Tigris, again!!!

The morning of the New year, Tigris started again to visist the litterbox more often. We saw the emergency vet and she gave another antibiotics injection hoping it would start things again.

This time it didn't work as well as last week but anyway Tigris will go to the vet this morning and she'll X-ray his little bladder:( :(

Although he spent many hours during the night sleeping on the bed, he is on the run since 6 a.m. and has seen the litterbox at least 20 times since then. 9.30 he has his appointment.

Keep the paws crossed out there.:(

They took a urine sample and it looked really bad. Blood in it, proteines in it. Siegmar talked to the vet and so I don't have answers to all my questions.

She'll keep him overnight and check with contrast stuff (no idea how it's called in English). It is a FLUTD but we all know that can be many things. Poor boy is catheterized and now I'm starting to get worried. I am so sorry for him in pain and having to stay there.

I am reading and reading and reading to be able to ask my questions tomorrow. We can pick him up at 10 in the morning.

Please send your thoughts to him. And some to me.:(

BTW: she couldn't find crystals!

Oh poor Tigris. :( I hope this second dose of antibiotics will work better. He is now in good hands and I'm sure the vet will find the right treatment. The vet will also give him lots of water, so you'll get him back not dehydrated and he'll feel a lot better. :) You will most likely be asked to give him diet food, I'm sure he'll like it.

Here are some links:

http://www.lbah.com/Feline/flutd.htm

http://www.belfield.com/article4.html

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/the_...ucted_cat.html

Get better soon, Tigris - we're sending you lots of healing vibes and kisses - and Barbara, try not to worry too much, he'll be OK soon. :)

This is one of the old threads about Fister's problems - and you may want to look for Boots' too.

http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...ghlight=fister

Hugs and purrs from us all.

One link leading to another I spent my office morning by getting more information. I found the following PPT presentation very good because it is so structured.

http://www.agri.huji.ac.il/~hylton/r...%20Disease.ppt

Tigris seems to have the so called iFLUTD. I didn't know that 53,8% of the cats with FLUTD have that version of which the cause is not known. Only 1-3% have a bacteria UTI.

Looks as if the vet tried to exclude all the other reasons (for the 46,2% non iFLUTD) which is urethral plug (small stones and tissue in the urethra), urolithiasis (crystals), bacterial UTI, or malformations of the urethra.

The problem is that many recipes like diet food (they say that most foods these days are already formulated in a way that they acidify the urine- plus these foods that prevent struvite crystals can bring oxalate crystals) or even the plumbing surgery Boots and Fister had will not work in a case like that.

He may have to get cortisone to get rid of it (which is what my vet was talking about) and in the future it is checking all the time for pea biscuits and behavior.:(

Sorry for boring you all with these details but I simply have to understand what's happening- it leaves me feeling a little more in control:(

Ohhhhh, my poor dear Tigris :( :( :(

I am so sorry to hear Tigris has problems again :( . I will keep my fingers crossed, Juni and Pichu their paws and tails.

I will check all these threads to find out more.

Barbara, I know how it feels when you know YOU cannot control the situation and do more for your cat. I'm sure he's in good hands and the vet will help him.

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear this news, Barbara. I was so hoping for a good report for the new year.

Good thoughts and prayers going out for Tigris and you, and big {{{hugs}}} for you.

C'mon Tigris, you can fight this nasty thing! Please get better soon so your meowmy, daddy and all of PT don't have to worry about you so.

Poor Tigris.

I've read your post a couple of times to try to understand but are you saying that they vet doesn't know what caused it (ruled out all the other causes) and that the surgery and diet won't help, just a cortisone shot and watching him is all you can do?

Gee, that doesn't offer a whole lot of help, does it? I'm the type who likes nice, neat solutions to take care of things.

Poor boy, please give him scritchies for me and tell him that Jazz sends headbumpies and kitty kisses. We hope he feels better soon.

Oh Barbara, I'm so sorry to hear that Tigris isn't feeling well.
Sending hugs to you and get well wishes to Tigris!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by jazzcat


I've read your post a couple of times to try to understand but are you saying that they vet doesn't know what caused it (ruled out all the other causes) and that the surgery and diet won't help, just a cortisone shot and watching him is all you can do?

Gee, that doesn't offer a whole lot of help, does it? I'm the type who likes nice, neat solutions to take care of things.

---

Exactly: plus: In 53,8% of the cases there isn't a reason a vet can find. There is still a lot of room for research in cat UT diseases:(

Me too: I want to find a cause and then fix it. :(

Barbara....I am so sorry. I've just seen this.....poor, poor Tigris and poor you and Siegmar. I will send all the positive energy I can.....

