i am going to a reputable breeder for my next puppy...
What are your imputs on breeders who are breeding, NOT for profit, NOT for fun, but to better the breed.?
B Good breeder, not puppy mill, or BYB.
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i am going to a reputable breeder for my next puppy...
What are your imputs on breeders who are breeding, NOT for profit, NOT for fun, but to better the breed.?
B Good breeder, not puppy mill, or BYB.
I think you know mine. :)
no i dont... i have just been hearing alot of posters bashing ppl because they didnt rescue. instead of rescuing a dog, they went to a reputable breeder or are going to a good breeder..... i just dont get it....
Personally, I would never go to a breeder. To many dogs die every year and I don't think I could look at my dog Breeder bred dog and know that I could have saved a life instead of spending hundreds to have a pur-bred (if I HAD to have a certain breed, I would go to a breed rescue). I would love the Breeder bred dog no less then I would have a shelter dog but I think, personally, the guilt would catch up to me. I don't ever plan to show dogs, so I don't see why I would ever need a pur-bred. So me, personally, I would never go to a breeder, no matter if they were reputable.
HOWEVER, I do not think any less of a pur-bred dog or there owners, my mom's Sheltie Teddy is pur-bred and my sister's Pom is. I love them both dearly. I do not think of my mom or sister any less because they bought there dog's from a Breeder. I think it depends on personal choice. If you want to buy a dog from a breeder, then I have no problem with you, the dog or your choice. As long as the breeder is reputable.
I know I will always have rescued dogs. If I ever want a pur-bred I will go to a breed rescue. That is me though, every person is diffrent.
Don't know if that was the kind of answer you were looking for or not.
Ashley
We've used a breeder and I'd do it again, if I was looking for a specific dog. My husband had a very set list of things he wanted in a dog when he was looking for a husky--Muskwa was that dog.
My theory on a reputable breeder is:
Both parents have full health certifications--hips, eyes, and any conditions that the breed is predisposed to. Health guarentee on any puppies.
Not breeding for specifics--like a husky breeder trying for only blue eyes. That to me is a red flag--what happens to the brown eyed pups?
No more than one or two litters a year.
Breeder can provide rationale for why they crossed particular males and females.
Breeding dogs are champions or excel at what the breed is designed for. Muskwa doesn't come from a show line of huskies, but he does come from a competitive racing line.
Careful screening of potential owners.
Follow-up on those owners. Muskwa's breeder still contacts us a couple times a year to check up on him.
Return policy. It's in our contract for Muskwa that at any time if we can't care for him, he is returned to his breeder. A good breeder is responsible for life for the pups they brought into the world.
Kennels are clean and well maintained.
Dogs' temperments are appropriate for the breed.
Altering contract for those pups sold as pet quality or who clearly don't meet the breed standard.
Breeding to the breed standard--No Giant Alaskan Malamute or Wooly Huskies.
Kennel is open to visitors--if not, I suspect they have something to hide. I want to see where my puppy lives.
That's all I can think of for now.
PS: I only used huskies and mals as examples since those are the breeds I know best.
I hope nobody bashes me for this but honestly I'd rather get a dog from a reputable breeder or a certain breed rescue. I've had 4 dogs come from a rescue and they've all ended up with some sort of health problem or another. Breeders breed for health and tempermant and I feel safer knowing that I ahve a better chance of my dog having a longer life and possibly a better tempermant buying from a breeder:) That's just my opinion though, I certainly would not object to adopting a dog from a humane society but I jsut feel better buying from a breeder.
Here is a helpfull web site that one of the Akita owners
set up to help people choose a good breeder.
You need to scroll down the page to "How to choose a breeder" and click on the links.
http://www.shoboakitas.com/breederpuppynetwork.html
I completely agree with Orangutango...
Not only do they get health problems, but they can also have temperamental problems as well... (Not your dogs, but rescue dogs in general... You never know what you're getting. I'd rather get a dog from a reputable breeder, having met the dog's parents, and knowing the temperament of the dog and it's family...)Quote:
I've had 4 dogs come from a rescue and they've all ended up with some sort of health problem or another.
I am getting my puppy next year. He is coming from a reputable breeder. :) Maybe one day in the future I will get a dog from the shelter (maybe even another catahoula :) ), but now, for my own personal reasons, I'm going with a reputable breeder.
