Hmm. thoughts on a rescue or breeder

(semi-copied from my LJ cause I did not feel like typing this all over again)

I have been wanting to get a puppy this spring. Although I am always constantly looking at shelters & petfinder & the such (just in case & for the heck of it &cause I care), But now I am really getting ready to add an addition to my family.

Keep in mind I am well aware of the over-population of animals, I am 28, have worked in a couple vets offices, one shelter & volunteer(ed) at many of sheters. I have assisted w/ obedience, agility classes & behavioral problems. I am also well aware how to find a very good breeder.

My brain & heart are a bit confused though. You see my whole life I have rescued animals (with the exception of (ferrets) Chaos whom my ex bought w/o me knowing, then Maniac & Spurr but they were "replacement" ferrets from Marshalls, then a couple rats most of the ones I bought came from breeders) ALL the other critters that have ever been in my life came from shelters, streets, bad homes, could no longer care for, etc... always a rescue of some sort.

I have always told myself that any animal I will ever own will be a rescue of some sort or another (with the exception of mainly rats cause they are *sometimes* a bit difficult to come by in my area from shelters & the such)

But you see I am search of a puppy (on & off for well over a year now). I have only been half searching as I *was* not in that much of a hurry.
Now that Nanook is getting older by the day I am more serious about my search.

I want a young pup, 8ish weeks ONLY because I have never ever had a puppy that I kept, all the pups in my life were just rescues that I nursed back to health or just fostered until a suitable home was avail. I've never raised a dog from puppy hood to adult hood & kept them.
AND I want a really healthy one (mainly bones & hips... mobility healthy), ONLY because all the dogs I ever had have had mobility problems.
AND I want a dog w/ excellent temperament ONLY because I want to start training for agility/skijoring/therapy/backpacking-hiking type activity right away. With the dogs I have owned all but one (Nanook) had some type of behavioral issue that took years to overcome (Raustyk is still not very good w/ some strangers & female dogs... 6 years later)
AND I want a very active dog, border collie, husky, aussie etc... med size. Not that a purebred has any importance to me at all, mainly just the activity level & size is what is important.
Trying to find all of those features from a shelter dog is slim. I KNOW that there is no guarantee from a breeder that the dog will be healthy, happy, friendly it's whole life, but the chances are greater from a reputable breeder.

My heart hurts when I think of contacting breeders about purchasing a pup, but yet at the same time my brain says that I have helped out plenty of animals & I deserve just one dog that is more suitable for me.

I know there are options (I have been trying to figure out what to do for years now), I have contacted shelters, & can make arrangements that if the pup is not healthy I can return him/her, but as far as hips go & many other health problems & not knowing any background, you really can't tell until they are 2 years of age, I can not return a dog, it is against my policy, even if I just had it for an hour, let alone 2 years.

I would like to get this figured out in my brain & heart now, in case I decide to get one from a breeder as I will want to find a reputable breeder check them out, they would have to check me out & then I would probably be on a waiting list anyways.

I know I will be rescuing more dogs in the future for companions, but I want a working dog this time around. And I know I will be rescuing older dogs in the future too but I really want a puppy.

Oh I just don't know what the right thing to do is. My heart tells me one thing (to adopt) while my brain tells me another (purchase a reputable puppy). I know they say to follow your heart, but if I do that then my heart my be broken in return due to the fact that if I rescue a dog there is a possibility I can't fully enjoy the activities we can encounter together while I am still young & able.

I guess I don't really know exactly what I am asking for here, just thought I'd share my thoughts with you's since I just don't feel as if I would be fully satisfied with either option.
If you have any suggestions, comments, stories etc... that are somehow related please fell free to share.

I personally disagree with the fact that the kind of puppy you want is hard to find in shelters. There are puppies of ALL types (as I'm sure you know!) and I think you could find one that would meet every one of your needs. The only thing that would be hard to tell is the hips, but you could easily find a healthy pup with a good temperament in a shelter. It hurts me to see so many people thinking you can't find what you're looking for in a shelter.

Do you have any Border Collie or Aussie rescues in your area? Maybe they will get some young puppies. If you let them know now, you could possibily be number one in line for when they do receive pups (spring time is coming!).

Good luck in your decision and I'm sure you'll be happy with what you choose to do in the end :)

I got my pomeranian, Bitsy, from a breeder before I had ever rescued anything. I love her and do not at all regret getting her from a breeder. I won't get any more dogs from breeders because I now would rather rescue.