Oh, Barbara, I am sorry Tigris has to be in the vets overnight. It's horrible to leave them there isn't it? I hope they can help him. Lots of positive vibes coming for you and Siegmar too.


The girls send headbumpies and purrs to their friend Tigris!

How sad and frustrating all at the same time. :( Prayers to you and to Tigris that even without a proper cure/diagnosis that ALL can become normal for him again, REAL soon.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbara

Sorry for boring you all with these details but I simply have to understand what's happening- it leaves me feeling a little more in control:(

---

Barbara, it isn't boring at all. What you learn also helps us too.
I am so sorry that Tigris is suffering with this problem.:( I do
hope the shot helps him throw off any infection & he gets better
soon.

Oh, I had been hoping so much that Tigris was all better. My thoughts are with you, Barbara, as you try to get your boy healthy. Get well soon, Tigris!

Andrea

You're a good mom, Barbara, and I'm glad you noticed that he was having a problem. Poor Tigris. :( He will remain in my prayers. I hope you will get a conclusive and good report in the morning.

Butter sends kisses to you. :)

Logan

Barbara, I am so sorry to hear of Tigris' problems. :( I hope and pray that the vet can find some means of treating it, so that he doesn't have to suffer through this for long, and so that YOU don't have to worry about him! (((BIG HUGS))) and prayers for you, Tigris and Siegmar!;)

Kim

Barbara, I'm so sorry to hear that Tigris is sick again.:( I know that this is a terrible disease because a lot of the time no one knows why the cats get sick.
Storm's tests were inconclusive the first time and he had a bad bacterial infection the second time and also scar tissue. After his surgery the surgeon said that his urethra was very small so it was only a matter of time before he had problems. I'm still feeding all of my furkids the special prescription food just to be on the safe side. So far so good.
I wonder if your vet can either x-ray or do an ultrasound on Tigris's urethra to find out if it's normal in size. Prayers and positive thoughts are being sent your way. Please take care. {{{HUGS}}}

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbara


The problem is that many recipes like diet food (they say that most foods these days are already formulated in a way that they acidify the urine- plus these foods that prevent struvite crystals can bring oxalate crystals) or even the plumbing surgery Boots and Fister had will not work in a case like that.

---

The food that I'm currently feeding my furkids is Royal Canin S/O formula in both wet and dry. It's the only food that I know of that will prevent both struvite and oxalate crystals. Good luck.:)

I simply cannot tell you what I all dreamt this night but it showed I was not in an easy mood.

This morning as soon as we opened the vet's exterior door we heard our Tigris and so knew he was alive;)

Ok: the medicinal details.
It is called iFLUTD. Idiopathic Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease.
His kidneys are ok. Well, a little high in urea but nothing to be really concerned.

He has definitely no stones.

He has a bacterial infection but the vet thinks it's a secondary one.

His urethra is chronically inflammed, swollen and there is scar tissue. Poor boy must have been in pain. The reason for this is not known (which is what "idiopathic" means).

Now there are two options:

1) the conservative option:
The bacterial infection is treated by antibiotics.
The inflammation of the urethra is treated by prednisolone.

This is what we start doing. He'll have to take the prednisolone for about 2 weeks time (and it will be funny 2 weeks regarding the fact that Tigris doesn't eat most of the stuff other cats die for
:( ). The vet says she knows some cats who work rather well over the years with maybe one or 2 times prednisolone per year.

Of course it is essential that the bladder is flushed. Having no stones, neither struvite nor oxalate, Tigris may have his veggie juice which is the only beverage he really is craving;) She says the pred makes him hungry and thirsty- so that may help.

Then it's no more dry food. Wet food to help his intake of water.

2) surgery
Of course I asked about the perineal urethrostomy (which is -am I right?- what Fister, Boots, Mishi and Storm had.

To my vet's opinion this would be the last resort. The urethra is a block against bacteria coming from the exterior and so can prevent UTIs. My vet says that many cats with urethrostomy suffer from UTIs and need antibiotics often.

I said I knew some who had it and seemed to get along rather well.

Now my question: Randi, Phred, Tracey:

Can you tell me what your vet said about the risks of the surgery.

I agree with my vet that we will first try to control it the way I described but I'd like to know more about the plumbing surgery.

Isn't it funny that very manly cats seem to have more problems. I would have put my bet on Filou for being prone to diseases but as I behave like an eagle now when one of the boys goes to the box, I can say that he p...s like a waterfall.