Reputable breeders are the greatest! They're what drives the breed forward and keeps it healthy and thriving. I can't stand people who bash people who breed for show and those who breed reputably.
Reputable breeders are NOT the problem. They will take the dog back, no matter what. Therefore, they cannot and are not the problem with overpopulation.
And there's plenty of dogs in rescues in shelters that are perfectly good dogs and have no problems at all. They may already be trained/housebroken too...many people give up dogs, and not just because the dog has a health or behavior issue. People give up dogs because they don't have time or they are moving and can't take the dog as well as a million other "reasons."Quote:
Originally posted by BCBlondie
Not only do they get health problems, but they can also have temperamental problems as well... (Not your dogs, but rescue dogs in general... You never know what you're getting. I'd rather get a dog from a reputable breeder, having met the dog's parents, and knowing the temperament of the dog and it's family...)
Admittedly I have never gotten a dog from a rescue, but I'm sure somebody that has worked with rescues has seen a lot more bad owners than bad dogs. What you just said just saddens me, it puts out a very bleak outlook for any rescue dog.
As far as the reputable breeder thing, I am not against that at all. I think all of the things Glacier mentioned mentioned are very good points when looking for a breeder. I do not see reputable breeders as contributing to the pet overpopulation problem. They will take back the dog if the home doesn't work out plus they have spay/neuter contracts.
My dogs all came from breeders, BYBs mind you. I know better now and will not do that again. I know that when I was told that I could get a puppy I was too excited to really care where I got one...I did know that I wanted a pup (mostly because of Reggie and Smokey not liking other dogs) and I wanted a purebred siberian husky. I'm sure with enough time I could have found a reputable breeder or even a husky pup through a rescue. But I didn't, so there's no going back and I love Nebo no matter where he came from.
I have felt hurt on PT from comments about getting a dog from a breeder vs. a rescue. Just as I'm sure people with rescue dogs are hurt by comments that imply all rescue dogs have "issues." If I am ever able to get another husky I want to get one from a rescue or shelter, even if the dog has issues...Nebo has issues too (and I raised him from a pup) and I think we could work through them. If I felt that I wanted to show the dog I would find a reputable breeder.
I don't see the point in critisizing others for where they got their dog, it's how the dog is treated that is important. If people want to think badly of me because I have a "BYB dog" then so be it, but I know that he is a spoiled and loved family member. People may get dogs from reputable breeders or shelters and not take good care of the dog, which is a far greater problem IMO than where the dog came from.
Disclaimer: I'm tired and in a ranting mood I don't even know what I typed....I will stop editing and adding crap now I swear.....;)
I agree with Amy -- You can definatly find great puppies and dogs at shelters that don't have temperment issues. Health can be another matter -- at our SPCA, something is ALWAYS wrong with every dog in the health department, it seems. :( But that's only our SPCA. I know people who have adopted nice, healthy pups. :)
I totally agree with Amy. Any dog can develop a temperament problems and issues... some of the greatest dogs ever have come from rescue (look at Kay's dogs, and all the other rescues on PT!!). No, they're parents probably were not health or temperament tested, and they probably weren't registered dogs, but rescuing dogs is worth it - I would consider it waay before buying from any breeder.
Good breeders are awesome, but I tend to disagree with people buying a dog from a breeder when they do not have any particular needs that ONLY that purebred puppy can meet. I mean, if you are planning to compete in show and activities with your dog, or you want to get into therapy work or guide dogs, then breeders are great. But, I definitely understand what you're saying about the "safeness" of a purebred puppy.. rescues can result in tons of time/money spent on trainers and vet bills, but most of the time they are totally worth it. I guess it just depends T.T .. I also know plenty of good people that got their pups from excellent breeders, and they have spent literally years trying to correct their dogs issues, and some have dogs with severe health problems also.
If you've volunteered at all in rescue, you know that a huge majority (I would say 90%) of owner turn-ins are not the result of anything the dog has done. The dog is perfectly fine, its the irresponsible people who ignore and neglect their dogs that is the problem.
lol.. I'm being rambly too :p
Good breeders are awesome, but I tend to disagree with people buying a dog from a breeder when they do not have any particular needs >>>>>>>>>>>>
(not to point you out bckrazy, I respect your opinion)
Not every dog from a show breeder has the potential
to be a great champion. Reputable breeders rely
on good pet homes just as much as show homes
to place their dogs.
Even potential show dogs that do not meet up to
the breeder’s expectations will need a good pet home.
