How you value your life.....a discussion

I just got back from a really nice Christmas dinner with my family. Everything was humming along just fine until my niece asked me a question. She's 22 and has travelled the globe and is very up on current events and very intelligent. We were talking about the difference between Pet Parents and Pet Owners. (They have two cats BTW)

She said "If you had a choice of having a broken leg or seeing one of your pets die, which would you choose?"

I replied that it's an unfair question because no one would ever be in a situation that they would have a choice. She rephrased the question.

"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?" Without hesitation I said "Absolutely!"

She then said "So your pet's life is worth more than yours?" I said that our lives were just as important but I would without a doubt choose to risk death in order to save the life of one of my pets. She said she didn't understand that logic.

When I told her that Max and Speckles were my children, she again said she just didn't understand.

Folks....this is why I don't talk about my relationship with my pets to anyone except you. I value my life but not as much as I value the lives of my pets. Am I wrong??:confused:

No, you are not wrong. Everyone in life has different passions. You and I are passionate about our animals, and their worth :)

I did put Bassett's life before mine. I had no money and I basically ate rice or Kraft Dinner for a month in order to make her ok, and I would do it again in a heartbeat. I would do it for Tilly and Nutmeg too. I would live in my car, if I had to.

I don't question my passion, and I would never question yours. Don't feel bad.. if you had to break your leg to save your cat, you know I would be there in a heartbeat to take care of YOU both! :)

I honestly would do the same thing Slick. About the only thing I wouldn't do is put my skinkids behind my pets *Just a value thing with me* Then again Im the type of person who would take my pets into concideration when making any type of dicision. If an action is going to damage both of us I will usually take actions that is the least harmful (preferably no harm at all will come to my pet) for my pet, even if it bites me in the butt later! *I almost lost my housing because I refused to give a dog up. She is now my moms pup and is doing really well lol*

I love my cats (and my other critters too). I am thier provider and as such I have a great responseability to them. I feel like I have entered a contract with them, and I wouldn't ever want to let them down.

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Originally posted by slick

"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?" Without hesitation I said "Absolutely!"

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Without hesitation!

One evening we were walking the dogs, and our neighbor's have a small grey dog that they never have on a leash...she just runs around in the yard. As we were wlaking by, she ran into the street to come visit our dogs. A car came speeding down the street. Her mom started screaming for her to come, and she just stood in the middle. I stood in the middle of the road
1. because she was so small the driver could easily not see her 2. because I would rather be hit then witness an animal being hit.
This wasn't my pet, just a dog that I know by name only. I can't say I valued her life more then my own, but certainly not any less.

My dogs are may babies and there isn't anything I wouldn't do for them. That is the difference imo between pet parents, pet lovers, true pet people, and people who merely have pets.

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"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?"

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I am attempting to picture this event inside my head, and I must honestly say that I might not. (I am REALLY afraid of pain). But then again, the REAL situation might feel differently at the time.

My pets are very important to me. I think of their well-being by constant vet care, the right foods, and enough comforts for them to be happy. I love them unconditionally (even when they are bad) and I can't ever picture myself voluntarily ever giving one of them up. I spend countless dollars on them even before I buy the new winter coat that I desperately need, but would I go into serious debt for them? ......probably not.

Does this make me a pet owner instead of a pet parent? I don't know. All I know is that sometimes you need to be realistic and not optimistic.

But slick, you are NOT wrong! And I admire people who value their animals 100% over themselves. Maybe I am just not that good of a person.

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"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?" Without hesitation I said "Absolutely!"

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Most definitly! My Dogs are my life without them i would not be here so i owe it to them and would protect them in any situation.

Slick i dont think you are wrong {{Hugs}}.

DJF said it best, I have a contract with my furkids and I've never broken a contract, or my word. They have saved me many times, I would not hesitate.. nor have I.. to save them.

Your niece obviously doesn't know animal love. I would risk my life also. They are worth that and so much more. I feel bad for your niece because she is really missing out on something special.

I would risk my life for Ally and Connor - no question. But DJF said it best......

