haunches (total hock-walkers). These dogs were mostly from BYB's, but some were from very popular AKC breeders with Ch show dogs!

I think the BIGGEST red flag you need to look for is anyone who exclusively shows their GSD's in AKC conformation. German Shepherds are NOT Toy Poodles who should be bred to prance around a ring. They are working dogs, above all, and they DO need a job in their life... whether that's a constant companion, a herding dog, a Schutzhund dog, a police k-9, etc. Any breeder you look at should have at least SchH1 titles on all of their breeding dogs and routinely herd with them also. The most important requirement is all of the testing... OFA, Patellas, BAER, etc. GSD's are a very popular, large breed and therefore many of the lines have been ruined by dysplasia and other genetic diseases. You need to get at least a 2-year health guarentee, a spay/neuter contract for pets, and a breeder that is happy to give tons of advice and take back their pup at any time ~ if all of that isn't offered, the breeder is NOT worth your time or money! This is my favorite breeder EVER, of any breed ;) ~ http://www.truehaus.com/index.htm ughhh I love them. I met Cindy and I got to meet 2 of her amazing dogs! I was actually going to get a puppy from them but instead I ended up with Gonzo by chance. Check out their comments page with pics and messages from owners of their puppies... and notice how gorgeous their dogs are! ^.^ they all have nice, sound, beautiful structure and solid compact size. They are NOT sitting on their haunches while standing, and their butt is not 3 inches from the ground because of an awkwardly sloped spine... as you might see in AKC GSD's. They are all working dogs and extensively temperament tested to have the most solid personalities and wonderful obedience you could ever ask for in any dog.

AllAmericanPup... to the contrary, a GSD from working, titled Schutzhund parents has the most reliable temperament you could find anywhere. Schutzhund dogs CANT fly off the handle or go attack whoever, they are a lot less prone to even think of biting anyone than the average neighborhood dog. Schutzhund is basically the highest level of Obedience work - where a dog will literally put his life on the line to complete a task given by his handler. An aggressive dog would never make it in any Schutzhund trial, because the dogs need to release after one word from their handler. Obviously, ANY properly bred GSD will have high drive.... they are a herding dog, and a working dog. Her parents obviously want a high drive dog, if they wanted a dog to lay around the house and not even wake up when burglars break into their house, they'd probably be looking for an English Bulldog =0). Of course, since it does not seem like they intend to work this dog, definitely getting a pet quality puppy is the best route to go. I know what you mean, but honestly, if some one looking for a GSD wants a low/no-drive dog, they should look elsewhere. Drive and the desire to please is what makes a GSD the awesome dogs that they are.

YEAH... this dog from champion Shutzhund parents really looks like he's about to rip someone's face off ;)
http://www.truehaus.com/holly.jpg

I have had White Alsatians (White Shepherds). I love GSDs and they can be a good companion if they are socialized and exercised.

I don't know of a breeder in FL but the owner of Cowboy's Obedience School (Dog Sense) has about 6-8 of them. All the staff is involved in rescue. Kirby Hill (the owner) has CH GSDs and many of the staff have GSDs also-- call there at 301-340-8766 and either one of the trainers or he will be able to refer you to a reputable breeder or even set you up with a rescue rep in your area. You can tell them I referred you (Cowboy's Mom - Sandy).

And also ask him about obedience schools in your area (all staff there is into obedience trials and showing too).

Wow that Jerland's is a huge kennel. The dogs look sound. Too much of a slope in the backline though. Do you think all the litters have four pups, except for two that had five? Weird to me. The Hunt's kennel shows how the parents are certified on the puppy page. They have certificates in Schutzhund and obedience. They have one litter planned for November, December, and January already! Wow! Thats a lot of litters for a reputable breeder. Especially since they only have three females. Honestly, I'd look at the rescues. The Tampa Bay GSD Rescue has some pups right now, and lots of young adults.

THANKS for all the wonderful info. I will defnitely be sharing all of this with my parents. I guess it's now to the point where they might have to go outside of Florida to find a pup from a reputable and responsible breeder. I will try to keep everyone updated on the progress of my search. Thanks again so much.

Use this as a guide for filtering out the good and bad breeders:

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html

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Originally Posted by Pit Chick

Use this as a guide for filtering out the good and bad breeders:

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html

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Wow, that is a wonderful guide!

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Originally Posted by Pit Chick

Use this as a guide for filtering out the good and bad breeders:

http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Fair/1901/chart.html

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I love it, I will have to have all of this info to show my parents. Talked to my Mom today and have gotten through to her about BYB's, now have to work on my Dad and this is an excellent tool.

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Originally Posted by bckrazy

I volunteered for GSD Rescue of NorCal at a few events, and I learned SOOO much about the breed in that short amount of time. Most of the dogs (90+%) who were turned into rescue had very unstable temperaments, super high energy and nerves, and almost all of them were in horrendous condition. Consistently, these dogs were of "American" type, with ridiculously curved backs and sloped haunches (total hock-walkers). These dogs were mostly from BYB's, but some were from very popular AKC breeders with Ch show dogs!