So with-out good pet homes the reputable breeders
would not be able to continue their breed program
to better the breed.
Each dog whether a rescue or not deserves to be loved
and a good home..
Good breeders and good pet owners are not the problem
on why most dogs are in shelters.
Thank you for saying all of that Amy. Because of my emotional involvement, I was having a hard time trying to come up with the right words to post, but you did a great job.Quote:
Originally posted by wolf_Q
And there's plenty of dogs in rescues in shelters that are perfectly good dogs and have no problems at all. They may already be trained/housebroken too...many people give up dogs, and not just because the dog has a health or behavior issue. People give up dogs because they don't have time or they are moving and can't take the dog as well as a million other "reasons."
Admittedly I have never gotten a dog from a rescue, but I'm sure somebody that has worked with rescues has seen a lot more bad owners than bad dogs. What you just said just saddens me, it puts out a very bleak outlook for any rescue dog.
It really hurts me too to read such things that keep being said about rescue dogs. In fact, this is the second time in two days that I've been brought to tears because of the same comments on a couple threads. It hurts me so much because I know for a fact that it just simply isn't true. I have had more than enough experience in the rescue field to know that. I have over 20,000 hours of volunteer time at one shelter along with years of working as a volunteer and employee at other shelters and rescues.
There are some dogs with issues in shelters, just as there are dogs with issues at breeders. Not every dog from a shelter will have issues, just as not every dog from a breeder will be so wonderful and healthy. In my experience, mixed breeds are far more healthy than pure. If someone is so worried that their dog will be some awful behavioral case, then find a good shelter who you trust. Some shelters do more behavioral evaluations than others. A city shelter is required to take in every animal that comes to their doors, whereas a no-kill shelter is more selective with their intake process. Most of them will only take the most highly adoptable dogs so they can have a faster turnover and save even more dogs. A lot of no-kills don't want to have a behavioral issue on their hands because that means the dog will probably sit in that cage for months when they could have adopted out several dogs from that cage in the same amount of time. My shelter has an extensive temperament test, a strict plan of action from the high level volunteers to correct behavioral issues, and a follow-up routine. We do our very best to let people know EXACTLY what kind of dog they are adopting because we want people to be happy and love their dogs, and we don't want to see our precious dogs being returned because someone got what they weren't expecting. No, not every shelter is like that, but there are a lot. When adopting, sometimes it is important to find a shelter you can trust, just as when buying, it is important to find a breeder you can trust.
I don't think badly of any of you who bought your dogs from a breeder. It is not something that I will ever do, but it is not something I think you're a bad person for.
I personally have a lot of training experience so I like to take on the hard cases from the shelter that no one else wants. It tears my heart apart to think what would have happened to Lolly if I hadn't taken her. It literally almost makes me faint to imagine my life without either Reecie or Lolly in it. Not everyone is like me though, and that is fine. But you can still go to a shelter and walk out with a PERFECTLY normal dog. Just because the dog is in a shelter doesn't mean its a menace to society. Some people have the stupidest reasons for surrendering their animals. Lets see ... one lady dropped off her dog because his hair did not match her new couch and he kept shedding on it :( Another man dropped off his dog because his new girlfriend thought she was ugly :( Not to mention the insane amount of people who come in claiming they are moving tomorrow and just have to leave their animals behind. I always wonder what planet they are going to that doesn't allow animals :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Now are those dogs at fault? Are they bad? Nope. They were unlucky to belong to such irresponsible people.
My own shelter here has had everything from a purebred 8 week old Chinese Crested to a purebred Irish Wolfhound, and everything in between. If you are dedicated and have the heart, you will find exactly what you are looking for, and more, in shelters.
Shelter animals are not any less deserving than purebreds, just as orphaned human children are not any less deserving of love and a second chance at life.
personally i would never get a dog from a breeder..all my dogs are rescues and well i am not saying that reptuable breeders are bad my aunt is one..and it does bother me somewhat but if i tell her not to do it doesn't mean she won't..and well i just would only get rescued dogs or from a pound or a shelter or a rescue group..and i just feel strongly about getting from a breeder just because others do it doesn't mean i'll do it..
What a wonderful, truthful, post, Aly. Thank you!!! :)
Amen Amy & Alyson!!!
As I said yesterday, if you take time and work with a dog (as you should ANY dog in your life) with patience and understanding, you'll have a great companion, regardless of where that dog came from.
