Is it time for a behaviourist

I took my dog out in the garden this week and he had a big stone in his mouth I asked him to drop it but he just sat there looking at me I took charlie in doors and he still wouldnt drop the stone, he was holding it very tight, now tonight I said bed charlie and on his way to the crate he picked up a chew and same happened again for 15 mins he sat with the chew in his mouth I tried to take it out his mouth and he started to growl very lightly, he eventually put it on the carpet so I picked it up, I am frustrated as to why this is happening,What am I doing wrong, he wont do as I say.

Since you don't say how old your dog is let me give you some general thoughts.

First off have you and the dog taken any obedience classes?
If not that might be a good place to start.

Try to think for a moment like your dog, you say give and if he does what happens you take it away. That is no fun for the dog, of course sometimes we have to take things away from our dogs but we want them to give us whatever they have no matter what. First you have to teach him to give it to you when you say give. To do this get your best treats out and say give, and offer him a treat as a trade. When he gives you the object say good and give him the treat ( if he won't give it up get better treats) give him the object back and say give again when he does give him a treat.
I taught my Golden Retriever puppy give using the ball, I would say give and show her the treat when she dropped the ball (give) I gave her a treat.
To take this to the next level practice taking and giving him back all kinds of things, toys, balls, bones, anything of value to him.
The idea behind is you don't want him to think just because you say give it means you are going to take it away, you want him to give it to you just because you asked for it. So practice taking it and then giving it right back. Remember the training has be an ongoing thing, just because he learns to give today doesn't mean in a month he will still remember unless the behavior is practiced and reinforced.
I don't think you need a behaviorioust just a little training and practice. Good luck and let me know how it goes.
Gina

Thankyou for the reply, charlie is one, he does drop his ball with no problem but it is the bones and sticks im having probs with, but I will continue the command and see how we go.

What ginagt says is a good idea, try lots of positive reinforcement. If he growls it's even more important to get him to drop it and reinforce the praise for him dropping it. If you allow him to get away with growling it may be a much larger problem down the line. When we got Bear he was 5-6 yrs old. We don't know his history other than he was severely neglected. He was also extremely food and bone/rawhide aggressive. We could take anything else from his mouth without a problem, and other than that he was extremely laid back. He even went after one of my other dogs for just walking by while he was chewing a rawhide and he's not an aggressive dog. We're now at the point that we can take his food bowl without a problem. The rawhide we still can't remove from his mouth, but we can get him to drop it and walk off if we tell him. We did a lot of positive reinforcement, everytime he got a bone, we'd make him drop it and reward him. If he growled he was told no, then to drop it and if he did he'd get a treat. It took a lot of time and patience, and we still have to reinforce it.

It sounds like Charlie doesn't regard you as the giver of all good things in his life. You need to get him to realize there is no question about giving you something when you ask for it. You don't need a behaviorist at this point if you are willing to enroll him in a obedience class and teach him you are the decision maker.

Obedience classes are essential to establish a bond between the two of you, with you being the one to make all decisions. Training with his kibble would be valuable since it seems to be goodies he regards as his favorite possessions. Make him work for each bite of food he gets. Sit = kibble. Down = kibble. Give = Kibble. Start out teaching "give" or "release" by using something he is not real possessive of. Perhaps a toy. If he refuses to do what you ask, kibble disappears until next meal time when you try again. Eventually, he will understand he needs to listen to you to get his kibble. To spark the training faster, you can try something really irresistable to him. Chicken, hot dogs, cheese, whatever it takes. Ultimately though you want to use his regular kibble.

May I say thanks for your replys, I took charlie to obidience classes at the age of 4months old, he then had his jaw broken so we couldnt go for 5 weeks but I continued training in the house, we then went back to classes he did really well,trainer did say I was dealing with a very strong headed dog, I was training charlie on liver, then he had an upset stomach for 2weeks so i couldnt give the treats, back to training we went and the upset stomach came again, I have had loads of trouble trying to find a diet to suite as the vet did tests and said he had an allegy, charlie is on the NILIF programme and always has been from the age of 2months, he does drop his toys for me and I can take away his food without growling. This is why I cant understand why he has just started being like this. Do you think it could allso have anything to do with our new addition lulu who is a 2 year old female, just a thought, trying to give you as much information as i can.

