http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/sc...ged/index.html
I think this is just so sad. It is especially upsetting that her parents and her husband don't agree on what should be done :( :(
Printable View
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/sc...ged/index.html
I think this is just so sad. It is especially upsetting that her parents and her husband don't agree on what should be done :( :(
This is very close to home for me....the job I have now as Registrar at our Jr High, I have because my friend, Tanya, had the same thing happen to her..that was 4 years ago. She is in the same boat that this poor girl is in EXCEPT that her husband has taken excellent care of her and now has her at home. She has to have 24 our care...he is totally tied down but he will not put her in a nursing home as even her own family told him they would not blame him. He said he married her in "sickness and in health" and he will not abandon her. I admire him. Since her predicament, she has had 2 grand babies..she can't even hold them but she smiles when they are around. Tanya was very outgoing...active in her 3 kids lives..her daughter was in beauty pageants and she always chaperoned...her son's in scouts and she was den mom...when she had the heart attack I was immediately placed in her job...and they held it open for one full year hoping for her recovery...and of course after that, I was made permanent...Tanya and I are good friends and I still go visit with her..don't know how much she understands or knows..but I like to think she knows when I am there. I know she does not want to be living in the situation she is in but I KNOW she would not want to die in the manner of starvation. She is never going to come out of it...she even looks like this poor girl...except red hair..but I can not imagine her husband ever even contemplating that kind of action..and he still hopes for a miracle some day..that is true love..that he will support her til the end...and not play God..and want to end her life in such an evil manner.
I'm conflicted on how I feel about this situation. If she didn't want to be kept alive in that state, I can see where not forcing her to continue on like that is more kind when it comes to quality of life, but I don't like the idea of just leaving her to starve to death. It's one thing to take someone off of a respirator, they would never know it and they would just die on their own, but this is different.
Graciesmommy,
Tanya's husband is an exceptional man to stay by his wife like that and truly stick to their vows. Give him a hug for me next time you see them.
I have mixed feelings about this, my husband always says if that ever happens to him he wouldn't want to live like that.
Look at how humane we are with our pets...we watch people suffer for years...of course with our pets nobody is after any ulterior motives...like money.
The thing is the manner in which they have to die..starvation is a slow agonizing death..the body goes thru dehydration and organs shut down one by one...if it were just taking a person off life support, that is a completely differnt thing all together..I can see that being humane..but not removing a feeding tube and taking days to die..no way.
Pit Chick, you are right, Don is an exceptional man..I have seen him with her and how loving he is. It is amazing..he even gives her birthday parties and every one is invited..takes her to church and ballgames, etc. He has purchased a van that accomodates her wheelchair and takes her to the mall. He tries to give her the most he can socially. Insurance no longer pays for therapy so he does her PT himself plus pays a care giver to come in while he works and they also work with her. Her 2 sisters help where they can. Her mother is not able to help any more..she has some disability herself. But Don does the most part himself.
graciesmommy...Don sounds like an amazing man.
After working with stroke patients who have been in the same state that she is in I know I wouldn't want to be trapped in side like that. They claim shes responsive , its not a satifing response. I couldn't be that way either hubby says the same after all these years can you imangine the frustration she feels (if she can) . I admire her hubby for fighting for her so long . Hes been offered so many ways to be let out of this. He must really love her to keep trying to help her out of this. My concern besides the other is the parents are so much older that who is going to be responable for her when they die?
Pam , I also admire your freind for taking care of his wife, if he is continuing her therapies that could cause a healing. They stopped Terris at least 10 years ago. Even if she ever did come to(so to speck) she would have a very long recovery and some would NEVER come back all the muscles have been atrophed .
Can they adminster large doses of morphine to alleviate pain? That seems the most humane way doing this.
Quote:
Originally posted by Pit Chick
I'm conflicted on how I feel about this situation. If she didn't want to be kept alive in that state, I can see where not forcing her to continue on like that is more kind when it comes to quality of life, but I don't like the idea of just leaving her to starve to death. It's one thing to take someone off of a respirator, they would never know it and they would just die on their own, but this is different.