My mom, dad, and uncle used to work at Lollipop Farm before I was born. I haven't been there since I was very little, but I kind of remember it. Is it still there? Have you ever worked or volunteered there?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a puppy from a RESPONSIBLE breeder. Do some research on any breeders you are interested in, make sure they are good, responsible breeders. You may well be able to find a puppy in rescue if you are willing to wait a bit--Husky rescue regularly gets puppies, but generally not until they are about nine months old and start acting like huskies.

I'm passionate about rescue, but we bought Muskwa from a breeder. My husband knew exactly what he wanted and he waited through three litters and a couple years before Muskwa's breeder had the right puppy. He did his research, knew the breeder, knew the lines and the genetic issues, he knew lots about the breed. He had his heart set on a dog just like Muskwa and he got exactly what he wanted. Nothing wrong with that. If we were ever in a similar situation and wanted a very specific dog, I'd buy from a good breeder again.

Almost two years ago, we adopted Heyoka from a shelter, but Heyoka goes against everything we usually adopt--he hadn't been there for long, he didnt' have any major behavior issues, he was highly adoptable. But we fell in love with him at first glance and decided that even the easy dogs need good homes. 'Kay, we felt a little guilty so we took Raven at the same time!

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Originally posted by aly
I personally disagree with the fact that the kind of puppy you want is hard to find in shelters. There are puppies of ALL types (as I'm sure you know!) and I think you could find one that would meet every one of your needs. The only thing that would be hard to tell is the hips, but you could easily find a healthy pup with a good temperament in a shelter. It hurts me to see so many people thinking you can't find what you're looking for in a shelter.

Do you have any Border Collie or Aussie rescues in your area? Maybe they will get some young puppies. If you let them know now, you could possibily be number one in line for when they do receive pups (spring time is coming!).

Good luck in your decision and I'm sure you'll be happy with what you choose to do in the end :)

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I am sorry I should gave a bit more info, I also want a puppy that is whole (not spayed or neutered yet) believe me I will for sure get the dog spayed/neutered but not until they reach 6 months of age. Almost every shelter in my area now spays/netuers ALL pets BEFORE they leave, regardless of age.

No Aussie or BC rescues in my area either.

I suppose I may be able to locate a rescue pup elsewhere & just get together a transport if need be.

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Originally posted by KBlaix
I got my pomeranian, Bitsy, from a breeder before I had ever rescued anything. I love her and do not at all regret getting her from a breeder. I won't get any more dogs from breeders because I now would rather rescue.

My mom, dad, and uncle used to work at Lollipop Farm before I was born. I haven't been there since I was very little, but I kind of remember it. Is it still there? Have you ever worked or volunteered there?

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Yes it's still there & I live ONLY 2 miles away, I am there almost ever other day & volunteer a couple days a week there.
They remodeled the place a few years back & it is HUGE!!!!!
They have a small shelter in Brockport now at a petsmart, its called lollypop west.
I could of had a full time job at Lolyypop a few back but I chose to work at my family business instead (I regret that)
www.lollypop.org

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Originally posted by lv4dogs
I am sorry I should gave a bit more info, I also want a puppy that is whole (not spayed or neutered yet) believe me I will for sure get the dog spayed/neutered but not until they reach 6 months of age.

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I'm curious as to the reason on this? :confused:

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Originally posted by micki76
I'm curious as to the reason on this? :confused:

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I have been in debates about this before & although I kinda agree w/ their reason behind doing it, to prevent more homeless animals (cause there are people out there that say they will spay/neuter but don't) I just feel it is not safe for their bodies.

I personally feel this has to have some sort of affect of the dogs system.
I know they say it is safe but come on, not having the complete hormones since almost birth has to cause some type of deficincy or problem or stunt growth, something.
Spay us humans even at a ripe ol' age & we still need supplements.

I agree I also think dogs cats should not be spayed till 6 months of age... Anyways personally I think buying a dog from a breeder is not a bad thing as long as you find a good breeder. It is not up to you to feel bad for not always rescuing your animals its not your fault. It's time to get yourself something you want you've helped a lot of animals I'm not saying to stop, but don't feel guilty just because you want to get a puppy from a breeder. The right pup is out there for you whether its in a shelter or from a breeder you will find it :)

All three of my dogs were fixed before 6 months of age, and all three of them are in complete health and I WISH they would stop growing!!


I agree with Aly, yet again.
Maybe you could search for rescue/shelters in your area, maybe even out of your area first.