It really saddens me that anyone thinks "less" of rescued dogs.
:( :( :(
I totally understand, and know that. I know many good breeders, and usually 9/10 times the pups are not show quality and are sold to pet homes. I mean if the person does not need that purebred dog for a particular reason (like I said, activities like agility, or specifically for needing that solid temperament) then I wish more people would look at shelter dogs and not stereotype them all... hm... anyway, I'm not against anyone who buys from a reputable breeder. Actually, buying from a good breeder and getting a shelter dog are just as good either way - as long as people avoid pet store/puppy mill/BYB's.Quote:
Originally posted by KYS
Not every dog from a show breeder has the potential
to be a great champion. Reputable breeders rely
on good pet homes just as much as show homes
to place their dogs.
And, yeah, just like Amy said, its more important how you treat your dog than anything else.
I have no problem with reputable, responsible breeders. Key words being reputable and responsible. Glacier posted a wonderful list of things to look for in a breeder.
We got Kito from a breeder, and the other 3 are rescues. Does that make him any better (well, in his mind it does:rolleyes: )? No, it certainly doesn't. We actually have no information on his breeders at all, because we got him through a second party. The woman who originally bred him got ill, and gave them to two of her friends in the dog show world, who then sold him to us. There's no doubt in my mind that the actual people we got him from are responsible breeders, but they didn't breed Kito. I would go back to them in a heartbeat for another Shiba.
It's a personal decision, whether to buy or rescue a dog--no one else's business. It breaks my heart to see and hear of all the dogs in shelters, but I can't take them all. I have mine, so I've done good for 3 lives, but that's all I can do right now.
I don't see a reason for bashing anyone for either---my crew is proof that you can get a wonderful dog from a breeder, breed rescue, from some crazy lady outside the spca, or at the spca:)
I'll have to ditto Amy & Aly as well. Very well said girls.
Have three rescues myself, it upsets me to no end seeing someone say that type of stuff.
Having seen dogs in high-kill shelters, there one day, but gone the next.. without being adopted upsets me to no end.
I couldn't care less where someone gets their dog... although i'd much rather see every dog in the shelter with a home. Myself, however, will NEVER EVER get a dog from a breeder. Why?
There's plenty of perfect dogs in the shelters.
My three rescues behave a 100 times better than my neighbor's Pure Bred Lab from a reputable hunting dog breeder, which they paid big $$ to fly from Seattle. They've had so many health problems and behavioral problems with her, more than i've had in my 7+ years of owning dogs.
I hope my three never see how "lesser" they are than perfect pure breds.... they mean the world to me.
I think that last sentence says it all. Thank you Aly.Quote:
Originally posted by aly
Shelter animals are not any less deserving than purebreds, just as orphaned human children are not any less deserving of love and a second chance at life.
I don't think anyone said they were?Quote:
Originally posted by Giselle
Reputable breeders are NOT the problem. They will take the dog back, no matter what. Therefore, they cannot and are not the problem with overpopulation.
clara4457- I agree with you there. That is a very powerful, eye opening statement Aly ::hugs::
I got Nova from an animal Shelter in Lock Haven PA and I got Connor from an Animal Shelter in Myrtle Beach SC. The have not been sick Once, I have had Nova for 2 years and Connor for less then one. People always are asking me how I taught my dogs so much and how I am able to keep them so well behaved. I get compliments left and right about my dogs.
I think it is un-fare for you guys to judge shelter dog's as a group. A lot of healthy, loving dogs come from animal shelters. If you don't personally want to get a shelter dog, then fine, go to a breeder but don't place all shelter animals into an "unhealthy temperment unknown" group.
Ashley
I guess I want to comment on a couple things, but this is a sensitive subject and I believe people can easily take things wrong or read more into what is being said... I only hope I can be concise enough that that won't happen with this post.
When people talk about health problems and unknown bloodlines, they generally are talking about purebred dogs who are particularly prone to things, such as German shepherds being prone to hip dysplasia and collies prone to eye problems for example, and when they talk about avoiding this possibility by getting a puppy from a reputable breeder, they are doing that because a lot of these breed-inherent problems tend to be hereditary and passed down through genes and bad breeding. A reputable and responsible breeder will breed to prevent these things as well as certify that they have been tested for that breed-specific problem. It is no guarantee of course that the dog will always be healthy, but there is less a chance of it than getting an unknown purebred pup whose parents may have been from a puppymill and had generations of hereditary disease. I truly don't think anyone actually feels that a shelter or rescue dog is automatically less healthy, and mutts especially are known to be more vigorous! I'm pretty sure Tommy was originally from a puppy mill and I used to worry a lot if he'd have any of the myriad health problems goldens can be prone to come up, but so far he has had a pretty clean bill of health :).