Graciesmommy,
Tanya's husband is an exceptional man to stay by his wife like that and truly stick to their vows. Give him a hug for me next time you see them.
I have to fully agree with you. (I was going to write almost the same exact thing)
:( This entire thing really bothers me.
We went through something similar with my father. My step mother had sole say in what happened to him. She opted for taking him off life support.
He had signed a living will though. So, we knew for sure what he wanted. I still would have liked to have given it more time before they 'pulled the plug'.
I don't think that just because someone marries into the family, they should have sole say in something like this. The blood relatives should be considered too. Especially when there is no signed document by the person themselves stating their wishes.
The fact that her husband waited 8 years before he first decided to take her off life support really makes me think he just wants to get rid of her so he can marry his girlfriend.
I think if they do decide to kill her, they could at least be merciful and give her a lethal injection so she won't suffer for days and days. Starvation is a horrible way to die.
It breaks my heart that criminals in this country are granted a more merciful death by lethal injection than someone whose only crime was to be sick.
I personally think they should let her parents be responsible for her and put the tube back in. She is not in a coma and sure seems aware to me, from the tapes I've seen.
I'm so torn on this :(
She's breathing and heartbeating on her own, and I've seen the videos of her 'responses' (only impressive one was the swab one), but if I were in her spot I would not want to be like that for so long with all that time going by.
If only she had a LIVING will instead of her hubby saying that she said she didn't want this to happen to her then this battle wouldn't be so long.
I am a bit suspicious of her hubby. He's got another woman, plus two kids, yet won't accept her parents (or someone's) 1million dollars to give them custody of her and divorce her.
This case is the main reason my parents got a living will. Come to think of it, I need to do one for me as well.
Wow, this is turning into a pretty sad day. I fervently hope I will never be placed in that situation, I almost was with my dad, but he ended up passing peacefully.
Pamela please pass on to Don & Tanya my families thoughts & best wishes. Don & Tanya have truly beautiful souls.
This is a sad situation. I really feel bad for her. In this lady's mind, I believe she knows everything thats going on around her. I just think Starving her is so wrong. This is going to painful for her. I just wish there was another way to do this. God Bless Her.
I too have mixed feelings about this, but I do think letting her starve to death is beyond cruel. If letting nature take over and allowing her to die, is the right thing, I can't imagine how horrible a death it would be to starve to death. People have animals taken away from that for that reason, yet it is okay to do it to a human?
I also hate the political side of it. One of the lawyers today was yapping about Republicans and Democrats and how they should vote, and blah, blah blah.
They put dogs to sleep in the humane society more humanely than what they are doing to this woman. :(
My heart & prayers go out to Terri Schiavo's parents. I can't imagine how they must feel as they stand by and watch.
:(
When my Aunt and I saw her on T.V. and saw her moving,
we thought how could they remove her feeding tube?
How could they let her starve to death? How inhumane.
Then after listening to Dr.'s on the news etc.
we started to understand.
Neurological tests and brain scans indicate that her cerebral cortex is now principally liquid.
Removing the feeding tube will not be painfull to her because she can feel nothing.
The law in effect of removing a feeding tube
has been in effect for 20 years,
approved and in full support by the medical field
etc.
My immediate family has a living will.
One of my sisters drew one up for me about 5 years ago
and I left it with the hospital I go to and one with my sister.
My X-husband never had a living will, but told me under no
circumstance would he ever want to be kept alive
by a machine.
I can truely understand how the parents feel not
wanting to let go of their daughter.
But if this was truely Terri's wish
not to be kept alive this way, I can understand
her husband. I do not distrust her husband
nor her parants.
I think both want what is best for her in their hearts.
So any law that might be changed because of this
case might end up effecting all of us who
do not want to be kept alive by a machine
or any other method.
Read the next post. She does not feel pain.
This is not reversable.
It was hard for me to look at Terri moving and understand
what is really going on. I am certainly no medical expert.
This article might help us all understand a little what the
husband feels.
Parts of an article from St. Pettersburg Times Tampa Bay:
It had compared Terri's case with other cases.
