not trying to start a fight but..

are you for or against declawing a cat? My mom thinks I need to delcaw my kitties, but I will NOT do it!
I am against it myself, and I understand why some people do it, but I just try to imagine myself not having part of my fingers..It is like cutting part of our finger off for life and not being able to do the things I should be able to do....I dunno..this subject has been on my mind alot, and I had gone to this web site that actually showed the surgery of declawing a kitty, and OMG, That poor baby.....what are your thoughts on this?? Here is the site,,,if you are weak at heart, don't look because they are very graphic....
declaw.lisaviolet.com/declawpics.html

I think that you will have many responses here by people far more knowledgeable than myself!

What I do know is that this procedure is very painful to your kittens.

Your kittens if declawed won't be able to scratch - but they will use their next best defense and that is BITING!

A good scratching post and some TRAINING (just like you would do with a small child) makes a world of difference.

I wish you good luck and hope that you will not have them declawed!

I just can't imagine cutting my own finger off at the first knuckle. I know that when I worked at a vet and people called to ask about it, we'd do everything in our power to talk them out of it and provide training alternatives.

Personally, I've just resigned myself to the fact that I won't be buying any nice furniture while I have kitties. :)

I will admit that there are times that I wish Butter didn't have his front claws or teeth, for that matter, but I'll take the scratches and scars, any day, over the declawing alternative. I'm with you.......no declawing at this house.

Logan

There is lots of information here, we have had this discussion before. Do a "Search" for declawing, and you find lots of stuff, most people here are vehemently opposed to it, so it'll be good "fuel" for your discussion with your mom.

Quote:

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Originally posted by gini
I think that you will have many responses here by people far more knowledgeable than myself!

What I do know is that this procedure is very painful to your kittens.

Your kittens if declawed won't be able to scratch - but they will use their next best defense and that is BITING!

A good scratching post and some TRAINING (just like you would do with a small child) makes a world of difference.

I wish you good luck and hope that you will not have them declawed!

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I agree a 100% with Gini! I would never have a cat declawed - even if it was legal here!

This subject has been discussed here before, one thread you can have a look at is this. :) - and there are others.

Declawing cats

I had my very first cat declawed. I was, at the time, brought up with the idea that it was ok. I did not know a lot about it.All I did know was that my cat did not seem to get the idea of NOT using her claws to play with. (we got scratched a lot). It was HORRIFIC !!! She could not put weight on her front paws for literaly months. and I do not think her front paws ever looked quite right after that. I have never had it done again, and now that I know the facts, would not ever think of it as an alternative (for myself).
BUT...
If the choice came down to having a cat destroyed OR getting it declawed, I'd say declaw it. (if someone asked me for my opinion). I'd think to myself, what a selfish choice, but declawed cats do come into where I wiork, and for the most part, seem to be ok.
How's that for a wishy-washy answer?!?

Show your mom this link: www.declawing.com It isn't a graphic link, but is very educational. I have a feeling she'll change her opinion.

Declawing a cat is animal abuse, plain and simple. There is a reason its outlawed in so many countries.

I also think that declawing a cat is cruelty, plain and simple! I would never do it myself.

Speckles came to me declawed and although there is nothing wrong with her, she will bite if she's provoked. One comical thing is that she must still think she has claws because she always goes through the motions on the scratch post.

I sincerely hope you leave them intact.

I wouldn't do it. All my cats have claws, we have dogs and I like the cats to have some defense.

I find that keeping the nails clipped (just the tips) does a lot for keeping damage down. Many cats don't like this, but if you start getting them used to it when they're young, they accept it.

There really isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said so... JUST DON'T DO IT!

I dont belive in declawing cats, because I have had many and they only claw there scratching post, once bluy scratched the couch instead, but i just picked her up and put here by her scratching post and she hasnt scratched anywhere else.

try SOFT PAWS!!! they worked miracles at our house!

I'm against declawing.

I believe that if you do not want to spend time training your cat to scratch appropriate areas (ie: scratching post) then you should not get a cat.

If you put your material objects ahead of the mental and healthy well being of a cat, then a feline should not be in your future.

Why do you think most of Europe and Australia has a ban or seriously discourages declawing?