I admire and applaud anyone who adopts from a shelter or rescue, my two are both rescues, but I completely understand and have nothing against those who choose to go to a responsible breeder, though I hope they do their homework and make sure the breeder truly is responsible. Glacier stated well what I would consider to be responsible breeding.
In a perfect world there would only be purebred dogs responsibly bred, all with forever homes lined up before leaving their mother's side. I'd sure miss mutts though, I must admit, even though any mutt is the result of irresponsibility. There will always be careless, ignorant, and irresponsible breeders and dog owners though, and a great many of us working hard to keep the dogs from paying the price of their actions. As opposed to these irresponsible, ignorant, or greedy puppymillers, responsible breeders are the ones doing things the RIGHT way in their breeding.
For me, it all comes down to each person has to follow their heart and do what they feel is best for their family and the dog based on their particular situation.
Alot of familys, like ours cannot go to a shelter to just pick and adopt a dog. Why? Because my family has needs to know HOW the dog will end up when its older. Because we can't have a dog that will end up shedding because my brother's allergies. Or we can't get a dog that we have no idea how big it will be. We can only have small dogs, because its what we perfer.
Thats why we turned to a breeder to know what we were exactly getting into. I wouldn't want to be unfair to a shelter dog who didn't match our needs, and have something horrible happen to it. Like place in a new home for example.
And thats my reason.
That is exactly what my family went through, my mom has allergies and couldn't have a dog that would shed or would make her allergies act up.Quote:
Originally posted by Amber
Alot of familys, like ours cannot go to a shelter to just pick and adopt a dog. Why? Because my family has needs to know HOW the dog will end up when its older. Because we can't have a dog that will end up shedding because my brother's allergies. Or we can't get a dog that we have no idea how big it will be. We can only have small dogs, because its what we perfer.
Thats why we turned to a breeder to know what we were exactly getting into. I wouldn't want to be unfair to a shelter dog who didn't match our needs, and have something horrible happen to it. Like place in a new home for example.
And thats my reason.
We looked at many breeds, Bichons, Malteses, Poodles, Shih tzu, and other dogs that would 'fit' into our family. We looked at shelters, petfinder.com, etc. But, we also needed a dog that would be ok with my 2 younger sisters (at the time they were 2 1/2 and 7 -ish)
Being unable to find a dog that would meet our needs after looking for a few years at many shelters we turned to a breeder. Like Amber said, we didn't want to be unfair to a dog for something they couldn't help, like shedding and making my mom have an allergic reaction.
BTW, I have absolutely nothing against shelter dogs. I have talked to my parents that if we are to ever get another dog, I want to look into more shelters than we did. When I get my own house someday and have no 'limits' than it will be easier to find an adoptable dog, but for now my family and I are just lucky to have found a great dog! :)
I hope my post made sense, I'm really tired right now. Please excuse any mistakes. :o
Zoey is from a reputable breeder. It's been nearly 4 yrs since I brought her home and to this day I still talk with her breeder. My next Giant will be from a reputable breeder as well. I love this breed and will always have one. Giant Schnauzers in rescue are few and far between. I do see myself getting a shelter dog in the future though.
I'm all for reputable breeders. Most of them also take part in some sort of animal rescue. Like it was stated, they are not the ones who should be blamed for the pet overpopulation problem. Your anger should be turned towards the BYB's, puppy mills, and irresponsible owners instead of just bluntly saying, "All breeders are bad" (and no, I'm not directing this towards anyone, I'm just trying to make a point). The same goes for shelter dogs. Of course not all of them are "bad".
My dogs were both purchased from BYB's, but that was before we knew better. Do I regret making that decision? No, never. They mean far too much to me to even think that.
I am planning to get my future dogs from reputable breeders.. as well as shelters and rescues. I'd love (and plan to) adopt an older dog from my local shelter sometime in my life. :)
I admire those here who have adopted from an animal shelter, and I especially admire those of you who devote such a big part of your life to fostering and rescuing these animals and finding them 'forever homes'. :)