Brain scans show that parts of Schiavo's brain have atrophied and been replaced by spinal fluid. With such severe damage, Schiavo can't show the recovery that Scantlin has, said Dr. Michael Pulley, assistant professor of neurology at the University of Florida College of Medicine in Jacksonville.
"Those types of changes don't reverse," Pulley said. "If you lose big pieces of brain, regardless of what it is - trauma, stroke, surgery - it doesn't come back."
The only documented case of someone recovering from a permanent vegetative state came in the early 1980s, said Dr. Ronald Cranford, a neurology professor at the University of Minnesota Medical School who has examined Schiavo.
And in that case, the patient's scan showed no brain atrophy, Cranford said. "The one thing we learned from that, you look at shrinkage of the brain," he said. "Terri has massive shrinkage."
Schiavo also has more severe brain damage than two patients in a New York study published this month, Cranford said. In that study, the patients diagnosed as minimally conscious showed increased brain activity when they heard audiotapes of loved ones' voices.
Cranford said it's hard for people without neurological training to accept that people in a vegetative state can't recover and aren't aware of their surroundings. They sleep. They wake. They grimace.
"It's very hard, because when you look at Terri Schiavo, you can think she's interacting, but she's not," he said. "When you have loving, caring parents like the Schindlers, you just want to deny they're in a vegetative state. It's a terrible syndrome."
- Times researcher Kitty Bennett contributed to this report, which used information from the Associated Press, Kansas City Star, New York Daily News and People magazine.
I have such a hard time with this. I would never want to see anyone live like that. But on the same line, I would never want to see someone starve to death. For a situation like this, I wish that assisted suicide was legal. I wish she could die quickly with dignity instead of starving to death. But on the same token, I sort of feel like they should just allow God's will to be done. If she's meant to live, a miracle will happen when they take her off of support.
My father shot himself twice in the head when he was only 21. He was a vegetable. My mother was only 21 and I was 1 years old. It was such a huge and overwhelming decision for her. My grandmother did not want my father to go off of life support. My mother chose to take him off. My grandmother was very angry with her, but I think it was because grief was clouding her judgement. In retrospect, my grandmother understands that it was the best decision. It wouldn't have been fair to my father, myself, or my mother to keep him living. I couldn't imagine how differently my life would be if they'd kept him alive. I was adopted 2 1/2 years later and raised by a wonderful man. I know that is how my dad would have wanted it for me.
Starvation IS a very cruel way to die. I believe in a Living Will and have one myself. But this is not a case of not taking any extra measures to prolong her life. It's also not a case where she is brain dead. This woman is very much alive. To cause her to starve to death to me is SO inhumane.Quote:
The thing is the manner in which they have to die..starvation is a slow agonizing death..the body goes thru dehydration and organs shut down one by one...if it were just taking a person off life support, that is a completely different thing all together..I can see that being humane..but not removing a feeding tube and taking days to die..no way.
:( The more I hear about this, the more upset I get.
If her husband loved her so much and wanted to carry out her wishes, why did he wait 10 years before he decided to start trying to get her off life support in the first place. He had no problem with her being on life support until he got her money legally.
Seems like her "wishes" should have been carried out immediately.
Also, CNN reports she had filed for divorce before her illness. Also, there have been rumors of abuse. Maybe her husband is afraid she will recover and tell some things. I've seen the film where she follows a balloon with her eyes and moves her head along with it. I believe she knows what is going on. Or at least some of it.
People in comas are often aware of things going on, seems to me she very well could be also.
I can't help it. I think it's legalized murder, plain and simple.
Maybe this is how to commit the "perfect crime.":(
This certainly is a very emotional and sad case. I feel very sorry
for everyone concerned. There was an interesting article on BBC
website about it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4362679.stm
I never knew how she came to be so sick or that the feeding
tube had been removed twice before & then replaced.:(
So sad for all of them.:(
And now they're plugging her back in!?!?! My mom just told me on the news that they've plugged her back in.
And what has this done.. killed the remaining 2 brain cells she maybe possibly had left?
