I have to say something about spaying and nuetering dogs

( i know i didn't spell that right)
To all of you who say it's awful to breed you should nueter or spay your dog you should here breeder's stories. My family are breeders and my mom and i delivered 4 beatiful bichon Frise puppies. WE love them all and they are going to good loving homes. I guess it's all right to fix your pet if your not going to want any puppies but if your considering it i recommend it. It's a great experience and if you find loving homes for all of them you'll definitly be glad you did it!

Not all breeding is bad....improper breeding with money involved is bad

yah but what about all the dogs in shelters what about them??

well most of the dogs in shelters were not properly breed or like the person before you said all they think about is the money
if you breed so other people can enjoy them and find great homes for them then they wont end up in a shelter

We/I don't have a problem with responsible breeders, but puppy mills and backyard breeders with deplorable conditions are what we are against as a rule. Not to say that some of us didn't get their animals from a backyard breeder but they readily admit they didn't know better then but that doesn't mean that they love their dogs less.
I am all for responsible breeding, but the mentality that you "have to breed your dog b/c it makes them a better dog" which is what I heard before I got Keegan spayed, is what makes me extremely angry.
Just remember that with in 5 years if 2 dogs are not spayed/neutered and all their offspring are not spayed/neutered they will produced 64,000 dogs.

Theres a ton of money involved if you are a responsible breeder. Responsible breeders get their dogs vet checked, hip checked, eye checked, heart checked, etc....and get the pups shots when they need them and before they go to their new homes. Spaying and Neutering prevents unwanted litters and is healthier for the dogs. It reduces risks of most cancers. I know it must be exciting seeing the pups born and watching the mother take care of them, but spaying and neutering is probaly the best thing you could ever do for your dog.

:mad: :mad: Of course it is appealing to have little puppies around the house. My Ruby girl is gorgeous, I'm sure she would make adorable puppies. But I would NEVER breed my dog! :mad: (she's spayed anyway). The homes all those cute little puppies go to could've been the homes some dogs in shelters could've went to. I support responsible breeders, I can understand if people want a certain breed because they know it would fit their lifestyle best, but I cannot support back-yard breeders or puppy mills. I, personally, could never buy from a breeder (even a responsible one) with the knowledge of all the homelss dogs that are in shelters. You should not breed your dog just because it would be nice to have puppies around :mad: And I like that fact shais_mom's mom stated, "Just remember that with in 5 years if 2 dogs are not spayed/neutered and all their offspring are not spayed/neutered they will produced 64,000 dogs."

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Originally posted by RubyMutt
:mad: :mad: Of course it is appealing to have little puppies around the house. My Ruby girl is gorgeous, I'm sure she would make adorable puppies. But I would NEVER breed my dog! :mad: (she's spayed anyway). The homes all those cute little puppies go to could've been the homes some dogs in shelters could've went to. I support responsible breeders, I can understand if people want a certain breed because they know it would fit their lifestyle best, but I cannot support back-yard breeders or puppy mills. I, personally, could never buy from a breeder (even a responsible one) with the knowledge of all the homelss dogs that are in shelters. You should not breed your dog just because it would be nice to have puppies around :mad: And I like that fact shais_mom's mom stated, "Just remember that with in 5 years if 2 dogs are not spayed/neutered and all their offspring are not spayed/neutered they will produced 64,000 dogs."

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Well said. Millions of animals are killed every year simply because there aren't enough home for them.

I believe there are very few truly responsible breeders.

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Originally posted by RubyMutt
:mad: :mad: Of course it is appealing to have little puppies around the house. My Ruby girl is gorgeous, I'm sure she would make adorable puppies. But I would NEVER breed my dog! :mad: (she's spayed anyway). The homes all those cute little puppies go to could've been the homes some dogs in shelters could've went to. I support responsible breeders, I can understand if people want a certain breed because they know it would fit their lifestyle best, but I cannot support back-yard breeders or puppy mills. I, personally, could never buy from a breeder (even a responsible one) with the knowledge of all the homelss dogs that are in shelters. You should not breed your dog just because it would be nice to have puppies around :mad: And I like that fact shais_mom's mom stated, "Just remember that with in 5 years if 2 dogs are not spayed/neutered and all their offspring are not spayed/neutered they will produced 64,000 dogs."

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Totally agree. I don't think anyone should breed their dog unless they are responsible breeders. They make a career out of this. It isn't a side hobby. :mad:

Another thing... How do you know that the homes you placed the pup in are going to be good enough. Not everyone can own a dog..thats why we end up having "bad name" breeds. How do you know that the people you give the pup to are going to keep it for ever...when they have a kid, when they move, get sick, and get married?? Its gonna be another shelter pup...but guess what it can't get adopted because its already too old and theres people such as you who breed their house pets so nobody looks for a "shelter" dog.

