Confused, Depressed, Sorrowful

The days' worth of gay / lesbian / hate / christianity debates have left me feeling totally upset and downright empty. :( :(

I am sitting here in tears, as I try to make some sense of what I am feeling, thinking, writing. All of my life, I have had rules, beliefs, opinions and religion drilled into my brain mostly by my father. My entire adult life has been a struggle to try and find my own beliefs, make my own choices, and be my own person. I sat back and watched every single one of my family, break one of the great "NO-NO" Christian laws according to my earthly Dad. He has condemned, judged, and disowned nearly every member of my family at one time or another. Most recently, he disallowed my daughter and her "fiance" from coming to Christmas Eve at his home, because they had baby Jenna out of wedlock. This hurt me terribly, and hurt my precious daughter Amy Beth, to know that her beloved grandfather (Dede) would act this way.

Now here today, I have participated in a heated, hurtful debate with people whom I have grown to love and respect here on PT. I wonder if I will ever truly know whether what I have come to believe was discovered on my own, or if it is only what has all been drilled into my brain for so many years. I do believe and trust in God, but I also have to believe that He is loving, forgiving, and compassionate. He would never inflict harm or malice or pain on another of His children. When we bring up any sort of touchy subject, someone always ends up a victim, and leaves wounded and suffering. I hurt today for dear Laura, and any others who may have different lifestyles than the so-called "norm".

It is not ANY of our places, (my Dad included) to JUDGE another. The Bible most definitely teaches "judge not lest ye be judged"!!! It is my sincere hope, that as I mature more in my life and my walk with God, that I will become a loving, non-judgmental, and compassionate woman .... for being like Christ, is truly what is meant by the term "christian".

I hope to one day have someone be able to say, that they can see Jesus in me. In the meantime, Lord, please forgive me for my sinful human ways.

In His Love,
Kim

One thing, that I learned long ago, was the 'suspension of belief'- sometimes you can walk across the street and see what the view is from there.....

As long as you hold your beliefs close to your heart, no one can question how you feel.

They can question your vocalization of those beliefs, but until they can get into your heart, they won't know what is in there.

I don't think any 'god' would really kick your rear if you made an exception to the rules.

I like to think that god kinda looks at people and says, "Cool,
here's a person that can use their heart AND their mind at the same time."

-------------------------------
I was body surfing at the beach once and got caught in a rip tide.

I was going to die if I fought Mother Nature and the undertow.

I gave up swimming against the tide, got sucked along for a bit and found my way to shore.

Heroes go down fighting.
Fighters find a way to fight again and again.

I'd like to think we are all fighters.
;)

Kim,

What a sincere and touching post! However, I wish you didn't feel depressed or sorrowful because you have been exposed to ideas different from those you have known before. Accept them or reject them....but don't feel remorse...please...you are too good a person.

Probably the moment I was closest to my father was when I was in college. My father has been a practicing Catholic all his life. A woman I knew in college was to be married. Her parents, her brother, her whole family was boycotting the wedding because she and her fiance had made a very reasoned decision to be married in a different church. The dean of our college was to have walked her down the aisle and had died suddenly. It was very sad.

I asked my father what he would do. He replied...."what a strange thing to lose your child over! A wound like that will never heal. Who knows which concept of God is right? Maybe some tribe in darkest Africa has the right God. What matters is how you live your life."

And you, Kim, live a good life!

It is difficult sometiems to find our way as Christians in the world, isn't it? Know that we love you, and God loves you, Kim - maybe that order should be reversed - and I do not believe you have done anything wrong. Your participation in the discussion has not been angry nor vitriolic, and your love shines through in your posts, though you may not know it.

My relationship with my parents was not as troubling as yours when in comes to religion. I was lucky - I come from a "generic Protestant" family, that believes no one denomination can claim they have God "right." I have encountered other families that were not that way, which was always weird for me to realize.

Don't be sad, okay? We love you!

Kimlovescats,

What Edwina's Secretary and Karen said!!!

You are entitled to your feelings. No one can take that away from you. Your Dad is from the old school, just as my Dad was. But things change and so do circumstances.

I feel bad for you and Amy Beth and that precious little granddaughter of yours. You guys are the ones who have been hurt because of your Dad's beliefs.

Hang in there, love your daughter and baby Jenna. Know that God has forgiven, and always will. Move on and hope your Dad will find it in his heart to forgive. If not, it will truly be HIS loss. :(

Kim,

I don't know what happened in the earlier threads, because I didn't see them before they got deleted, but I just wanted to say: please cheer up. Please don't let these debates get to you too much. Just take the new thoughts that have entered into your head today, and write them down in a journal, to be pondered on another day, when you aren't so emotionally drained.

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It is not ANY of our places, (my Dad included) to JUDGE another. The Bible most definitely teaches "judge not lest ye be judged"!!!