I cannot believe that! She should have been let to die so long ago. I don't mean to sound harsh but I'm so tired of hearing about it. If you can't live without machines, then you're not alive. Let the poor person die and find peace.
I agree with Dukedogsmom! It is inhumane to keep her alive on machines and feeding tubes.... there is no quality of life whatsoever and if it were one of our beloved pets I am sure we would not do so. It is a tragedy that should not be prolonged.
i agree w/momoffuzzyfaces.......there is much more to this than what we are being told......miracles happen every day as we all have been witness to time after time....
:confused: :confused: What happened to the part in the wedding vows "In sickness and in health"????? Did he not hear that part of it, or did the jerk think it only applied to her???Quote:
Michael Schiavo, who has since started a family with another woman
UGH!!! :mad: :mad:
And I remember when this first all started and he refused her therapy...parents had to fight that too...and lost..he only let her have minimal therapy saying it was a waste of $.
I'm not understanding why hes ("husband") doing it, and for so many years. :confused: :confused:
Is he supposed to get super rich when she dies or something?
Whatever the reason, its incredibly sickening to me that a "Doctor" would rather watch a human being starve to death in several weeks time, instead of giving her a quick lethal dose like they do with some prisoners.
For this poor womans mind, body and spirit to recover would be more than a miracle... it would be a scientific, medical impossibility. No way, no how. For "our" government to interfere is the crime that's being committed here and it stinks :mad: Physical responses to outside stimulation does not indicate awareness, happiness, thought process or joy.. or feeling. It is a muscular, involuntary response, nothing more. Has she not suffered enough? Let her go with peace and prayers from us, the living.
As for the 'till death us do part', he already feels she is dead since she (so he says) stated to him she does not want to be like that... that some doctors feel she has zero chance of recovery, and less chance of any cognitive abilities (docs say her brain is atrophied too much).
From what I've read, he won't be "super rich" because that money will be going to her medical bills and fees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo
That site has a bunch of stuff about this case.
I find it very interesting/disturbing that there is information that is NOT (that I know of) being investigated. Nurses say she reacts saying "mommy" "help me" and stuff, as well as not being allowed to see if she can swallow on her own.
As well as information from his ex girlfriend about him stalking her... as well as info about her conversations with friends and her brother about wanting to divorce her husband as he's controlling and abusive.
Why aren't they investigating him?
They frankly, should reinsert tube, start therapy, take her out from the 'care' of her 'hubby' and see what happens. Though I think 15 years is WAY TOO much to try to help her, maybe she will recover.... maybe. Then she can perhaps tell us something.
IF she only had a living will this would have been over with eons ago.
They did? I just read on CNN that they have not replaced her feeding tube (she can breath on her own)...Quote:
And now they're plugging her back in!?!?! My mom just told me on the news that they've plugged her back in.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/19/sc...ged/index.html
im glad they removed it; she wasnt there at all. that poor woman was stuck in purgetory (sp?) for 15 years!
My parents have been talking/"debating" about this all morning.
I completely agree, which is why IMO, assisted suicide should be legal. Living like that is NOT a life for anyone. That poor woman.Quote:
Originally posted by LKPike
Whatever the reason, its incredibly sickening to me that a "Doctor" would rather watch a human being starve to death in several weeks time, instead of giving her a quick lethal dose like they do with some prisoners.
I also just can't believe that they keep removing the feeding tube and putting it back in.. for me, that would be like torture.
It's all very, very sad. :(
She isn't hooked up to "machines".
She is breathing all on her own. The only help she needs is a feeding tube. She might not even need that is she was given a chance to have therapy.
As to why her husband would want her gone, well, he has had two children with his mistress. He can't marry her and make them legal until Terri dies.
What next? Visit all the nursing homes and get rid of all people who have trouble taking care of themselves?
Just a couple of months ago, a lady here in Kansas came out of a coma she had been in for over 10 years. She knows her parents and can speak and is recovering.
Miracles DO happen.