Most responsible breeders do it for the love of the breed. Once you factor in the cost of food/medical/time - there is actually little or no profit to it. If you are breeding the dog for a profit - I would ask the following question:

1. Have you had a vet check both dame and sire for any genetic problems? or behavioral disposition?

2. Do you throughly check out the adoptive parents? Do they have vet references? Do they have the means to spend at least $1000 a year for the care of the pet? And that is only for basics - if the pet has a health problem that figure could go much higher?

3. Do you take the pups to the vet to get checked before they are adopted? Do you get their first set of shots? If you have ever seen a pup die of parvo - it is heartbreaking.

4. So you provide literature on the breed for prospective parents? Health concerns, training literature, etc?

5. Do you require prospective adoptees to sign an adoption agreement that if it is necessary to ever rehome the dog - you will immediately take it back and rehome it or keep it if you can't rehome it?

6. Do you require prospective adoptees to spay/neuter the dog if it is not deemed show quality?


Responsible breeders require all or most of the above to prospective parents. Do you?

I happen to agree with most everyone on this board that it is appaling how many unwanted pets there are in this and other countries. I volunteer at an animal shelter and see way too many dogs abandoned or abused come in. They were all really cute puppies at one time. Until such a time as all dogs on this earth are treated with respect and love, you shouldn't breed your dog.

JMHO

Besides all the reasons, very powerful, given before for not breeding dogs, there is one just as serious: a female dog who is not spayed runs a very high risk of developing breast cancer. All vets will tell you that and I have the personal experience. I didn't spay my first Golden, not because I wanted to breed her but because I didn't want her to have surgery thinking that it would be too painful. She died of breast cancer, after surgery and chemo, at the age of nine. That was a long time ago, I learned my lesson. My next two dogs were spayed as soon as it was possible.

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Originally posted by cowlovr9797
well most of the dogs in shelters were not properly breed or like the person before you said all they think about is the money
if you breed so other people can enjoy them and find great homes for them then they wont end up in a shelter

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Ending up in a shelter has nothing to do with the way a dog was bred. There are plenty of wonderful dogs in shelters, purebred or mutt. One example is my old neighbor's bichon--they rescued Max at 6 years old, when his time was running out. He is an incredible dog, and was obviously bred properly.

Breeding because the puppies are cute is totally irresponsible.

I understand that you think these puppies are going to good loving homes and they will have such wonderful lives, but the truth is, you just never know.

I agree with everyone. I support responsible breeding because without responsible breeding, who's going to keep the standard alive? Although, I don't feel like I'll have the need to go to a breeder again unless I want a dog for conformation or just can't find the breed in shelters over a long period of time.

The fact is, no responsible breeder can make a living out of breeding dogs. And a responsible breeder wouldn't care because they should have been breeding out of love for the breed in the first place, not money. I just cringe everytime I hear about someone breeding because puppies are cute. Sure they are. But is it so cute when your dog is dying of breast cancer? Or has prostate problems?

I guess that's my little rant for today....:rolleyes:

Did you know???

Each day 10,000 humans are born in the US- and each day 70,000 pups& kitts are born. As long as these birth rates exist, there will never be enough homes for all the animals. As a result, millions of healthy, loving cats, dogs, kittens and puupies face early deaths as a form of animal control. Others are left to fend for themselves against cars, the elements, animals and cruel humans. What can you do to stop the suffering? Spay and neuter your pets!!

An unspayed female dog , her mate and all their puppis and thier puppies' puppies, if none are ever neutered or spayed, add up to:
1yr:16
2yrs:128
3yrs:512
4yrs: 2,048
5yrs: 12,288
6yrs: 67,000
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

I support good breeders.... BUT how do you know there in good homes? I honestly dont think that anyone who can buy a dog from a breeder while knowing that millions of dogs are dyeing in shelters can be a nice person.

UNLESS they know that it is a speicific breed they want to fit their lifestyle, and they have checked shelters to make sure none of them will fit there life style.

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Originally posted by RubyMutt
The homes all those cute little puppies go to could've been the homes some dogs in shelters could've went to.

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Exactly.

I would love to see one of my dogs have pups, but NEVER will that happen while there are still kill shelters and innocent dogs are losing their lives each second that passes by. (All my dogs are fixed btw)

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Originally posted by cowlovr9797
It's a great experience and if you find loving homes for all of them you'll definitly be glad you did it!

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you shouldnt do it for the "experience." :(

and *IF* you find loving homes for them.......

if being the key word there.

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Originally posted by Jessica12345
you shouldnt do it for the "experience." :(

and *IF* you find loving homes for them.......

if being the key word there.

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Agreed.

I agree with most everyone.