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You are darn right, sister. I'm glad you think that way!!

Peace ,

Liz

:)

That was a wonderfully heartfelt post, Kim...I kinda know where you are coming from with your father, I am in the same boat so to speak..very very predjudice/ judgemental father here too..and we have never been close...as hard as I have tried..never going to happen but I love the ole coot..

Baby Jenna is lucky to have you as a grandma...You and your daughter just break the cycle and teach her love...that is what I have tried to do with my kids/grandangels...life is too short...we need to love and show that love while we can~

Ok, here goes another post in the Dog House which I swore I was going to stay out of!;) :D

I kept my opinions to myself concerning the other threads but for you Kim I will let it all hang out. :D

My parents divorced when I was very young. My mother was always checking out new religions when we were children. One year we were Senventh Day Adventests, eating no meat and going to church on Saturday. We were even enrolled in the church school. Our field trip was a trip to the slaughter house to see the animals killed so we would not eat meat. Mind you I was in second grade for that trip!

The next year we were worshiping a Guru in India. We would go to this place and I would have to wave incense and bow down before a photograph of a Guru's feet.

The next year there was no God and Angels were really aliens. The chariots in the Bible were really spaceships and the aliens were watching us to see if we could progress to their liking. At one point when I was a very small child she told me that she and I were taken aboard a spaceship that only she and I could see. Sorry I don't remember that! We would have to sit and meditate so the aliens could come through us and speak.

The next year she had some type of alter in the living room and she would play this weird music and we would have to stand in the middle of the room with our hands over our head and spin as fast as we could. That was supposed to drive the demons from our fingertips.

And on and on it goes!

Needless to say I was a very confused person.:rolleyes: After many years of soul searching, praying, begging, and studying I found peace. I believe there is only one God (no matter what we call him) and I believe that He loves us. I believe that He knows our whole life and the struggles we endure and allows us room for error and mistakes. He made us human and Jesus came in our form so he truly understands the trials of human nature.
I often wonder what would have happened to me if I had died during my youth before I had the chance to learn what is truth for me. Would I have gone to hell since I didn't know any better? Surely God would not have punished me that way when I didn't know any different. I firmly believe that we should not judge others but we are human and we are going to fail. All we can do on this earth is to take each good and bad thing that happens to us and make that a lesson. We beleive that God will forgive us and we have to learn how to forgive ourselves as well as others.

For me one of the most profound conclusions I have come to is this: I will answer for no one but myself. God truly knows my heart and my intentions. It is up to me to keep those thoughts and intentions good and Godly. If I fail all I can do is ask for forgivness and learn from what I have done.

You are a great person Kim and I don't think you would ever intentionaly hurt anyone. What you feel and what you believe in your heart is what God sees. I know the rest of us see a wonderful person!:)

These are the opinions of the author!

Kim it sounds like you feel confused, but you have always been a kind, loving caring person on PT, I have never known you to be anything else, you have your faith, let that guide you and continue to be just who you are, personally I would not like to see you change one little bit, you are often a person I greatly admire here.

I am not sure which debate you are referring to, but I have my ideas, if it is the one I am thinking of, I too get dismayed, and feel so much for the other people here who are not considered the norm, if that is how one likes to phrase it, sometimes I just think these threads would be better not even started , I just wonder why they ever are, I mean the person starting them must know this is going to hurt someone.,best just not to even go there.

Chin up girl, and don't feel bad.:)

I'm going to PM you, but want to show my support of your post here as well. :)

I want to say that out of the many people I've come into contact, you are DEFINITELY someone I see Jesus in. Kim, you always put others before youself...I've never seen otherwise.

You keep on being who you are and believing what you feel is right. You don't need ANYONE else on this earth telling you what's right, wrong or otherwise. All that matters is your personal relationship with God.

Love,
Kelly :)

Don't be to hard on yourself, Kim. I know we all have different upbringings and perspectives. (((hugs)))

The whole debate made me think of the story in John chaper 8 about the adultress. The Pharisees brought her to Jesus, expecting him to punish her. Instead when they continued asking him to punish her he said "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

I don't think that sexual preference is our business. It isn't our place to judge and decide what sin is worse then the other.

There is another story, I can't remember it all but it's in John also about an adultress (or prostitute) that He shows compassion and love to. He doesn't lecture and shun people for their choices, so why should we?

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Originally posted by NoahsMommy
All that matters is your personal relationship with God.

Love,
Kelly :)

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I agree. We all need to respectfully agree to disagree. We all feel strongly about our opinions; we shouldn't disrespect eachother's beliefs.

I want to thank each one of you who took the time and consideration to post a response to this thread. I just wanted to share how I have been feeling, and hopefully get across my deepest convictions. I pray that Laura and any other dear friend that I have hurt, can find it in their hearts to forgive me of anything hurtful I may have said.