BTW: Filou was a velcro kitty yesterday and this morning. I think he was saying: Do you keep me when I am very good;) :rolleyes:

I am happy I have my big boy back. Now I hope we can get him to get better.

Thanks for the update. Best of luck with the medication. Hopefully it will work and no more talk of surgery. Kisses to tigris.

Barbara, we have never dealt with this, but you sure do have good resources right here at Pet Talk, don't you?

Please give Tigris a gentle hug from me. I hope he will be feeling better soon. Glad Filou is doing well.....velcro kitties are fun, aren't they? :)

Barbara, I can imagine Tigris is a velcro kitty now, he must be SO happy to be home again. :)

Fister had struvite crystals and blocked up 2-4 months after the first flushing, but since Tigris had an infection, I don't know what to say. I hope that the Prednisolone will help him get rid of that infection! Fister had Prednisolone too, for 10 days, I don't quite remember why. I do remember his urine test was sterile - my vet said that was not good.

Prednisolone will make him put on weight, so don't worry if he gets a bit plumb during taking these. ;) Can you get them down his throat? :eek:

The operation we decided on, because he was prone to block up again and thought, we may as well avoid further flushing and catheterisation. The vet said he'll still form crystals, but won't block up. He had Hills S/D for at least 6 months before all this, but he still had problems. He's now on C/D - and occasionally on W/D with less fat.

I think you already have this link: ? http://www.lbah.com/Feline/flutd.htm#sx

I hope you find the right solution for him! I'll try to find more info on this and send to you.

We're sending kisses, scritchies and purrs to your wonderful boy.

Hugs to you and Siegmar.

Poor Tigris! I hope he feels better.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Barbara
[B]The morning of the New year, Tigris

Hi Barbara,

I just read about Tigris this morning. Poor little guy....I'm so sorry he's not well. I went out to a web site I had visited about a year and a half ago when Buddy was suspected of having cardiomyopathy, and remembered reading about iFLUDT, a link at the same site. Here is the site. I think you will find it very incouraging. Read the last line of the third paragraph under the heading "Idiopathic Lower Urinary Tract Disease". I hope this is so true for your Tigris!!! My prayers are with you both.

Linda

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resou...e/urinary.html

I have read all the thread about Boots' surgery and it looks as if he had an infection plus crystals. He got antibiotics against the infection from beginning of August until end September.

Fister's urine being sterile means he had no primary UTI (1-3% of the cats with FLUTD have one). But he had crystals (20% of all cats with FLUTD have them). So he needed no antibiotics then.

Tigris has no crystals and a secondary UTI for which he gets the antibiotics.

The bad thing is the chronically inflammated urethra. This can be kept down by the pred.

What I would like to know is:
Did Fister or Boots have any problems like an UTI after the surgery?

Did your vet inform you about the risk of getting more UTIs once the surgery is done.?

Thank you Linda, for the link. That's exactly what it is- and I also hope it is over once we get it sorted out.

I'm glad to hear you at least know what the problem is, Barbara. That's half the battle. And it sounds like you're really doing plenty of research to find out just what all your options are. I sure hope it can be controlled with the antibiotics and pred, but at least you'll have all the information you can get about the surgery before having to make that decision.

I'm so glad Tigris is home again. Sounds like he wasn't too happy about having to spend the night away from home. {{{hugs}}} to you and gentle skritchies to that big Tigris boy.

Barbara, I sure hope that the meds will help Tigris so you won't even have to think about surgery. Yes, everyone I spoke with informed me about the risks of both Cirrus and Storm developing UTI infections after their operations. This is another reason why I'm keeping them on their special diet. So far so good. Cirrus had his operation last Feb. so it's almost been a year and he's doing very well.:)
In Storm's case he had to have surgery because of scar tissue and he became blocked twice. The scar tissue prevented him from being able to be catheterized. His surgeon told me that she's seen many cats that have been catheterized so many times that they develop very bad scar tissue. Then when they finally have the surgery, the scar tissue grows back and they become blocked again.:eek: In Storm's case this shouldn't happen because we caught it early.

Tigris,please be a good kitty and take all of your meds and get well soon.:)

Come on big boy.......take your meds......

Barbara please forgive me for not seeing this sooner! I am horrible about checking all of PT's boards.

I'm so sorry that Tigis and you have been through so much. It sounds like you are very informed and will do the best for him. This thread is so informative!
Please know that I'm praying for Tigris and I hope the meds take care of everything.

My post disappeared into thin air, so I'll try again.