A good majority of North American's do not educate themselves enough on the effects and consequences before declawing an animal. It's a shame that many vets do not even blink an eye because they can line their pockets with this unnecessary procedure.

(there are some instances where declawing is done that I agree with - but 95% of declawing procedures are unnecessary)

If you don't have the time, don't do the crime.



;)

I swore I would never post this here, because I knew I would lose the respect of some people. But, I don't think I am being very fair to others that aren't as strong willed as I am, and that might not speak out. All six of my cats are declawed, and it was completely my choice to do it (I mean that they didn't come to me that way, I made the decision to have it done.).

While I do understand the debate, and know that it is illegal in some places, I don't think the legality of the issue 'makes the case'. For example, it is illegal to have minors drink here in the US. But, I don't think that means 'drinking by someone 17 years old is bad'. Another example...it is legal for nearly anyone of age (16) to drive over here, but, that certainly doesn't mean they should. I am NOT comparing a surgical procedure to these other things. I am just setting forth my opinion that just because something is illegal or legal doesn't mean it is right...unless you are on the side arguing for it and it is legal, or against it, and it is illegal. Take abortion as an example. I, personally, am pro-choice. It is legal in Ohio. BUT, I imagine there are one or two people that would go to the end with me on that issue. So, first, I want to say, I believe it is a choice- legality aside.

I have spoken with the four vets that I have had the procedure done by. I can't say that anyone of them ever even attempted to dissuade me from it. I inquired as to their opinion, and I don't recall getting anything negative- other than a reduced risk to defend. But, even that is not completely accurate, and the back claws still do significant damage..as many of us can attest to. Not a single one of my cats acts different than other cats I have seen. In fact, all of my cats are incredibly playful (Even Tex at 11), climb the heck out of stuff, play, walk, run, let me touch their paws (well, some are more tolerant than the others, and the back paws are just as off limits as the front.).

My cats still claw at everything, and as I have said in the past, this is more because of the scent glands, than the need to scratch.

I might mention that SOMETIMES when partys oppose a certain thing, it is painted in the most gruesome light possible...

Having said all of the above, if you have things that you feel the need to express to me, I would prefer not to be publically attacked, but, will promise to respond to every single pm I recieve.

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Originally posted by Cataholic
All six of my cats are declawed, and it was completely my choice to do it (I mean that they didn't come to me that way, I made the decision to have it done.).

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wow, I did not know that!

I have had other cats that were declawed prior to them living with me, and I have not had problems with any of them. But I do know that 2 things are common in declawed cats 1) biting and 2) not using the litter box. The second reason is seen all too often in shelters.
(now I say common as in likely to happen, not definite as in these things WILL happen)
I would like to repeat that at work we get a lot of declawed cats and the owners do not have problems with them.
BUT, I'd also like to say how many vets will really say "don't do this" when it is income for them?

My best friend had her first cat declawed and she regrets it so much. (She was uneducated on what it was) When he got home from his surgery he was in a ton of pain. Now....he bites everyone is a really skittish.

Just throwing in my two cents.

All of mine are declawed. Bach and Mozart were my husbands choice to do so. Mozart had a tougher time than bach did with the procedure.. but I can tell you that they are happy, playful, CRAZY kitties, that climb over everything and ANYTHING. It has not hurt them in the least..

Of course all of mine are INSIDE only and we don't have a dog.. so the defence issue was not an "issue" for us.

Eliza however..well when we got her ALL FOUR of her feet are declawed. We are unsure why this was done to her (my husbands parents got her that way)... She is inside with me, but with his parents (before they got rid of her) she was outside, which was BAD BAD BAD.. she got hurt a couple of times.

As for biting and not using the litterbox.. all of mine use the litterbox (they just prefer to let me cover up their jobs!), and biting I haven't seen much MORE of a tendency than they had before hand (in the two boys). Eliza doesn't bite often period unless she's playing rough with you.