Love you all,
Kim

Kim, I wish you wouldn’t let this upset you so. :( It does sound a bit as if you’re questioning whether your beliefs are your own or not. I went through this very thing a while back. I finally admitted that I just believed what my family believed because it was “our way”. I’ve decided that I know what I believe, and right or wrong, I’ve formed my own views/feelings/impressions on religion and God. Pet Talkers really helped me work out those impressions by questioning why I felt a certain way, or why I believed what I said I did. No one changed my mind, but only helped me in that I gained the courage to put my feelers out and form and opinion. It’s ironic that my husband had been feeling the very same way for a LONG time, but was afraid to say anything to me for fear that I would criticize him. We discovered that we have identical views on God, the Bible, and what a relationship with God should be like (for us). No one in either of our families understands, but it feels right for us.

If you're comfortable doing it, put the feelers out and see. You may find out that you do believe in what you were taught. You might find out that you don’t. Either way, you’re more educated and more enlightened on the others viewpoints, and that’s never a bad thing.

Please don’t be hurt or depressed. Just be you. As long as we’re all civil, any debate can be healthy. I think most of this stayed healthy, with a couple of exceptions on both sides.

{{{{{{Hugs}}}}}}

You know, I was just thinking about how sad it is that all of us log hundreds (thousands... maybe millions???) of hours here and end up attacking each other all day long. I've been attacked, and done a little attacking myself.


Why? Why do we do this? This is a fun site! I thank Karen and Paul soooo much for the time they put into making this place the great place that it is.



Imagine how much better it could be if we didn't hurt each other, for the sake of being right, being smart, or being dumb...

Okay, so I'm getting cheesy (anyone else hear John Lennon singing in the background?) But I think you get my point. I just wish we all could give everyone else the benefit of the doubt more often.

Thank you for your input, Micki and Dev!;)

I was raised in a strong religions family all my life. I remember a time, my grandmother found out we missed church one day. She chased my brother and I around with a broom, calling us sinner's.
I though, how wrong that was, Does it matter that much to God that we missed one Sunday as long as our hearts are with him.

As I got older, for reason I wont get into, I walked away from the church, but never God. I have come to believe that if your heart is true, kind and loving that's all that God truly ask out of anyone. If I worship him in the house of the lord or in my back yard, the only thing that matters is that I do.

We all have sinned at one point or another, it is what makes us human. I have cussed God for taking so many loved ones away from me, but in the same breath thanked him for bringing them into my life. I believe he understands and forgives me, for he made us human, faults and all.

I believe that the only question that matters is "DO WE BELIEVE?" As long as that answer is yes, we are OK in the eyes of God.

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He is loving, forgiving, and compassionate. He would never inflict harm or malice or pain on another of His children. When we bring up any sort of touchy subject, someone always ends up a victim, and leaves wounded and suffering. I hurt today for dear Laura, and any others who may have different lifestyles than the so-called "norm".

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I read this one statement of yours and I thought, that makes you a christian. Just the fact that you hurt for those that got hurt. Leave out the fact that you might have caused some hurt, your only human. we all have hurt someone with our words/ideas/belifes at some time. But that you feel for thier hurt, says so much about you. You are a good person, we all see it and God sees it.

I've tried to believe and follow a religion so many times. I've tried to make sense of the bible, to make sense of what they said in Church and Youth Group... but couldn't.

I've decided that for now, although I'm young and it could possibly change (?) that i'm not going to try and make sense out of religions, or have my beliefs based around a religion. But to form my own beliefs on what I witness in today's world... and maybe one day a religion will "find" me.

I find it interesting to learn about other religions and beliefs, ask questions, and so forth to see if *maybe* that's the one for me.

Ask Amy, her mother and I bored her by talking about their religion. ;)


Kim, I hope you don't mind me posting in this thread. If you do, just ask me to delete my post and I will.

Again, thank you for the kind and loving words ... and for sharing your most sincere feelings. Kay, I don't mind that you posted, but I just don't want this thread to take on a whole new life of its own. I thank you all for caring enough to respond and offer your sincerity .... but I hope that this thread will soon fade away!;) I feel somewhat better having gotten my feelings off of my chest, but I will always regret having hurt ones that did not deserve to be.

Most appreciatively,
Kim;)

I may not share your beliefs...but I can tell you that what it most important is what is in your heart. My uncle...a very conservative Christian...has never forgiven me for being a witch....it's hard for me to understand because I still love him as I always have. Our relationship is strained though, because he is forever lecturing me and giving me books to read to "help" me find "my" way.

How is a person supposed to find their OWN way by means of another person? Your father's behavior appalls me, and I hope he finds it in his heart to show the people he loves how he feels, even if he feels they are condemned because of the life THEY CHOSE to lead. *hug*

Sorry to continue a thread you want to fade away. ;)