I have gone into debt for Cubby, I had to barrow money that I didn't have and I knew I wouldn't be able to pay it back for a while because of his food and vet treatment. I know it didn't cost that much but at the time it cost us alot more than what we had. Thank god I was working and could get food at my work. I would bring food home for hubby that week just so we could get by. I love Cubby more than anything in this world. Same with Gracie. Although Gracie is a new comer to the house hold, she is still loved more than anything.

Hubby always told me that if he has to spend more than 500$ on a *CAT* he would just have to put it to sleep. His values are changing more and more every day. He now believes that Cubby deserves the best life we can give him. I explained to him that if he made me choose between him and Cubby I would take Cubby. Cubby wouldn't be the one to make me choose, he wouldn't understand what's going on if I had to give him up. I am the only mother he knows. He is my child, I tell him that his Grandma is going to come see him. Along with Gracie. They know we love them.

Gracie is a daddy's girl so much so, that Corey slept in the living room on an air bed last night just so Gracie didn't have to sleep in her cage on Christmas. Everyone in my family knows my pets are my children. All of my friends know they are my children. If any one talks bad about them I take it very personal. It's like telling me that I failed as a mother because they don't like my cat because he has an attitude or what ever it may be that they are complaining about. I refuse to lock my pets up when people come over that don't like them. That gives me even more reason to leave them out of their cage or room. If you don't like my cat or my dog then stay the hell out of my house.

If someone is allergic to my cat then yes he does go into the bedroom. As soon as they leave he gets let out and he gets treats for being such a good boy. I feed my animals before I buy food for my self. We are here to protect them and give them everything they need and want. Who is to judge how much we spend on our animals? I am not here to judge and no else is either. That is God's job to judge us!

Sorry this is so long. I am a true animal lover and I can't live with out them. :( :o

I think I'd run out in front of a moving car for any pet - mine or not. Just as I'd run to save any human. I think its a trait commonly known as compassion for other living creatures.

I agree with you and have a hard time seeing your neice's side. In an event such as seeing a car barreling down on another life, you react instinctively... to save their life without considering the impact on yours. Just think that if you stood there and did nothing, and then stood there watching the animal (or human) being crushed to death. THAT would be worse for me than suffering a broken leg. My leg would heal, but the squished life wouldn't. There's no question what I'd do!

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My leg would heal, but the squished life wouldn't. There's no question what I'd do!

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Thats how i look at it aswell Kim ;).

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Originally posted by jenluckenbach
I am attempting to picture this event inside my head, and I must honestly say that I might not. (I am REALLY afraid of pain). But then again, the REAL situation might feel differently at the time.

My pets are very important to me. I think of their well-being by constant vet care, the right foods, and enough comforts for them to be happy. I love them unconditionally (even when they are bad) and I can't ever picture myself voluntarily ever giving one of them up. I spend countless dollars on them even before I buy the new winter coat that I desperately need, but would I go into serious debt for them? ......probably not.

Does this make me a pet owner instead of a pet parent? I don't know. All I know is that sometimes you need to be realistic and not optimistic.

But slick, you are NOT wrong! And I admire people who value their animals 100% over themselves. Maybe I am just not that good of a person.

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I agree with this. I do love my pets very much, and have made many, many sacrifices for their well-being. But would I die for them? No, I would not. I would not leave my child an orphan and my family distraught to save the life of one of my pets.

Being 22 you have a different view of life.


you stop asking questions like that when you get to 25.








;)

Slick, without hesitation, I would run in the street to save any of my kitties. My logic is that the driver probably would not be able to see my cat, but they would see me..........waving, screaming etc. and hopefully slow down.

I feel sorry for your niece too.........I hope that some day she will have a bond with an animal and come to understand what you are talking about.

Richard, I don't think it has anything to do with age, but experience............let's get together and get that girl a pet:D

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Originally posted by gini


Richard, I don't think it has anything to do with age, but experience............let's get together and get that girl a pet:D

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And being 28 makes you an expert???:D

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Don't feel bad.. if you had to break your leg to save your cat, you know I would be there in a heartbeat to take care of YOU both!