Don't feel guilty!!! You have EVERY right to get the puppy you want by any means you want to do it!!!
No one is going to judge you by where you got your dog/puppy. If they do then they are shallow.
It sounds like you assuming ALL breeder's are puppy mills. That is NOT the case. Dogs rescued from Puppy mills usually end up in shelters or care houses. So your going to deny a happy loving home because of the circumstances this animal had to endure prior to coming to your home?
I say "Go For IT!!!" Just because it came from a source that KNOWs about the breed of dog, trace family lines, AND can tell you where every puppy lives doesn't sound like a bad thing.
I own 4 dogs ALL rescued from different types of situations. Do you know how great it would be if I could say " I got Dirtnap from a Breeder" INSTEAD of "His owner was in a wheelchair, left him outside all day, is mostly deaf, and going blind". What a mouthful!!! Don't feel guilty about getting the things YOU want!!!

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Originally posted by lv4dogs
Spay us humans even at a ripe ol' age & we still need supplements.

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Well I think that's because we've already been through puberty. Having been "spayed" myself, I think it would've been easier to have never had the hormones in the first place! :D

I want a Westie or Italian Greyhound with all my heart. There are none in shelters and none in resuce that meet my family's needs, so I wait until the day there is one. I've been on the Westie rescue list (which is super long) for a long time.

I personally would never get over the guilt of all the animals dying if I bought a dog. JMO.

Sounds like you've done a lot of good things when it comes to animal rescue and all, and working for a vet, you should know that spay/neuter doesn't harm the animal at all under 6 mos of age. Usually, it's best to get them fixed before their first heat (in terms of females) or before they start spraying/becoming agressive (in terms of males). That's not to say to have it done at 8wks of age (which is also now becoming more popular), but rather before they start these other things. The vet can usually tell you when it is safe to have them fixed, and typically it's based on body weight. It may or may not be at the age of 6 months...some dogs may mature faster then others and go into heat at 5 months of age. These are things you want to avoid.

As far as getting a dog from a breeder, even I have thought about it because I would love to have a Belgian Tervuren later on down the road, and I can say there are not any in shelters around here, and there are only a few in rescues. But, my question is...HOW do you find a responsible breeder? There are so many backyard breeders out there (and sure, they even have family lines, AKC papers and what not...but I don't necessarily consider them reputable).
Neighbors of mine got their dogs from a breeder (which was supposed to be reputable) who only bred that particular type of dog (which is a positive thing, since puppymills breed more than one type of dog typically), but the way the dogs were treated at the breeder's was lousy. They were all kennel dogs, and apparently this breeder didn't like the male dogs, but preferred the female dogs :mad: and treated the male dogs poorly.
My neighbors actually ended up rescuing an older male dog that was used as a "stud", but treated poorly and he still has a strange personality today because of the way he was treated. Both of their dogs are beautiful, but even for a breeder...the "standard" isn't evident, as their female dog is way too small to meet the breed standard...so even with breeders, you may or may not get what you're expecting.
These have been my concerns for turning to a breeder, and I of course rescued, of all things, a little mixed-breed dog! :eek: LOL
Any pointers on HOW to find a reputable breeder would be interesting, because there are SO many breeders out there...that I find it hard to find a reputable one? How do you do it? :confused:

If you're looking for a medium sized dog, then you probably won't have trouble with the hips. It's mostly big dogs that have hip problems.

And as for temperament, it depends a lot on how you raise them. Lots of dogs that have fears, ect, are because something happened to them as a puppy to make them act that way. If you socialize your puppy you shouldn't have those problems.

And about there not being any puppies in shelters in your area - if you went looking for a breeder, wouldn't it probably be a distance from your home? So if you're going to have to travel to get a puppy anyway, why not save a life while you're at it? ^_^

And as for the spaying/neutering early - it is very safe. Read this: http://www.ivis.org/advances/Concann...r_frm.asp?LA=1

You do so much rescue work -- if you really want a dog from a reputable breeder, go for it. It seems like you definatly make up with it with all of the time you put in helping the animals. :)

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Originally posted by wolflady

Any pointers on HOW to find a reputable breeder would be interesting, because there are SO many breeders out there...that I find it hard to find a reputable one? How do you do it? :confused:

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I am getting my pup from a reputable breeder, and when I was searching, I asked the every breeder alot of questions to see what matched my criteria best. Some of the questions I asked were: Why do you breed (I looked out for "to improve the breed")? Are your dogs health certified, and what certificates do they have (the breed I'm getting requires hips, eyes, and ears to be certified)? How many dogs do you have (I prefer a breeder that has more than one breeding pair, for a bigger gene pool)? Are your dogs pedigreed, and how far back do the pedigrees go? Are your dogs in any competitive events (conformation, agility, obedience etc) and do any do them have any titles? Do you breed for working ability? Do you require your dogs to be under a spay/neuter contract if they go to pet homes (Yes is always best)? Are your dogs registered and what registries do you belong to (Some people prefer their dogs to be registered, some don't. Personally I prefer it)? What kind of food do you feed (Avoid breeders that answer "whatever is on sale")? What are your dogs' personalities like, and what kind of problems do they have that you are working on (avoid anyone that makes their dogs sound "perfect")? How many litters per year do you have (the smaller amount, the better in my opinion)?I think there are a few other good points I'm missing, but I hope this helps. :)

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Originally posted by wolflady
Sounds like you've done a lot of good things when it comes to animal rescue and all, and working for a vet, you should know that spay/neuter doesn't harm the animal at all under 6 mos of age. Usually, it's best to get them fixed before their first heat (in terms of females) or before they start spraying/becoming agressive (in terms of males). That's not to say to have it done at 8wks of age (which is also now becoming more popular), but rather before they start these other things. The vet can usually tell you when it is safe to have them fixed, and typically it's based on body weight. It may or may not be at the age of 6 months...some dogs may mature faster then others and go into heat at 5 months of age. These are things you want to avoid.

As far as getting a dog from a breeder, even I have thought about it because I would love to have a Belgian Tervuren later on down the road, and I can say there are not any in shelters around here, and there are only a few in rescues. But, my question is...HOW do you find a responsible breeder? There are so many backyard breeders out there (and sure, they even have family lines, AKC papers and what not...but I don't necessarily consider them reputable).
Neighbors of mine got their dogs from a breeder (which was supposed to be reputable) who only bred that particular type of dog (which is a positive thing, since puppymills breed more than one type of dog typically), but the way the dogs were treated at the breeder's was lousy. They were all kennel dogs, and apparently this breeder didn't like the male dogs, but preferred the female dogs :mad: and treated the male dogs poorly.
My neighbors actually ended up rescuing an older male dog that was used as a "stud", but treated poorly and he still has a strange personality today because of the way he was treated. Both of their dogs are beautiful, but even for a breeder...the "standard" isn't evident, as their female dog is way too small to meet the breed standard...so even with breeders, you may or may not get what you're expecting.
These have been my concerns for turning to a breeder, and I of course rescued, of all things, a little mixed-breed dog! :eek: LOL
Any pointers on HOW to find a reputable breeder would be interesting, because there are SO many breeders out there...that I find it hard to find a reputable one? How do you do it? :confused:

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Yes, it sure can be tricky to find a good breeder.

Here are a few sites that will help you out:

http://www.weeno.com/art/0499/33.html
http://www.hsus.org/ace/11758

Finding a good breeder is and EXCELLENT question. Most people know breeders through the good buddy system. They know someone who knows someone etc... However, you may have a horrible experience while your "friend" had a great one.
I would suggest going online on Professional Organizations websites. (Animal Planet...) There may be links to local breeders.
Ask a VET!!! A VET's Treat Breeder's animals ALL the time. Call different area vets and get their opinion. Someone changing VET's often is a bad sign. Some breeders may also be getting their drugs from the local Co-op as well. May ask someone there.
Your local Animal Control may know good places. They get involved with just more than nuisance calls. They also know where to avoid since they get the animals.
Go to a Dog Show. These people should be registered dog breeders. Check out their credentials. If they are registered for a certain breed you should be able to get alot of information.
Looking on the bulletin board of your local Pet Store may help. Where else do good breeders get their foods? Bad breeders buy at Walmart but good breeders go for quality foods.
This is just some sources. There still are Flea Markets!!! (Sorry had to throw that in there!) Just love the doggy!!!

aly writes:

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I personally disagree with the fact that the kind of puppy you want is hard to find in shelters. There are puppies of ALL types (as I'm sure you know!) and I think you could find one that would meet every one of your needs.

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I looked for about 5 mos on petfinder and rescue sites for a puppy before I got Gully and they were all spoken for by the time I inquired about them. I think next time I'm going to spend more time actually going in person to the adoption events and shelters. The weekend before I picked up Gully, I was in Petsmart and it was adoption day. I passed by the most wonderful Chocolate Lab mix. Wasn't even a breed I was considering, but boy we connected. I would have snatched her up in a minute if it wasn't for Gully. Course I didn't ask about her, so who knows maybe she was already spoken for too. Cuz it was hard to believe a dog that gorgeous and intelligent was even there to begin with.

Par...

Great tips everyone! :) If I ever decide to get a Tervuren, I'll definitely use the advice here! :)
**hugs**
Karen