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I try and walk my dogs every day and today we walked by a house and the people own two heelers. We walk by this house a lot. Anyway, I noticed today that there bark is gone.:( They bark like they are real horase. I think their owners probably had them de-barked. I think that's uncalled for. What do you all think about that? Do you think its cruel to do that to a dog?
Wellllllllllll....... I dont know anything about debarking,, but there are days when I wanna de bark my two when they get going!! It hurts the ears,,,,,
Its a hot topic I am sure,,, I pick the fence..... I see both sides.......
I think 99% of the time it's not neccessary. However, in some situations, it's a last resort and saves the dogs lives. I used to work with a woman who had two dogs who barked incessantly. She tried everything--training, bark collars, citronella collars. Nothing worked. They barked when she was home, when she was gone...they barked unless they were sound asleep. Her neighbors complained to the city and she was give a week to deal with the issue or the dogs would be confiscated by the city and euthanized as "nuisance animals". She had them debarked. It saved their lives. The dogs are still able to communicate and are happy, well loved pets.
I recently heard about some new type of surgery that makes the de-barking painless...I think it was a laser surgery. Then again, it's a vague memory -- I could have dreamed it LOL.
I think it's sad when dogs have their vocal cords removed...Besides, what if there is a fire, and the dog tries to bark to wake his owner up but he can't? I always think about that when I think about a de-barked dog. Now he can't alert anyone. He must feel so inadequate.
I guess I never thought of it like that. Thanks for that it makes a lot of sence!Quote:
Originally posted by Glacier
I think 99% of the time it's not neccessary. However, in some situations, it's a last resort and saves the dogs lives. I used to work with a woman who had two dogs who barked incessantly. She tried everything--training, bark collars, citronella collars. Nothing worked. They barked when she was home, when she was gone...they barked unless they were sound asleep. Her neighbors complained to the city and she was give a week to deal with the issue or the dogs would be confiscated by the city and euthanized as "nuisance animals". She had them debarked. It saved their lives. The dogs are still able to communicate and are happy, well loved pets.
Yes, I think it's cruel. I know a few Collie owners and breeders who have de-barked their dogs, and I really don't agree with it. However, if it came down to taking the dog to an animal shelter because of its excessive barking, I would rather see the dog de-barked then end up in a shelter. That's really the only time I would "agree" with having it done.
De-barking does not even get rid of the dog's bark.. it just lowers the volume of it.
My parents have thought about getting Molly de-barked at one time.. and sometimes they still do, but I will not allow it. Collies are KNOWN to bark -- just ask any Collie owner and they will tell you -- and we knew this when we were picking and choosing breeds. Same with all dogs. They bark. I just don't like it when people seem to want to take the "easy way out" with these types of issues instead of taking the time to train them. If it is a last resort, though.. then I do agree with getting it done.
Instead of paying for the surgery... the owner/s could have just threw their hands up in the air and dumped the dog/s off on a friend or in the animal shelter. or worse.. i seen a case on Animal Planet about a dog that was found with barb wire wrapped around its jaws because it barked too much.
Glacier also coverd it pretty well.. when its the last resort what else can you do?
Just the other day i was thinking about it and wondering where u could even find a vet to do it i thought it was downright cruel, now i see in certain situations how it could help . But i still think it is mean, and that barb wire story! Awful! i saw it too, they should of put wire around the person that did that and left them for dead!
I think it should only be done as a last resort thing. I think it's cruel.
I hope your neighbors did not de-bark their dogs.:(
I would never,in any situation, have that done to one of my dogs.
I can think of no medical reason for it. It's only for the convience
of the owner. Any dog that barks 24/7 has a problem. I cannot
believe a person could not find some way to treat the dog, or the
problem behavior some other way.People who de-bark their dogs
are not really solving the dog's problems, only their own.
i am voting for cruel...... because it is.
i don't think it's too cruel. my last siberian was de-barked and i'm thinking of de-barking Gracie.
May we ask what are your reasons?Quote:
Originally posted by lute
i don't think it's too cruel. my last siberian was de-barked and i'm thinking of de-barking Gracie.
ETA: You're thinking of it like it's similar to taking them to get groomed or something. I don't think this is something that should be taken so lightly.
I think it's cruel :(
i use to think it was terrible and i don't take it lightly. the dogs i see that have it done don't seem to mind it one bit. my breeder friend just got 2 of her sibes de-barked on tuesday.Quote:
Originally posted by dukedogsmom
May we ask what are your reasons?