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Nomi...you just know that I would do the same for you. {{{HUGS}}}

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Maybe I am just not that good of a person.

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Jen, you just have to know that this is totally untrue. I, for one, know that if your place caught on fire, you'd be the first to run into the burning building to try to save the lives of your precious furbabies.....that is if you didn't get them all out first. I hate pain too, but wouldn't a Mother take a risk to save her child?

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Your niece obviously doesn't know animal love. I would risk my life also. They are worth that and so much more. I feel bad for your niece because she is really missing out on something special.

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Val, honestly, she really does know animal love. My two nieces grew up with dogs and cats and all furbabies were very spoiled. When she was younger she was different. It's just now she's in her twenties, somehow her outlook on life has changed, as it should be. However, she's becoming more opinionated and confrontational.

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But would I die for them? No, I would not. I would not leave my child an orphan and my family distraught to save the life of one of my pets.

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You see, that's where the controversy lies. I totally understand that logic TD and that's why I put this in the Dog House. So what does that make me?

Gini, they currently have two very, very spoiled kitties...brothers, Martini and Maverick. There is nothing that family wouldn't do for them. What really bothered me was my niece was actually getting angry over my statement that Max and Speckles were my children and I would do anything for them. She just couldn't understand why I would put their lives ahead of my own. Maybe it's just youth, like Richard says, but finally I realized I was knocking my head against a stone wall so I changed the subject. At our Thanksgiving dinner in October she really spoiled it in the end by trying to give us a lecture on why "ladies only" gyms were better because in a "co-ed" gym you are constantly a victim of sexual harrassment." Oh yes, and don't even get her started on women's oppression, unfair wages, etc. :rolleyes:

Last night I felt like telling her to smoke a reefer and chill out.....better yet "here's a stick of chewing gum..." :D

I'm a pet parent and proud of it.

I would most DEFINATELY give my life for my dog. She is my best friend, and she makes me so happy. I don't value my life, but I value hers, so its a no brainer for me.

I would absolutely risk my life to save an animal, while trying to be as smart about it as possible. Not much worry there with Miss Hoppy, as she just stays in the house 98% of the time, and any outdoor excursions are carefully supervised, and she's not one to dart out into the street anyway. Instinctually, as a human being, I would try to protect a child, an unaware adult, or an animal in danger. Maybe afterwards I'd consider what "could have" happened to me, but hey, there are good "people doctors" for just about everything!

Surely people don't mean to say that they don't value their
own lives. They must, for many reasons. Your pets depend on
you totally. I value my pets & would do anything humanly possible
to save them or keep them in good health.

If it came to running into a burning building to save them, I
am certain I would attempt it.

I would most certainly risk injury to myself to save a pet or prevent injury to the pet. I think the biggest reason for this is not that I value my life less, it's because if I get injured, I can understand why and what's happening because of my actions. Animals don't understand. This is one of the reasons Terry is such a wimp about animals. He just feels so bad for them because they don't understand what is happening to them. You can't sit down and tell a cat "Ok, kitty, you've broken your leg so now you need to wear a splint for a couple of weeks and then you'll be good as new." All they know is when they walk it hurts, and when you put the splint on they can walk but they've got this goofy uncomfortable thing on their leg, which they then try to remove.

I don't know if this totally explains what I mean, or explains it well enough, but hopefully you get the idea.

I'd have a broken leg or legs any day. I would NEVER want to watch my animals die in front of me. A broken leg can heal, but a broken heart cannot . :(

I agree with what everyone else has said. I would most definitely risk my life to save one (or all) of my pets.

I'm not sure if this is pertaining to the thread, but just yesterday I was discussing my trip to Utah with my aunt, who does not like dogs the way I do. She's grown attached to mine in a way, but she still doesn't *like* them and treat them as I do.

I was telling her how scared and how I cried when I had to leave Kiara at the Airport. She said that I was silly and asked why I would cry over such a thing?