So... I think it's just a matter of will that cat ever be outside, is there a need for it to have claws? blah blah blah. I don't know if I would have personally had Mozart and Bach declawed, because I don't mind kitty scratches. My husband was the one that said it was a must do. :rolleyes:

*edit: I know I won't make a lot of friends with this post. I am sorry but it is the way I feel*

Declawing is a horrendous act. And I do not say this without being educated. I've done the research and I've seen the poor babies coming out of the surgery (on video). It makes me want to throw up. I've also first hand met hundreds of declawed cats through my shelter work over the years. I can almost always predict a declawed cat from their behavior alone. Sure, your cat can end up with no biting tendencies or aggression problems after the surgery, but consider yourself lucky.

One reason they may stop using the litter box is beacause of the PAIN. Also, since they have no defenses, they could start marking.

A cat's natural instinct to scratch serves BOTH physical and psychological needs. Cats can be trained to satisfy their desire to claw without damaging valuable property. Sprinkle a cat post with catnip. Squirt the cat with a water gun when he/she chooses to try to scratch the furniture. Most importantly, never give the cat an opportunity to be alone with valued furniture while you are still training the cat where to scratch. Sure, that means the cat would have to be confined to a room every time you're out of the house for a month or less. I think that is much better than amputating the toes though.

Here is an exerpt from a declawing site about the effects of declawing:

Pain. While the immediate post-surgical pain that the cats suffer is obviously severe, it is impossible to know how much chronic pain and suffering declawing causes. However, one can consider similar procedures in people. Many human amputees report life-long, painful "phantom" sensations from the amputated part. Declawing is ten to eighteen separate amputations, so it is not unreasonable to believe that declawed cats experience phantom pain in one or more toes. Cats typically conceal pain or illness until it becomes unbearable. With chronic pain, it may be that they simply learn to live with it. Their behavior may appear normal, but a lack of overt signs of pain does not mean they are pain-free.

Declawing can also cause arthritis because they shift the weight backwards onto the center of the paw rather than the toe after the surgery. I would never want my baby to go through this.

Some vets recommend the procedure because it brings money in. Sad but true. My vet refuses to even do it and offers many educational materials on why not and on how to handle a cat with claws. Surgery brings a quick result with no work requred by the "owner". Why get a cat if you're not willing to spend time training? Baffles me. And the training usually does not consist of much effort.

If you are considering declawing, please watch a cat coming out of the surgery. Watch how they can't walk and have to keep picking their paws up really fast as soon as they put them down because of the immense pain :(

My final thought: If I were to consider mutilating a cat, I would seriously NOT even get a cat in the first place.

Here's my two cents worth on the declawing issue ...

First of all, I don't own any cats. Never have, never will. I'm deathly allergic to cats.

My niece owns seven cats, all of which are declawed. They are all perfectly happy, healthy indoor cats. They do not bite, they are not aggressive, they don't have trouble walking, jumping, balancing, etc. They act exactly the same as any cat with claws does. I also own a boarding kennel, and I board hundreds upon hundreds of cats every year. I have never noticed a difference in the clawed and declawed cats as far as behavior goes. So, sorry, but I don't buy it that declawed cats are so traumatized by declawing. I've never seen any evidence of it.

And, most importantly, I have been involved with humane societies and shelters in three different states for over fifteen years. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that declawed cats are far, far more adoptable than clawed cats. If there are twenty cats in the intake room of animal control, and there are only five open spaces in adoptions .... I can almost guarantee you that the five spaces will be filled with declawed cats, and the clawed cats will be dead.

At our humane society right now, we have four PAGES in our referral book filled with people wanting declawed cats, and willing to be put on a long waiting list to adopt one. A declawed cat stays about one day at our shelter before it is adopted. On the other hand, dozens upon dozens of clawed cats are euthanized at animal control every week, because we don't have space to take them, and they are not in demand. A plain orange tiger cat? They're a dime a dozen, and it is going to be gassed at animal control. A plain orange declawed tiger cat? There's a waiting list, and it's going home today.

So ...you tell me ... what's better? A declawed cat in a loving home? Or a clawed cat dead on top of a pile of clawed cats in the city landfill?

The reason declawed cats go faster is not because of behavior. It is because they come already mutilated and the people don't have to deal with getting their toes amputated and watching them go through excruciating pain.

I've been working in adoption at shelters for 3 years now. People DO take declawed cats faster regardless of temperament. I've seen people fighting over a declawed cat we had because each family had just bought new furniture. None of them had even visited with the cat or any others. They then each visited with the cat and were bitten by the cat. The cat cowered in the corner of the room and wanted nothing to do with them. Guess what? They both still wanted the cat.