After Fister had the operation, there has been no problems. :) I do hope it won't be neccesary for Tigris to be operated though. Hopefully the medicine will help clear it up and he can get back to normal. :)

It's tough to see them suffer. Have you got any painkillers for him? Fister had some called Romefen, they seemed to help a lot.
He also had Prednisolone for 10 days and put on weight, so don't panic if Tigris does too. ;)

More kisses and scrithies to your wonderful boy - and hugs to you and Siegmar.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Barbara

He has definitely no stones.

His urethra is chronically inflammed, swollen,
and there is scar tissue.

Of course it is essential that the bladder is flushed.
Having no stones, neither struvite nor oxalate,
Tigris may have his veggie juice ;)

2) surgery
Of course I asked about the perineal urethrostomy.
To my vet's opinion this would be the last resort.

Now my question: Randi, Phred, Tracey:

Can you tell me what your vet said about the risks of the surgery.

I agree with my vet that we will first try to control it the way I described but I'd like to know more about the plumbing surgery.

---

I haven't been *ignorin* :( Tigris' Tail -
His Mom and I have been trading PM's. ;)

Seems like Tigris' Vet has a GOOD handle on HIS problem -
which IS different than the problems Boots, Fister, et all were
disgnosed with! The OTHER PT Kittys were confirmed to be
producing SOLIDS in their urine (stones, crystals, or sand-like "stuff")
that formed physical BLOCKAGES and prevented the normal flow
of urine - and the reduced flows promoted the UTIs.

There ARE dietary and medicinal treatments that SOMETIMES prevent
the the formation of the solids - but most Vets agree that
determining just WHAT combination of diet & meds works for each cat
may be a Lengthy Process of trial & error...
MEANWHILE the Cat Keeps "pluggin up" and requires frequent Catherizations
to prevent a sudden and life-threatening urinary blockage. :(

When a cat *IS* producing solids in the urine and has serious
blockages, the Current Thinking of many Vets is that it's
Kinder to the Cat to solve the BLOCKAGE problem with Sir Jury.

Whatever risks there are of infections coming "in through the back door"
are offset by the elimination of almost quaranteed future blockages
from the solids.

Since Tigris is NOT producing those "pesky" solids in his urine...
it makes good sense to try and solve his Inflamed Urethra problem
withOUT resorting to surgery.

GOOD LUCK to Tigris and his White Coat!! ;)

Now, About "Pillin da Kat" ...
Y'all know I swear by the Pill Shotter, Popper, or Gun! :D
Here's a REprint of my Kat Pillin Reference Materials >>>

Firstly ~
NO Self-Respektin KAT will "knowlingly" Consume Medications -
when "hidden" in treats or food -
no matter HOW *tastey* the treat or food may be! :p

Here's Dad's Oft-Repeated "How to Pill da Kat" article >>

Here's a good article on How to PILL da Kat ~
with minimal loss of blood...

How to PILL the Kat article

And we'll repeat *our* method ~
Get youselves a Pill Shooter!

They are *cheap* - less than $5.00 US;
should be availabe in any Pet Store - US and elsewhere ~
cause little *stress* to either Kitty OR the Human;
almost Guarantee a successful *pilling* on the first *shot* :p

Here's a poor picture of ours - all soft plastic and made by
"Four Paws".

Pix - "Four Paws Pill Dispenser"

Dad *loves* it; Boots tolerates it;
and there hasn't been a lost or spit-out pill in years! :cool:

Y'all really Otta Get One!!

WHERE to get a Pill Shooter?
Almost ALL Pet Shops sell them...
Usually less than $5.00 gets you a reasonably good Plastic one.

Your VET may have a loaner; but you might as well buy your own.
And you do NOT need a fancy Chrome-Plated "Vet model" your Vet
may offer to :eek: SELL you!
The Pet Shop plastic "cheepie" works just as well!

To get meds on-board over the weekend - if the
"Using your Fingers" method in the article above doesn't work ~

Get a STRAW - plain ole Drinking Straw - semi-large diameter
(thick milk-shake size)...

Insert pill in one end...
Take deep breath and secure Kat...
Insert Opposite end in your mouth...

Open Kat's mouth with methods from above articles...
Insert KAT End of straw over Kat tongue at back of throat...

*BLOW* through YOUR end of straw -
NOTE! Important! **BLOW** (Do NOT *:eek: *suck*!!)

"Verify" Pill came OUT (in KAT) -
before re-inserting straw in your milk-shake!

/s/ Phred :D
.

Sorry for the delay in this!


Tigris! Hope you are feeling MUCH better! Don't scare your mommy & daddy like that!