ETA: You're thinking of it like it's similar to taking them to get groomed or something. I don't think this is something that should be taken so lightly.
i personally wouldnt do it.That would be a last resort for me.I sometimes love hearing my dogs bark though.:)
Why would you get it done though, if I may ask? Has Gracie been barking? Just because your friend got two of her dogs de-barked does not mean it's "okay" to do.. ESPECIALLY if there hasn't been a problem with Gracie.Quote:
Originally posted by lute
i use to think it was terrible and i don't take it lightly. the dogs i see that have it done don't seem to mind it one bit. my breeder friend just got 2 of her sibes de-barked on tuesday.
I think training is the best way. Malone was a barker when he was a puppy, so I taught him the command to "stop that noise". It has helped immensely.
That being said, I understand what Glacier is saying. If it's a matter of life and death, I would definitely go the debark route!
Isnt barking a way for a dog to express itself? I think it is mean, unless absolutely necesary , but i still think training is the best way to solve a dogs behavioral problems.
Especially on a dog who has had their voice for so long then to just have it snatched away.
I think its very very cruel. In almost any situation. . its so painful and confusing for the dogs, I'm sure. I totally agree with Julie. . its an easy way out for lazy people. Most people whose dogs bark leave them outside for most of their lives, and barking just becomes a habit to get attention/relieve boredom. In probably 99% of the cases, barking problems can be resolved with training.
And, Lute, I think thats really sad. I hope you dont debark Gracie, especially just because! Huskies are very vocal dogs, they bark and whine and yap when they play and when they're excited because thats in their ancestry. To me, I think its dumb that people expect their dogs to be 100% quiet all of the time. . . its like cutting the vocal cords of a loud and rambunctious child. Yes, it is in their nature to bark, they bark out of excitement, play, warning, and happiness. All of my nieghbors have dogs, most of them are tiny but they can all bark! None of us really care, because we all know each other and have good relationships between us and our dogs. . as long as some one's dog isn't barking for long periods constantly (which, none do because we dont leave them outside all day/night). They're dogs, the bark and always have barked. If they bark incessently, 99.9% of the time that is the owners fault, and its SO not fair to make the dog suffer for that just to have an "easy out".
I think it's cruel, I would never do that to my dogs. Nebo never barks "at" things he's very quiet most of the time. But Reggie and Sydney, being schnauzers of course, bark all the time. It's extremely annoying but I would never consider that. I think the only time barking would be that big of a problem with neighbors is if you left the dogs outside all the time or you were in an apartment.
I think it's cruel and lazy. Dogs are supposed to bark! If you want a quiet animal then don't get a dog! If it's a life or death situation then that's one thing. But to debark it because you don't want to listen to your dog bark, that's just cruel. Especially if you CHOOSE a breed of dog that is known to bark then debark it. You know what you are getting into!
MAXIMUS has a bark that will make you jump sky high, it's usually if he is startled from a nap....but, his barking tells me what's going on....someone prowling outside, a cat sitting in his yard on the other side of the fence....but they all mean something.....even just the wimper or little noises is his way of talking...and oh, this is his best trick....he doesn't bark outside at night...if he has to go out and he hears something going on, other dogs bark, etc. he will do a low growl...when i'm opening the door for him to go out, i remind him ' no barking' ....if he can't control himself, he'll let out a little bark, and i tell him 'there's no barking' and he'll come in...he's so good...i just love him so much....
that is his job you know, taking care of us...!
i'm not de-barking Gracie because my friend is. i'm not even 100% i'm gonna de-bark her.Quote:
Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
Why would you get it done though, if I may ask? Has Gracie been barking? Just because your friend got two of her dogs de-barked does not mean it's "okay" to do.. ESPECIALLY if there hasn't been a problem with Gracie.
Gracie was quiet at first, but as se gets older she barks and howls more and more. because i live in an apartment i was concerned, but not too much. last week the lady that lives on the other side of the wall said she heard her the whole time we were gone(we went out to eat and she had to stay in her crate). if she doesn't get any better then i'll de-bark her.
please don't think i WANT to de-bark her because i don't. i like hearing her "woo" at me, but if she is making my neighbors mad, i might have to do it.