I'm not trying to argue with you because I almost always really agree with everything you say. I am just saying that I have had experience with hundreds (maybe thousands) of declawed cats also and I am not making up what I said in my previous post.


(Opps, I wrote this when I was in a hurry. Although declawed cats do go pretty fast here, it is nowhere near the rate how you say it is where you are. Regardless of the fact, if declawing were illegal, all the cats would be on an equal playing field and maybe people would judge on PERSONALITY and not mutilations).

Wow, this has become heated.

I just find it unfair that people who want a cat will only want that cat should it be surgically altered to suit their needs/lifestyle. It seems rather selfish to me.

I figure that there's no way a human will be able to transport into a cat's body post-declawing and know every inch of their post-declawing experience. But why risk it? If you really love cats and really want one, why not just train it to use its claws on a post? Or why not use SoftPaws?

I don't see the need to potentially inflict pain on an animal because of my pretty furniture.

Very well put Soledad.

When we go to the shelter and see that a newly arrived cat is declawed (and at least 70% ARE) I get really sad. I feel so badly for the poor animal. And I can honestly say that I wouldn't want to adopt a declawed cat and bring it into my home with four cats that DO have claws. I think that would be really cruel.

Maybe if there weren't alternatives to declawing, there would be SOME validity to choosing to mutilate your pet. But there are so many alternatives...there is NO excuse.

Out of our four cats, the only cat that went near furnature was Noah. As soon as we got Sticky Paws, he stopped.

personally, i dont like the idea of declawing...but thats just my opinion, and i dont think that declawing is wrong at all...i think it can be helpful in some cases...there is a new surgery called laser declawing which does not cause pain at all....
my only problem with declawing is the fact that the cats now have no natural emergency escape routes, persay...they now cant climb trees to flee dogs or other animals...or use their claws in defense if another animal is trying to hurt them, or someone is trying to steal them...thats my reason for disliking thprocedure...but i know a declawed cat...he is wonderful :) they declawed him because he kept attacking the dog lol....the dog is still afraid after all these years :rolleyes:

I was thinking back on my original post about a "stray cat" in my yard. You can find it here on Pet Talk. I thought this cat was declawed and I felt so terrible about that and the fact that he was outdoors. It was my Butter, who we all know now is definitely NOT declawed!!!! :)

I have only recently realized just how awful and cruel declawing is. I understand how people that don't realize what is involved can have it done to their cats, but I would never do that. I have one cat that is declawed, before I got her, and it is so sad to see her trying to scratch her scratching board! and it is very painful for them , takes along time to heal. there are so many solutions to the scratching problems. a little patience and love is all it takes, in fact I have a cat that that has been with me for over 2 years that was always good about where she scratched but is now having a problem, she is being naughty and scratching on the couch, but I will work with her and she will never be declawed!
I wish it was not painful to them, then it would be an easy decision. but it is so I could never do that.

Quote:

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Originally posted by wolfsoul
there is a new surgery called laser declawing which does not cause pain at all....

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Just because the surgery may be easier, it'd still have to cause pain. There's no way the cat could have the tips of its toes removed and not have pain afterwards.

I don't have a cat, so I don't really know. Actually, until I read a post on here earlier, I didn't even know it was removing part of the toe.

From what I have read, it does seem very painful. :( I think Soft Paws would be a much better alternative.

Quote:

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Originally posted by wolfsoul
there is a new surgery called laser declawing which does not cause pain at all....

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There is still discomfort and pain with this procedure. Yes there is less pain and less blood loss during the few days after the surgery, but the long-term declawing effects are still the same.

After researching and talking with the vet, I would never declaw a cat. My bf's sister wants to get a cat and have it declawed because she has a leather couch :mad: I made my bf send her an email link with pics of the surgery being done (yes I'm sneaky ;)) Personally, I think it's mutilation. Unlike spay or neuter (which could be seen as altering a pet for our own needs) it doens't have any long term health benefits. The only declawed cats I've ever known were extremely skittish, or, if you could get near them, agressive.