What breed of dog is Charlie? What breed is LuLu? Which dog takes the alpha role between them in the house? With this new information, it is possible Charlie is doing resource guarding. Did the behavior in question happen shortly after LuLu arrived on the scene?

they are both cavalier king charles, charlies behaviour started about 2 weeks ago, i dont wish to be ignorant regarding Alpha dog as I am still learning, LuLu seems to be alpha dog when it comes to food and chews and growls at charlie when he goes near her. please feel free to ask me anything as I really want to understand dog behaviour, especially mine.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to understand the situation a little better.

How long has LuLu been the new addition? Did anything happen two weeks ago that you noticed to trigger Charlie's behavior of guarding his possession? Where was LuLu when this occurred? Are either of the dogs intact?

As I stated before, I believe you are dealing with resource gaurding issues but the more information there is, the better the determination.

it is nice of you to try to understand, feel free to ask as much as you like , LuLu has been with us now for 10 weeks, she was spayed when we had her, charlie was neutured 2 weeks ago, I havent noticed anything different that I can say triggered this behaviour lulu was already in the crate at the time charlie was getting in,and as charlie got in the chew was on the floor and he picked it up and took it in the crate to bed and wouldnt release it, then they were both in the garden and charlie picked up a large stone and wouldnt release it, allso when on the park the other day he picked up a small stick and carried it all the way home.





Thanks julie

Ok, I think I have a clearer picture. First realize you are not doing anything wrong. It is just that Charlie hasn't been taught certain behaviors that will permit you to take anything from him.

Resource guarding is a normal canine behavior. Those who don't have this issue are lucky or have trained their dogs to know how to give on command! It is annoying to humans, especially if we think of our pet dogs on a human term. How dare our kid not give up his prize toy or treat when we ask for it! :eek: The only problem is your dog is displaying NORMAL behavior and you need to accept it and train the dog differently. This is called classical conditioning.

Until the dog is trained (and after), don't make this a bigger deal than it needs to be. I am saying it doesn't have to be a major issue if the dog holds a chewie for longer than we want him too. He isn't holding it to make you angry. He is holding it (guarding it) because that is what dogs (decendants of the wolf) do. In the mean time, don't supply things that you know will trigger a confrontation. If the dog has something you don't want him to have, you need to make something else more appealing to him or leave him have it.

You wonder why is this happening all of a sudden? LuLu's arrival has more than likely kicked this natural guarding instinct into gear. Remember, Charlie didn't have a need to guard his possessions before she came along because he was the only furkid in the house. Now he has someone he thinks may value his possession as much as he does. Again... normal dog behavior.

So how do you deal with it? You need to teach him not to guard his possessions and to reward him for doing other things. In other words....training, more training and even more training! Your goal is to make your dog understand that the approach of a human to his food, toys, space, etc. is a good thing. Your dog needs to think that you approaching him when he has a prized possession means better prizes are on there way!

Teach your dog to GIVE. Start out with possessions he does not value a lot and treats that are highly valued (the better the treat the faster the training will go). Then gradually work your way up to possessions that he cares a whole lot about. Ask him to give the object, then either wait for him to do so (if he knows the cue) or cause him to do so by presenting food near his mouth. Reward and praise him immediately for dropping the possession. Give it back to him as soon as he's done chewing. repeat this, giving the resource back each time. This will help Charlie understand that giving away his resources to you is a good thing, so there's no reason to guard them.

Condition your dog to expect good things when you approach. Especially if he has some sort of highly prized resource, like a bone or chewie. Start slowly with something he does not guard. Walk over, show him the treat while he's enjoying his low value toy or food, and leave. Do this several time throughout the day. Repeat this with low value possessions for several days until he begins to look up at you, with a "Yea, I'm gonna get a treat" expression on his face. Still using a low value possession, take the possessiony from him, saying "give" first. Immediately pop a high value treat in his mouth and return the possession to him. Over a period of weeks or more, gradually move up to repeating the above with higher and higher valued possessions. Remember to keep your safety in mind. NEVER progress faster than your dog is happily willing to go. If the dog is not relaxed and happy at any stage, you have moved too fast. Back off and start over again. When you are working with higher valued possessions, start by only getting as close as the dogs comfort range will tolerate. If he growls or starts guarding, you have gotten to his trigger point and you've gone far enough. Just drop the treat near him. Move closer as the days go by if the dog is ready. Repeat this entire process with several high value objects. When the dog is ready use the "give" command to actually remove the possession from his grip. Remember to always give the object back. Eventually, you will be able to take anything from him.