Liz hit the nail on the head! There are many other ways of teaching a dog not to bark. They should be tried first. Someone who goes out and debarks their dog without trying training first is taking the lazy way out. Only after extensive training fails and the life of the dog is in question would this be an option for someone who really has their dogs best welfare in mind. :(Quote:
Originally posted by lizbud
I can think of no medical reason for it. It's only for the convience
of the owner. Any dog that barks 24/7 has a problem. I cannot
believe a person could not find some way to treat the dog, or the
problem behavior some other way.People who de-bark their dogs
are not really solving the dog's problems, only their own.
Doing it out of convenience is cruel..but now that I have read these posts and see the side of it where it may mean the difference between having a dog euthanized or not...well, that makes a difference...I would certainly consider it if I was in a situation where I had people complaining about a non stop barker..thankfully Gracie isn't like that..
so its actually PAINFUL?? Thats really cruel, I've never heard of "debarking". While I'll agree with spaying and neutering, I absolutely wont agree with butchering my animals, and putting them through apparent PAIN & SUFFERING.Quote:
Originally posted by wolfsoul
I recently heard about some new type of surgery that makes the de-barking painless...
I see the point to doing it for those who have loud dogs and sensitive neighbors who write their little letters and make their pathetic little phone calls because they hear a howl or whine or cry and it "disturbs" them. The dog is obviously threatened then, as a responsible owner you do all you can to keep everyones sanity, and your animal alive.
But there *have* to be better ways, rather than removing your dogs tool of communication with you.
one of our old neighbors asked if there anything we could do about him barking at night, you know 'waking everyone up'...he did only bark when he thought there was a reason...but anyway i read all the books, most of the newer books say to do everything without physically making them do it...well everything MAXIMUS has learned, i showed him physically, eg. push his butt to the floor gently and told him sit...when he started barking for some reason at night, i would hold him at the open door and closed his mouth and told him 'no barking' and he picked it up really fast....during the day he can bark all he wants...he IS a dogQuote:
Liz hit the nail on the head! There are many other ways of teaching a dog not to bark. They should be tried first.
I totally agree (especially with that last line :))! Dale was told each time he was let out at night for potty, "no bark"...it took several times, but he got the point and didn't bark late at night. But i have to say, that I loved his bark...so loud and robust...he let me know when something was up...and made me feel safe b/c of his strong voice :) When Christian would be put down for a nap and I didn't want him barking at something outside the window, he would either do a muffled bark, or if not, he got put in the kitchen until Christian woke up...i would hate to think that I couldn't communicate with my family with no voice, so i would never do it to my dog, either.Quote:
Originally posted by Bigyummydog
MAXIMUS has a bark that will make you jump sky high, it's usually if he is startled from a nap....but, his barking tells me what's going on....someone prowling outside, a cat sitting in his yard on the other side of the fence....but they all mean something.....even just the wimper or little noises is his way of talking...and oh, this is his best trick....he doesn't bark outside at night...if he has to go out and he hears something going on, other dogs bark, etc. he will do a low growl...when i'm opening the door for him to go out, i remind him ' no barking' ....if he can't control himself, he'll let out a little bark, and i tell him 'there's no barking' and he'll come in...he's so good...i just love him so much....
that is his job you know, taking care of us...!
I am against de-barking 100%. I know this is a hot topic, much like declawing is, but people come up with these lazy ways to take care of a "problem", when people are the problem to begin with.
De-barking is a very cruel and painful surgery. There are two ways to do it. One is less invasive than the other, but the chances of the bark coming back is also greater in the less invasive surgery. The more invasive surgery can be a bloody mess, and I've seen first hand what it can do to a poor dog. :(
The thing that gets me, is how careless people can be in choosing a breed of dog. I can't count how many times someone has come in with a beagle or a little dog like a pomeranian and they complain about how active they are or how much they bark. Hello!! Beagles are known for barking and high activity...typically. People really need to spend more time researching their breed of dog before buying, and also put more effort into training. A good dog is an image of a good owner.
that's funny...it's like they're trying to whisper....:DQuote:
do a muffled bark,
I also disagree with de-barking. Dog's bark and make other noises to alert us to things aswell as to communicate with other dogs. Tango barks alot, more than I'd like her to but I would never consider getting her de-barked. It's her way of expressing herself. I don't see any reason to get a dog de-barked....
I agree.Quote:
Originally posted by Orangutango
I also disagree with de-barking. Dog's bark and make other noises to alert us to things aswell as to communicate with other dogs. Tango barks alot, more than I'd like her to but I would never consider getting her de-barked. It's her way of expressing herself. I don't see any reason to get a dog de-barked....