And, even though people are very passionate about this topic, it's great to see that the converstation has stayed nice :) Thanks for that :)

Maybe the only thing I take exception with is that a person couldn't really love a cat if they got it declawed. While no one on here knows me personally, I don't think there is a person that does that doubts my love/dedication etc. for my cats. I really don't think it is so black and white.

As to mutilating an animal for one's own pleasure...I think that is an inaccurate way to state it. I am also reminded of those that dock/crop dog's tails/ears for standard purposes. Really, an argument could be made any way one likes it. As to the statement that the cats that come into shelters declawed are more easily spotted as behavioural issues, etc., one must look at the higher chance of behavioral issues that might exist which is probably the reason they were taken to the shelter in the first place.

I have six cats, have had cats always (and I am old), and can say without trepidation- my cats do not bite...in fact, have NEVER bitten, and I do mean never...(excluding play), use the litterbox faithfully (for which I am grateful), and couldn't be more affectionate if they were dogs! I have had service men ask me to put my cats away because they get in the way. So, while we all have opinions, they are just that. I might be the exception...maybe my cats are the only ones that fully recovered, and haven't suffered any trauma...I can't really know that. But, I will stand by my right to choice, and appreciate the opportunity to defend my position.

As to the pms...I appreciate that I haven't been feathered and tarred (yet?)...

I agree with Cataholic...
I have had cats ever since I was little, and never encountered a declawed one or knew of the prodedure until I met my husband.. And my three babies have alll completely recovered and act like any other kitty around with claws. They do not have behavioral problems, or any other problem people have stated here. are NOT skittish, nor aggressive and in fact tend to always find the first stranger in the door and say hello.

I do also, however, think it's awful that people will opt for a declawed cat FIRST before any other cat. That should NEVER be the deciding factor in what cat to get. It should be the cat's personality that leads a family to adopt them.

I am neither for nor against it, and am sort of on the fence. Would it have been up to me would my babies still have claws? Most definetely. Probably because that's part of being a cat. If I get another cat someday will I declaw? Probably not, at least not if its my decision.
If i'm going to adopt a cat will that decide whom I welcome home? NO WAY!

I am never going to flame someone online for their opinion. The best I can do, is state my reasons why i'm against it rationally, and listen to other views on the subject. The key is to talk, discuss, challenge, and listen.

People can argue up and down about behavioural problems, pain imposed by the procedure, etc. etc.

My base reason for being against declawing is that you are altering an animal for your own purpose. You are not doing it for the improvement of the animal. When you choose to have a cat in your home you are it's guardian. You are it's voice and you take responsibility for it. And by your decisions, you are choosing the life that the animal will follow.

What ever happened to training animals not to scratch? To looking at other options (softclaws etc) before proceeding with this procedure. It just sickens me when people don't even try to train the cat and just go ahead with this procedure. In my opinion, that is not looking after the welfare of that animal.

Twisterdog stated:

"So ...you tell me ... what's better? A declawed cat in a loving home? Or a clawed cat dead on top of a pile of clawed cats in the city landfill?"

A cat that is not altered and living with it's own facilities in tact is the option. I'll tell you that as long as there are people who easily allow this procedure to be done without educating the client first, this will continue to be the status quo.

I truly believe that declawing should not be the first thing that pops into someone's mind when they look at adopting a kitten. The person who is adopting should have to educate themselves first and/ or be shown how to properly handle and train an animal before any adoption should take place.

Again, this is only my opinion. Thanks for listening.

I guess I will jump in here as the one person who has a cat with behavioral issues related to the declaw surgery. I know I have posted on the other declaw threads, but I thought I would just post my experience here as well, for those who haven't seen.
I admit, I am one of those people that really didn't know anything at all about the declaw surgery. It just seemed like the thing to do if you had a cat. Take it to get fixed and declawed. Being young at the time, this was my observation.
Later, after doing much research and speaking to people about it, I fully came to understand what it was all about and was mortified. I had no idea that bone was actually snipped off! I certainly wouldn't want any of my body parts cut off simply for convenience.
My husband had his cat Scooter declawed, and now Scooter has a behavioral problem, which is unfortunately one of those rare instances that stem from having the procedure done. Granted, it doesn't seem to happen as often, but it still happens. He's skittish, bites and eliminates outside of the litterbox. I also get the distinct impression that his feet still hurt quite alot, as he gets really ticked off if you get near them. Most declawed cats that end up in shelters are a classic case like Scooter, and it's usually because of elimination outside of the litterbox. We, however, decided to deal with it because it was his choice to get his cat declawed. This all happened before we were married. After I did research about the procedure, it really cleared up Scooter's behavior, but that doesn't make it any better. We've tried everything to treat Scooter, and finally the only thing we can do is put him in his playpen when we can't watch him. I feel so bad that he has to be locked away in his playpen whenever we're not home, but if we don't do that, our carpet would be full of cat pee, and we just can't have that. You should have seen Aaron's apartment before we were married and moved into our own place! :eek:

My cat Marius, is not declawed. I refused to do it when Aaron and I were married and I will never have it done to any of my future cats (unless per chance they come to me that way). Since his cat is declawed, though, I didn't want my Marius to accidently hurt him while playing or have some sort of "advantage" over him, which is why I opted for the soft paws nail caps. My cat is really good about his scratching habits, actually...so it wasn't even an issue. I just think that if you take time to train the cat to scratch appropriately, then that is always the best choice. But, there are alternatives to consider before mutilation.

I am not attacking anyone's point of view. This is just my experience. I am one of those unfortunate few that has a cat that suffers behavioral problems due to surgery.

I know for a fact that each of us on Pet Talk with is blessed to share their lives with their cats, love them very much...clawed or not! :) So, go hug your kitties and tell them that you love them! Don't forget those scritchies and treats! :D

I have seen shows on kittys that got declawed and now couldnt walk because of it. Plus it is very painful for them.:( I wouldnt declaw my cats (if i had any:rolleyes: ) although i CAN see why some of you do it. Im not trying to be mean;)

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Originally posted by wolflady
I guess I will jump in here as the one person who has a cat with behavioral issues related to the declaw surgery......:D

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Thank you for coming forward to state that these types of behaviors actually are a result (sometimes) of declawing. YES, it is the minority of cats that this happens to, but why take the chance???? What if you adopted the most lovable, well adjusted cat you have ever seen. The kind you'd been looking for all your life.....PERFECT !!! and then you declaw it and it begins to refuse the litter box (simply because the litter hurts its feet too much). Then what? You know that 9 out of 10 HONEST people would not want to live with a cat for 10 plus years with it peeing on the carpet constantly. That is why they end up in shelters. And besides the fact that they might get picked first, those unsuspecting people will come to find that their new pet was at the shelter for a reason. And while those new pet owners turn around to bring their new found "problem" pet back to the shelter (or worse, just dump it) other deserving cats (with their claws) have been put to sleep for lack of room. Do you see what I mean? Why risk it?

Yuck

The ex "loser" once adopted a declawed cat, the poor thing was very timid and would end up sliding off stuff he tried to jump onto :( poor little mite.
The Ex ditched the kitty back at the SPCA cause the kitty was spraying :mad:

Quote:

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Originally posted by aly


There is still discomfort and pain with this procedure. Yes there is less pain and less blood loss during the few days after the surgery, but the long-term declawing effects are still the same.

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i wouldnt really know, i just heard it on tv...

Let me first state that I'm please that we can have a heated (but polite!) debate on such a hot issue.

Here are my personal observations about declawing.

Case #1: Missy, a declawed polydactyl, was the most sweet cat you'd ever hope to find.

Case #2: Spliffy was a terrible biter at first. BUT, I don't think it was JUST about the declaw. She had been isolated for 7 years. I retrained her and she no longer bites.

I work in cat rescue as a volunteer. Declawing comes up as an issue. Each foster mom/pop has the option and final say about adoption. When it comes to declawing, some foster parents will sanction it before 6 months. Others, and I count myself among these, prefer not to. I actively ask my prospective adopter if they a. have declawed cats; b. did they do the declaw or did they come that way; c. why? and d. would they declaw this kitten?

I know folks can lie. But, if they otherwise "pass" I feel I can take what they say at face value.

Other volunteers are of the opinion that not allowing to declaw is a barrier to getting cats placed. I beg to differ since declawed ones come in all the time.

Well that was long winded, was it not?