Best wishes and let us know how it goes!

thankyou very much for taking the time to reply, we have been doing as you say for the last couple of days, there is one thing I need to ask, you say what ever charlie is gaurding he gives i treat and give him back, well there are things like stones and sticks out the garden that he gaurds i dont wont to give him back the sticks as he eats them and this can cause damage. we are taking him up the garden on a lead now so we have more control of him in the garden as it is very large.





once again thanks

I don't have much to add to Candy's post except to say that I have used the very methods she described in working with my golden retriever, Tommy, to give me things when I want him to give them. He was not showing any aggression, however when he got ahold of something such as a dish towel or sock and we caught him, he'd go tearing off to the back room far back into his kennel and then when I crawled down to get it from him he'd turn his head back and forth away from my reaching hand trying to prevent me from getting it. It was frustrating! He also would not willingly give up his ball and toys so I could throw them for him.

First, I stopped having any reaction when I caught him with something he wasn't supposed to have. My first reaction used to be to say "Tommy! Give that to me!" and of course off he'd go. I went and got a couple tennis balls that he had never played with before and he only had access to these when I was doing training sessions. Using hot dogs, I'd place the ball somewhere or just toss it and he'd go get it and bring it back. I'd put my hand out and say "give it to me" in a neutral calm voice. If he ignored me, I ignored him. He got no treat and the ball didn't get thrown again, he didn't get played with. He caught on pretty quick that giving it to me was much more rewarding than keeping it. I didn't chase him with it. It was comical because at first he'd take the ball and run off to his kennel, I'm sure expecting me to follow like normal. Instead after 10-15 minutes, he'd tentatively come back into the room with the ball in his mouth looking puzzled. ;)

Long story short, after awhile he got more than eager to give me the balls on command. I then randomly worked with him with sticks/logs outside and his toys inside, asking him to give them to me and treating and rewarding him heavily when he did so. It got to where I'd say "give it to me" and he'd give me what he had and look at me wagging expectantly, just what I wanted! I knew I was truly successful when one day outside, he found a stale piece of bread that we had thrown out for the birds and picked it up eagerly to gobble it down. I stuck my hand out and said "give it to me," actually expecting him to ignore me. Much to my astonishment, he dropped the bread into my hand. This is a dog who is extremely food motivated so I just was truly amazed.

I hope with time, work and consistency you can have the same good success and I wish you the best with both Charlie and LuLu!

juju, on things you don't want him to have, instead of offering it back when he gives it to you I'd offer him "something better" whether it be a treat or a special toy. I keep a couple toys that are reward toys, and Tommy only gets to play with them when he has done something particularly good like give up something very tempting. Perhaps you could keep some reward only chews or toys around to offer him in these situations when he gives up the rock or other undesirable object.

What great advice everyone has given you already. I just wanted to add that once the "give" command starts meaning give it to me no matter what it is, your dog will give you things like sticks etc. My Golden puppy loves the ball and so she knows give well (it's the only way the game keeps going) she loves sticks, pine cones and picks them up all the time. When I say give she drops them. It took some training but she does it on command no matter what it is.

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Originally posted by K9soul
juju, on things you don't want him to have, instead of offering it back when he gives it to you I'd offer him "something better" whether it be a treat or a special toy. I keep a couple toys that are reward toys, and Tommy only gets to play with them when he has done something particularly good like give up something very tempting. Perhaps you could keep some reward only chews or toys around to offer him in these situations when he gives up the rock or other undesirable object.

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Exactly! The idea of giving it back is so he realizes he doesn't have to guard things around you. If it is something that you don't want him to have (and obviously can't avoid) then you need to make sure you have something more appealing to "give" him in return for his stick or stone. I don't think I've ever seen a dog pass up a delicious piece of food for a stick or a stone! Your motto is going to have to be "BE PREPARED". Carry treats or fun toys with you all the time, especially until he learns "give" is a good thing! One last note.... make sure when he does give your reward is immediate. A verbal "yes" with exitement (if you don't clicker train) is always a good thing along with the reward. But if it's not immediate, it's a wasted reward. You only have about 3 really good seconds after the behavior to reinforce it.

Thankyou all for your replies it is very much appreciated.