I replied by asking her if she'd like to lock her child up in a cage, and stick them in a plane for 4 hours or so. She didn't answer my question but replied by saying that i've got to understand the value of a human compared to an animal. That totally pissed me off but I had to hold myself back in respect to my mother, as it's her sister. I told her that my dogs are like children to me, and I value them as I would value a human life, and as I would my human children *when/if I have them* and that I see them as a part of my family.

She said she understood but I really don't think she does.

My dogs mean the world to me.



Now, to the original subject of saving my dog's lives over mine.
I'm kind of in the middle here.
I'd never, ever, want my dogs or I to die or be injured.

But, I think either way, whichever one of us died, the other would suffer.

If my dogs died, I would never know what to do with myself.
If I died, my dogs would be so confused and lost, especially Kiara.
So, I really don't know, but I do know I probably wouldn't even think about dying if it came to rescueing my dogs, or someone elses. I'd just think of saving them, and hopefully coming out alive as well.

This discussion is a "no-brainer" for me. I have always said that I would sell my house/car/etc. to help my boys. It is almost a running joke with the Vet hospital. Andy is on some major meds that are very $$$$$. So when the Dr. said something about them and wanted to know if I wanted to continue the treatment (it has helped his allergies greatly) I of course looked at Andy and told him that he would have to pay for his own college because I was paying for his meds!

I had a room mate once who did not like pets/children etc. (she had a rough upbringing and this was her way of dealing) So when I came home from the Dayton area with this little puff ball of fur that grew into Andy, her first words were, "I'm telling you right now, I don't do Dog #$%#" Well I informed her that it was MY house she was living in and this was MY dog I was bringing into MY house and I didn't expect her to do a thing with him. Since then (about 7 years ago now) she has her own house and has 10 cats - most rescued btw. And she wouldn't give any of them up! It is amazing how we can all change our minds with just a bit if intervention.

The niece - she is young and stretching her legs....I was there at one time myself, and would just say things to get argumentitve so that I knew my opinion counted for something. She may never understand the ways of us here on PetTalk (I think we are all very much of one mind whether we all know it or not!) but she will grow up.

JMHO!

I would most likely run in front of the car without even thinking of the danger to me if one of my babies was in front of the car. And the broken leg question is an aboslute 100% yes as well. No matter how much I am a wimp about pain, I would MUCH MUCH rather have all my bones in my body broken at once than have to see one of my babies die :(

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Originally posted by slick
"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?" Without hesitation I said "Absolutely!"

She then said "So your pet's life is worth more than yours?"

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The answer to the first question like you and many others slick is "ABSOLUTELY!"

But the second question....I don't think that because I would run across the path of an oncoming car to save my pets life means it's life is worth more than mine.
I would just do anything possible to save them, as would most of us here.

"Would you risk your life and run across the path of an oncoming car to save your cat's life?"

I did last year.:) It was cold outside and it was late in the evening. The sun was almost gone and for some reason I went and looked out the front door. I saw this kitty laying in the rode soaking up heat from the pavement left by the afternoon sun. I was standing there thinking that this cat is going to get hit if it doesn't move. Out of the corner of my eye I see a car backing out of the driveway three houses down. This lady flies down our road. We live on a deadend and like I said she is only three houses away but hubby and I are always talking about how she seems to get from 0 to 50 before she even reaches our house. I knew she would not stop for the cat. I didn't stop and think but flew out the door barefoot in the freezing cold. I could hear her car gearing up as I was running down the sidewalk. I jumped right into the middle of the street and put my hand straight out like I was some kind of traffic cop. She slammed on the brakes (finally!) and I got the cat to move. She rolled her window down and was fanning herself saying "Oh my God I almost didn't see you!" If she didn't see a crazy woman running down the sidwalk and jumping barefoot into the middle of the street then she darn sure wouldn't have seen the poor cat! I don't even remember who the cat was and it wasn't mine!
I thought about it later and wondered if I had been stupid. I did feel rather proud of myself but wondered at the time if that was because I didn't get splattered all over the road.:rolleyes:
Would I do it a again? YES! I guess I will keep on doing it until the outcome is different and then I won't be able to anymore.;) I'm sure my tombstone would read something like "We knew her death would have something to do with a cat!":D

I think there is a difference between people who think of and live with thier furkids as though they ARE kids and people who have children and animals.