I agree with breeding responsibly -- responsibly as in : Dogs have certificates for checked eyes, hips, elbows ETC....Dogs are good quality in something (ie. conformation, agility, herding, diving, flyball)....Dogs are vet checked ATLEAST twice a year....Dogs have the right amount of exersise, food, etc needed for the breed....Breeder specializes in one breed only....The dogs are given out to screened homes that the breeder has visited and confirmed are safe and happy environments....Dogs and puppies have pedigrees, papers, and are registered....Breeders do it ONLY for the love and improvement of the breed....Breeders educate others on the breed, and give helpful hints as to why buying from a good breeder is better than a backyard breeder....Breeder does not care for profit....Parents and other pet/breeder dogs are shown at the time of buying the puppy....Puppies are sold somewhat expensively to give owners a chance to realize how expensive the pup will be in the long run....Breeders check the liability of owners with references, and possibly even know the amount of money going into their homes per year....

Much MUCH more

A good breeder never does something for experience. A backyard breeder does. A good breeder never breeds just because they want to know what it's like, or they want to see what their dogs' pups will look like. Backyard breeders do those things. I don't agree with backyard breeding. Anyone may do what they like, but personally I believe it should be illegal to breed without a licence.

It's more at times like these that I wish there was a program on the computer that would tell you exactly what your dog's puppies would like like when paired with another dog :p

Agreed wolfsoul. :)

Breeding Rule Number 3,343,678,645,385,491,648

Chances are if you if you make money from breeding dogs- your prolly not doing it right. (Very few Exeptions)

It's more at times like these that I wish there was a program on the computer that would tell you exactly what your dog's puppies would like like when paired with another dog
that would be a great idea actully i also agree with whoever said if you make money from breeding your doing it wrong. But the reason i don't belive it should be illegeal do breed without a liscense is because all of the liescence breeders charge sooo much escpically for the breed i have. That's why we started breeding and belive me we are more in debt then if we've mad any thing

i forgot to add one thing we didn't do it for the expereince we did it because so many people we know love our dogs and have allergys to most dogs but all the breeders for our kind of dog charged too much so we were going to make an exception

So, you breed because people like your dog....:rolleyes: . Yes, some responsible breeders charge a load for one of their pups, but in return you should get a healthy dog, with an excellent background.

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Originally posted by GoldenRetrLuver
So, you breed because people liked your dog....:rolleyes: . Yes, some responsile breeders charge a load for one of their pups, but in return you should get a healthy dog, with an excellent background.

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Totall agree. Mickey was 500$ but worth every penny and more. He's healthy, has an amazing temperment and is just a great dog.

I'm sure there are many bichon Frise rescues that they can get dogs from without having to pay $500+ for.

An expensive pup is a good thing. It shows someone that if you can't afford the pup now, then you never will. This is how expensive it is when you get it, think about how expensive it will be tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day...

Ideally, there would be NO dogs in shelters and all dog pregnancies would be planned. But of course, it isn't a perfect world. I try to get strays, but I understand what you are saying. My childhood dog Christy was such a perfect dog. She was spayed when we got her, but I would give a million bucks to have a pup of hers. She was the most gorgeous and perfect dog in the world. Papers or not, she would have had awesome offspring and it would have been such a great experience. I am starting to feel that way about Roxy too. She's spayed, and I have had her since Feb. She is turning out to be such an amazing and special dog that it almost seems like a crime that she won't have offspring. But everytime I visit the pound, my temptation goes away on breeding.

I think that there are alot of pluses about RESPONSIBLE breeding. I think we should be trying to keep bloodlines clean. But one thing that irks the hell out of me about AKC is how close the bloodlines are though. It disgusts me how alot of the dogs share grandparents and whatnot. They are often way to closely related! I guess to others that is normal, but it doesn't seem right to me.

here,
i was reading this and this made me support it more than i ever did.
http://members.tripod.com/ndrc/tonuter.htm
maybe this is off the subject but its still useful
-You said that you will be able to find loving good homes for the pups

In your own fantasy world, maybe. In reality, finding good homes for puppies is extremely difficult, especially for those of mixed origin. Giving them to anyone who comes to your door and is willing to take them or hand over cash does not constitute a truly good home. In fact, only 1 in 5 "free to good home" pets actually make it into a good home. That means, statistically, that in a litter of 5 puppies only 1 may actually end up in a good home. What happens when one of the new owners of one of those puppies call you six months later to say that they no longer want the dog? Would you be willing to take him or her back? These are all things that need to be considered. Every single puppy that you help bring into this world is your responsibility until it leaves this world. Also keep in mind that each good home you find for one of your puppies could mean one less good home for those in shelters looking for homes. In less than a year's time, your dog's puppies will be old enough to have their own puppies unless you require that they be spayed/neutered. This means even fewer homes for those in shelters, and the greater potential spread of genetic disease in your breed. Therefore, you may be able to find a great home for a few but, maybe some people have allergies to dogs and never knew it till you gave them that dog.. They would end up either giving it back, OR putting it in a shelter..