I think the BIGGEST red flag you need to look for is anyone who exclusively shows their GSD's in AKC conformation. German Shepherds are NOT Toy Poodles who should be bred to prance around a ring. They are working dogs, above all, and they DO need a job in their life... whether that's a constant companion, a herding dog, a Schutzhund dog, a police k-9, etc. Any breeder you look at should have at least SchH1 titles on all of their breeding dogs and routinely herd with them also. The most important requirement is all of the testing... OFA, Patellas, BAER, etc. GSD's are a very popular, large breed and therefore many of the lines have been ruined by dysplasia and other genetic diseases. You need to get at least a 2-year health guarentee, a spay/neuter contract for pets, and a breeder that is happy to give tons of advice and take back their pup at any time ~ if all of that isn't offered, the breeder is NOT worth your time or money! This is my favorite breeder EVER, of any breed ;) ~ http://www.truehaus.com/index.htm ughhh I love them. I met Cindy and I got to meet 2 of her amazing dogs! I was actually going to get a puppy from them but instead I ended up with Gonzo by chance. Check out their comments page with pics and messages from owners of their puppies... and notice how gorgeous their dogs are! ^.^ they all have nice, sound, beautiful structure and solid compact size. They are NOT sitting on their haunches while standing, and their butt is not 3 inches from the ground because of an awkwardly sloped spine... as you might see in AKC GSD's. They are all working dogs and extensively temperament tested to have the most solid personalities and wonderful obedience you could ever ask for in any dog.

AllAmericanPup... to the contrary, a GSD from working, titled Schutzhund parents has the most reliable temperament you could find anywhere. Schutzhund dogs CANT fly off the handle or go attack whoever, they are a lot less prone to even think of biting anyone than the average neighborhood dog. Schutzhund is basically the highest level of Obedience work - where a dog will literally put his life on the line to complete a task given by his handler. An aggressive dog would never make it in any Schutzhund trial, because the dogs need to release after one word from their handler. Obviously, ANY properly bred GSD will have high drive.... they are a herding dog, and a working dog. Her parents obviously want a high drive dog, if they wanted a dog to lay around the house and not even wake up when burglars break into their house, they'd probably be looking for an English Bulldog =0). Of course, since it does not seem like they intend to work this dog, definitely getting a pet quality puppy is the best route to go. I know what you mean, but honestly, if some one looking for a GSD wants a low/no-drive dog, they should look elsewhere. Drive and the desire to please is what makes a GSD the awesome dogs that they are.

YEAH... this dog from champion Shutzhund parents really looks like he's about to rip someone's face off ;)
http://www.truehaus.com/holly.jpg

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wth? WHERE did i say ANYTHING about a shutzund dog being AGRESSIVE???
i said PERSONAL PROTECTION because that is what SHUTZUND is about.

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Wow that Jerland's is a huge kennel. The dogs look sound. Too much of a slope in the backline though. Do you think all the litters have four pups, except for two that had five?

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The dogs from Jerland are Pure German shepherd meaning they come from Germany. The sloping back is the breed standard in Germany. :D Larry (the breeder) only goes with the German ratings. and I think the pictures of the puppies are of just certain puppies in that litter. I dont think that it is all of them.

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Originally Posted by AllAmericanPUP

wth? WHERE did i say ANYTHING about a shutzund dog being AGRESSIVE???
i said PERSONAL PROTECTION because that is what SHUTZUND is about.

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-_- sorry... I'm used to hearing people say Schutzhund dogs are vicious. I re-read your post, and you're totally right. That wasn't really directed toward you, just to anyone who thinks dogs from Schutzhund lines don't make great pets.

Ok here's a little update. I think I have gotten through to my parents about BYB's. I bombarded my Dad with info that was provided here by all of you. Thanks also to Erica and Sophie for the extras. My Dad is looking into rescue now ( :D ) much to my excitement. This is the route I wanted him to take from the beginning and hopefully he can find a great dog. My Mom said he was on one of the local rescue sites and filled out an application. I will be sure to keep everyone updated and hopefully he will be getting his dog in the near future. He is even looking into a GSD that is not a puppy but still young. I am excited for him and also excited to be getting a new dog in the family. :)

Amber

That's great news! Good thing you could get through to your parents! :)

Amber, that's fantastic news!!! I think that was the best route they could have taken!!! I'm so happy for you, and please do share pictures! :D

That's awesome, Amber! :D Great job helping your parents out. I hope the find the perfect dog for them.

Wow, Schutzhund training sounds SO awesome. One day when I have enough time and money on my hands I would love to train or compete in those schutzhund trials. sounds really really tough but so much fun...