In the situation you are in Slick (same as mine), of course you love your kitties like you would children, they ARE your children. People that have children may not be able to fully grasp that we see them the same as we would human children.

My fuzzies would have me in front of that car....not that mine are ever allowed anywhere near a situation like that. But still, if I saw my cat in the road with a car coming towards it, you better believe I'd run out there to save him/her. They are my version of my children.

I value my life greatly. But they are also a HUGE part of my life, just as human children are a HUGE part of those who have them. I'm sure anyone with human children would run out to save them from an oncoming car too.

:)

I think for most of us here, the thought process isn't really there. If those who think they wouldn't run into the road to save animal, in the situation, might. I don't think the brain has time to process all the consequences...we see a life in danger, be it human, or animal, we are going to try to protect it. I don't know if I would same the same thing for humans in general, but knowing the value of lives to people here, I think it is the gut reaction.

And I guess I'm talking about cases where the driver of the car has time to see you and stop. I don't know if I would dive in at the last second, knowing I would be hit...but in the instant it happened, I might.

Forgive me, I didn't mean to abandon this thread. I have not been feeling well for the past two days and I'm in a really crappy mood. I'm just so saddened by what's taken place in Asia and there are other PT'ers I'm worried about as well....but life goes on, right?

I've been trying to rationalize my niece's behaviour but having a hard time doing it. She IS a very compassionate young lady and I just don't understand why this last year she's become so argumentative.

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she is young and stretching her legs....I was there at one time myself, and would just say things to get argumentative so that I knew my opinion counted for something.

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Snappy, you might have hit the nail on the head with this one. I really didn't think about that.

This thread is taking a different turn now. Steph and I used to be sooo close and shared EVERYTHING and now it's like she's a different person. She knows my love of animals. Am I upset because we are growing apart or am I upset because she questions my love for my animals?:confused:

I do believe that all Pet Talkers would do anything for our babies, skin and otherwise; that's why I feel comfortable talking about it here. At least you guys understand and big {{{HUGS}}} to all who've replied. I take your words to heart.:)

I tend to agree with Jen and Twisterdog on this one. I have and do spend great sums of money to ensure my animals are healthy and happy. I've gone so far as sending a cat to a different part of the country to get the treatment he needed. But would I die for them? Probably not. I'd do as much as I could to save them--financially or otherwise.

Statements about not being able to go on or live without them concern me. Realistically, most pet owners will outlive their pets. I look around my yard and know that I will mourn 29 deaths at some point. I expect 2005 to be a rough year around here--I have several elderly animals right now. Will it break my heart to loose them? Absolutely! But I will survive it and believe that someday I will see them again.

Loosing Hoodoo sucked! Parts of my heart are still broken and parts will always belong to him. I wear his ashes in a pendant every day, I still talk to him, still forget he's gone sometimes and call him to come get supper.

But I still love the others and still had room to love the new ones who have followed in Hoodoo's pawprints. I know that when these ones move on, that other little feline and canine lives will move in here..not to replace them, but to make their own place. There will always be another little soul who needs a safe place. I dont' think that diminishes my love for my current pets. Love is not diminished or divided when it is shared.

To avoid the pain of loss, I'd have to avoid the joy of knowing them now. That's not worth it.

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Originally posted by jenluckenbach
I am attempting to picture this event inside my head, and I must honestly say that I might not. (I am REALLY afraid of pain). But then again, the REAL situation might feel differently at the time.

My pets are very important to me. I think of their well-being by constant vet care, the right foods, and enough comforts for them to be happy. I love them unconditionally (even when they are bad) and I can't ever picture myself voluntarily ever giving one of them up. I spend countless dollars on them even before I buy the new winter coat that I desperately need, but would I go into serious debt for them? ......probably not.

Does this make me a pet owner instead of a pet parent? I don't know. All I know is that sometimes you need to be realistic and not optimistic.

But slick, you are NOT wrong! And I admire people who value their animals 100% over themselves. Maybe I am just not that good of a person.