Hope things are going better for you & Siegmar, Barbara!!

We keep our fingers and paws crossed here. Any news? Is Tigris home yet?

Barbara,
I hope sweet Tigris is home soon and that the pred works well. Poor things, it sounds so uncomfortable and I'm sure you're worried. :(

Good luck with the new meds and only wet food. Kisses, sweet boy!

Luv, Kelly (& Micah)

I am so glad to hear that Tigris is home with his parents and his brother. I hope that your vet and you can work out a good solution for your sweet boy.

Tigris, keep drinking your veggie juice and eating all of your wet food. I hope you feel better soon!

Andrea

Tigris was very un-quiet when he came home yesterday morning. It is as if he had to check again all of the places before he was sure everything was ok.

THen he calmed down and was sooooo cuddly- had to catch up with all the snuggles he missed.

Now this morning it was pilling time:eek:

The snuggly boy from the night showed us that he is a wild cat with no confidence in mankind:mad:

Didn't eat his pills in wet food (make a slot in a piece of wet food and put the pill in- worked well with Filou who is also not easy). Didn't eat his pill in Gimpet. Didn't eat his pill in liver pate.

Finally his dad grabbed him, nailed him down and forced pill plus liver pate down:( :eek:

When I left for work, Tigris was sitting under the bed saying he knew he could never trust humans:( :mad:

Curious to see how this goes.

On a lighter note: Tigris made two standard size pee biscuits.

Phred: I will print the pill shooter story (for Siegmar whose job it is as there is physical force involved- my job is to comfort him ;))and we will try to get one. Every trick is worth a try. The vet was sceptical. She knows our Tigris for quite some time and says he seems to have lots of wild cat instinct.

Oh Barb and Siegmar. My thoughts are with you. Trying to pill a cat can sometimes takes some major adjustments for everyone.

Hint 1 from Sas: Put the pill in your pocket and act as though nothing is up, life is usual. Then sit down and do your regular thing.....reading...writing....etc. and when Tigis comes near, nab him, and force the pill down his throat.

Hint 2: Did I give you some pillpockets when you visited? My cats hate them, so they didn't and won't work for me and my cats!

Hint 3: Mash the pill up and try to hide it in the food?! This never works for me either. My cats can smell it.

I found that by putting the pill in my pocket, I would be ready for action at any time. Miley (the usual pill/kitty) also could tell the noise from the pill envelope/bottle and would take off running. I could fool here while sitting and kitting or eating etc. ...... She never mistrusted me when MY behavior was usual, just when I was stalking her to pill her!

It sounds as though you have your work cut out for you.

Another alternative would be to confine him in a small room where he cannot hide. It sounds awful to confine a kitty - but then he could be caught to administer the medicine.

Keep us posted!

Love and warm fuzzy headbumpies to Tigris! and Barb and Siegmar and Filou too!

Sas, Miley girl, Juni Get Down, Chloe, Lucy, Cinnamon and Denver

Having met Tigris, I can imagine it could be quite a task to pill him. I remember how nervous I was the first time I had to give Fister pills. :eek: I tried the above methods, but none worked. They're smart enough to smell the pills inside of a treat. I once crushed a pill and divided it up inside of 5-6 shrimps - he took the first one ....

What did work, was to "catch" him by surprize when he was sitting very relaxed looking out of the window. I simply went up to him as if to cuddle (has to be from behind, so you can put your arms around him!), opened his mouth from one side and stroking his chest with my other hand - down the throat it went. :) You could also try while he's sleeping. The important part is not to appear nervous, they will immediately sense it!

Once the pill is inside the mouth, stroke his chest to make him swallow!!

With cats, I've learned a few things, force won't work, and patience is essential!

Best of luck!! :)

Give him headbumpies and kisses from us.

As Pichu's getting more and more like Tigris in size, I understand how hard it is to pill Tigris. Next time, probably, I will mash his pills, he found a way to spit them out when I try to put it in his throat.

Headbumpies from Pichu to Tigris and eyekisses from Juni.

Sounds like you had quite a morning, Barbara. ;) :( :) All the methods mentioned above by SAS that didn't work for her, also didn't work for me. The only one that has worked consistently is the open up and shove it in method. Doesn't sound that pleasant, but it's short and sweet and over before they know it, and when followed immediately by treats, the anticipation of the treat soon overcomes the dread of the pilling. Hopefully you can find a pill shooter thingy and it works well, and more importantly, hopefully Tigris realizes that his humans aren't out to hurt him, but on the contrary are doing everything they can to make him feel better.

Good luck and keep us updated with progress reports. :)