MOFF, this whole thing has got me so upset. I thought I'd stop in at the Dog House and see if there was a thread going and how people are reacting. I can only say that I agree with you 100%.Quote:
Originally posted by momoffuzzyfaces
She isn't hooked up to "machines".
She is breathing all on her own. The only help she needs is a feeding tube. She might not even need that is she was given a chance to have therapy.
As to why her husband would want her gone, well, he has had two children with his mistress. He can't marry her and make them legal until Terri dies.
What next? Visit all the nursing homes and get rid of all people who have trouble taking care of themselves?
Just a couple of months ago, a lady here in Kansas came out of a coma she had been in for over 10 years. She knows her parents and can speak and is recovering.
Miracles DO happen.
This "husband" has been that in name only. His heart and life is obviously with his other family. The people who love and care about her are her parents and I simply cannot understand why he doesn't turn things over to them and let them take her home and care for her as they want to so much. With no living will, the thought of ending her life should not even be entertained. Every time I see the "husband" on TV I get sick to my stomach. I heard today that years ago he refused an MRI for her and has never allowed her to have speech therapy. There is a question of whether there was physical abuse in the marriage. No wonder he wants her to remain mute and eventually dead. This whole incident will certainly set a horrible precedent if she is allowed to die.
What I would do if I were in control of this situation would be let her parents take care of her and order all sorts of rehab and therapy for her that might be helpful. I'd give them 6 months to a year to see if there is any improvement. Then I would re-evaluate her condition. After this long, one more year shouldn't matter to her husband and may make a world of difference to her.
At least give her a fighting chance to improve.
What a paradox we have here all in the same week. A wretched excuse for a human being has snatched an innocent 9 year old girl from her bedroom and killed her. He is on "suicide watch." People (for some insane reason) don't want him to die. Why? I say give him a little poison and leave him alone for a few minutes and see what he does. Why is there so much care taken for the rights of hardened criminals and none for a woman such as Terri Schiavo. Who is looking out for her? Thankfully some are and I applaud them.
not to bring in another controversial topic but..
this is another reason why i totally supported Dr. Covorcen's idea with helping people.
My husband and I both have signed living wills. I urge you all to do the same. That way, during an awful, emotional time, your wishes can be carried out. I hope that none of my loved ones ever have to make this awful decision. But, if they do, I hope that the living will I signed will comfort them and they will not feel conflicted about disconnecting me from all artifical means of support.
All they would be doing is letting my body die. My spirit would be long gone, crossed over the rainbow bridge, reunited with Kuhio for all time.
I remember reading that Christopher Reeves' mother wanted to "pull the plug" after he was paralized. She received a lot of criticism about it. But, when Christopher was able to talk again, he calmed everyone down and told them that she had just been trying to carry out his wishes. Luckily for them, they had 10 more years together before he died.
From what I've read about this case, Terry's husband has tried to carry out her wishes (or what he tells us is her wishes) from early on. This is not a recent development. It hits the news every few years. I am very upset that the government is getting involved. Yes, it would be great if her family could come to an agreement. But, getting the government involved is not the way. How would you like some strangers in Washington telling you how to handle your family business?
I am so angry over this.
Terri's husband has moved on with his life . . . has a new woman, children . . . he needs to let this go also.
I wish that the family could make this decision . . . but I only think that it should be left in the family's hands IF the ENTIRE family can come to the same conclusion. And obviously that's not the case.
In 1997, Terri was eating and drinking with her mouth. Her husband ordered that she only have the feeding tube. Now he wants to starve her to death . . .
This is his way of getting rid of his guilt . . . the guilt of moving on with his life.
To starve her to death . . . how can anyone be OK with that?
Mancow said it best this morning . . . We can't starve a dog to death, but . . .
This is just so upsetting . . .
This is truly a tragic situation but the federal government HAS NO BUSINESS getting involved for either side. I was floored that the state government passed "Terri's law" and was glad when it was overturned. I'm truly p*ssed that the federal government thinks it should get involved when the Supreme Court has already said it will not listen to the case because it does not have jurisdiction. It is a ploy for votes, nothing else ,and I look forward to it blowing up in their faces.