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I think I feel the same way. I love them more then anything, I think about them all the time and I make many sacrifices for them. I hope that I never have to choose because I am not sure what my decision would be.

I do not think you are wrong, Slick. I admire you for being so dedicated to my animals.

The only time I find it strange is when people put their animals before their young children. I've known a few people that treat their pets better then their human babies. The young children get neglected while the pets are treated highly.

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Originally posted by Tonya
The only time I find it strange is when people put their animals before their young children. I've known a few people that treat their pets better then their human babies. The young children get neglected while the pets are treated highly.

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I find that extremely sad. :( The kids are their flesh and blood, something they suffered greatly to bring in the world (I'm going to assume its painful since i have never had one before ;) ), and yet they choose animals. It just saddens me. :(

If my dogs were in need of medical attention I'd give it to them, even if it were to cost thousands of dollars I'd do my very best to try and save them but I honestly don't think I'd die for them. Yes, it would be extremely hard to live without them. They've become my best friends (especially Tango) but I don't want to die nor do I want my dogs to die so I really don't know how to answer this question properly... With saying all of that I might die trying to save my dog because I would be in a state of panic and probably do anything I could to save my dog:)

Honestly I don't think there is any wrong or right answer here, I Love my furbabies as much as anyone, but I really cannot answer this simply by saying a definite yes, because I have children who need their mother, and my maternal instincts are stronger I think, however I really don't know what I would do if sadly I ever was faced with such an awful situation.

My life is important to me, I have a strong will to live, and I know there are others who rely on me and need me, ( my kids especially) so it really is not a simple yes or no, it is more a maybe.

Just because I feel this way does not mean I donot have a special bond with my furbabies, they are exceptionally important to me, I have so much love for them, sometimes it amazes me how much they mean to me, it is just the reasons above that would make me think, but knowing me in a situation as you described I would not think and would act accordingly, saving their lives and hopefully not ending mine.

And for the record I consider myself a Pet Parent.:)

These questions are always something that one can speculate on but not know the true answer to until it happens. I think it would come down to an instinctual reaction. Without a doubt all of us here care deeply for our pets, but I think it would come down to the basic human 'fight or flight' response depending on the situation. I can see myself running into my burning house to try to save my pets, but I think the instinct of self-preservation would keep me from jumping into the actual flames. I can see myself running out into a street to stop an animal from being hit but not leaping in front of a car that WILL hit me without a doubt. I'm thinking of gut, kneejerk, instinctual responses here in a situation where there is no time at all to think or consider. It's just really hard to know until it actually happens. The body's sense of self-preservation is not something easily controlled. For example, when I first got contact lenses, it took time for me to be able to not blink my eyes when putting them in. It took practice to quell that natural response.

Now on something like going without to make sure my pets are cared for, I have done so and would do so again.

I can say I'd WANT to do anything humanly possible to stop anything bad happening to my pets, and they are my kids to me, but how I would react in the heat of the moment I can't honestly say. Hopefully it'll never happen.

I think K9soul really put my thoughts into words. Hindsight, and foresight, are always 20/20. We hear stories of heroics every day....yet, who could consciously think, "yep, I would do that same thing in that situation". Who here would have said, "yes, I could do a self-amputation" as the guy stuck in the avalanche did? I don't think I could imagine doing that. But, prolly he never thought so to. The 'moment' brings out reactions unthought of, unimaginable.

I have Jonah in my life now. I have 7 cats as well. I love all 8 of these kids, without making the distinction of whom do I love more. My love for them isn't filtered by whether I birthed them or not. My love is just that, love. Would I risk x for y? Really, I don't even think like that, nor do I want to. My heart would be broken beyond bits if any of them died prematurely. Does that make me a bad parent, or bad pet parent? I don't think so. And, to those that don't understand the love we have for our pets, I am sorry for them. They are missing out on truly unconditional love.

This topic has remained on my mind. ;)

I think that even those of us without skinkids would do what we could to save another human (child or not) if they were in danger.

Your niece didn't necessarily look at the entire picture in any way. Valuing your life so much you don't care enough for others is wrong too.