Vicious dogs

Was at the park with Juneau, and he was playing with Nikita, and Roxy. There was some lady in the park with a vicious dog on a leash, Juneau ran up to the dog to say 'hi' and the lady started yelling at me. I lost my temper and said 'MAYBE YOU SHOULD'NT HAVE A VICIOUS DOG IN A PUBLIC PARK!!' she reemed me out for having my dog off-leash, and did the same to Nikita's mommy.
Apparently, not long before that that vicious dog attacked another dog that was off-leash. BLAH!! Yes, the park is NOT offleash but if the dog is *that* vicious it should be muzzled, or not in public *AT ALL*. Of course, all of us 'rebels' agreed, that if the stupid 'beast' as I dubbed her *heh heh* socialized her dog properly, the dog would be fine :rolleyes:


I was terrified this Monster's dog was gonna beat my poor friendly dog up.

I don't think anyone should be allowed to own a dog that does not love it enought to socialize it and love it enough for it not to be vicious... I think that is animal cruelty!!!!!!!:mad:

MUZZLE THAT OWNER!!! Then take the poor dog away and give it alittle TLC!

Thanks guys, she claimed her dog was not vicious but "young", I found that to be laughable. The dog looked full-grown, and I've had stinker since he was 1.5 years old and he's never been vicious!!!
what an idiot.......mutter

Sounds like it's time for someone to go into business making OWNER MUZZLES!!!

My dog isn't vicious, but if an unleashed dog came running up to him, he would get defensive. He was abused before he came to live with my family and although we have socialised him, obviously he's going to get his back up because him being on a leash is like he's cornered. He's very good off leash, but whenever I see another dog that IS on a leash, I call him and make him sit by my knee until the other dog has gone by. Sometimes the other dog comes over, they have a sniff fest and then they play together if the other owner says it's ok. But I can't say that I really blame the owner for getting nervous.. to have three unleashed dogs come over and not knowing their demeanor. Maybe she got scared and her dog defended her.. I would WANT Garth to do that for me.. and he would sense my fear and I know he would fight for that reason.

I wish my Garthy-boy lived up here with me!!! It's not until I tell a Garth story that I miss him a lot :(

Only two dogs approached, and Juneau tried to say Hi first but I ran for him screaming for him to come. I managed to get him to come toward me, but then Nikita came for a sniffies too.
I am sure your dog does not actually regularly *attack* other dogs like this one did, it actually took a chunk out of one of the dogs, I forget that dog's name atm tho. Wasn't Juneau or Roxy or Nikita. Roxy never approached either.

No Garth doesn't take chunks.. he just growls and the fur on his neck gets up kinda like.. "Just try it buddy!!!" I didn't realise you meant a biting dog. :)

I have a different take on this. My dog is not vicious, but he is defensive. You were wrong to have your dog off leash. I hate it when unleashed dogs come up to me when I have my dog on leash, my dog will do his darndest if he even *thinks* I am being threatened - he is very, very protective of me.

My dog was abused before I got him, maybe her situation is similar. I chose to take Bandit, and I keep him on leash all the time. The only other alternative was death for him - nobody else wanted him.

If you want to have your dog offleash in public areas, respect the wishes of others who do not want your dog near their's and call your dog back when you see a situation happening- dog fights are not a pretty sight. If your dog is not well-trained to voice commands, he should not be off leash in public.

And you would be at fault and liable since your dog was illegaly offleash.

Collars come off, leashes slip etc
I would be worried sick if I thought Juneau would *ever* try to fight with another dog :O. I socialize him virtually every day with as many other dogs (friendly) that I can possibly find to prevent this kind of behaviour, plus he loves it. This is a huge park I am talking about, and there have been petitions to have the 'plateau' part made off-leash. It will never happen as there are wayyy too many anti-dog nazis around here. The only off-leash area is over 2 km from here which is too far to walk after work. So it's either face the potential 130.00 fine or keep my dog imprisoned at the end of a leash for eternity.

I HATE it when off leashed dogs come up to me and my leashed dog. It pisses me off. Nebo is socialized and he loves other dogs...but does the dog love him? And dogs react differently to other dogs. I cannot always guarantee my dog will be friendly to strange dogs either. Nobody can.

And how do you know this dog wasn't socialized? What kind of dog was it? Some dogs just do NOT like other dogs...that doesn't make them vicious. It's not quite a normal dog encounter either....think about it...you're on a leash, probably feeling the stress from your owner being nervous, then some other dog runs up at you freely...it's not like any regular playful encounter.

I can see this owner keeping the dog on a very tight leash, or maybe a halti/gentle leader to have better control of the head. I don't think it's quite fair to have the dog muzzled just because other people let their dogs run loose.

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Originally posted by Lalania
So it's either face the potential 130.00 fine or keep my dog imprisoned at the end of a leash for eternity.

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IMHO, there is nothing wrong with keeping a dog on leash. It is safer for the dogs, and others too. (Ask me sometime about the two times Bandit almost died while off-leash - very scary and neither time involved a car, or anyone else, or other dogs - he just got himself in some trouble he couldn't get out of) If there is an off-leash park in your area - a place where other dog owners *expect* to find other dogs off-leash, then it is fine, but I still feel any dog off-leash needs to respond perfectly to voice commands.

Just imagine how the other dog owner feels, she probably wasn't expecting to find dogs off-leash in that area where it is not legal. Personally, I would be quite upset.

Ya know....there's a BIG difference between a vicious dog and a dog that isn't dog friendly.

I think any dog that attacks a person or shows unprovoked agression towards anyone should be put down. Obviously there's something wrong with the dog as that isn't normal.

Now I have two dogs that AREN'T good with other dogs and I take them to parks. I don't take them to off-leash dog parks. If someone want to let their dogs off leash in a leash only area, then they are taking a risk. Now I also believe that I have FULL control of my dogs and that even if a dog runs up to me (which I find is irresponsible) then I have enough control that my dog isn't going to attack the other dog. Now if said dog tried to hump Wilma, well that's a whole different ball of wax.

I don't believe that my dog should have to wear a muzzle because I have her on a leash in a leash only park.

Just my $.02

Oh and just because a dog doesn't like other dogs doesn't mean it's not *loved* or *socialized*. Some dogs just don't like other dogs. Period. My dogs are very much loved and I've socialized them as much as I can.

I think it's pretty unfair to make such harsh judgments (not loved, not socialised, abused, etc.) after a five minute encounter with someone. :rolleyes:

This stirs up some uncomfortable memories. About a year after I was married my parents moved away and took my childhood dog with them (I was going into an apartment and couldn't take him). My dad was out walking him as he did every day. An unleashed (much larger) dog came up to him and attacked him. It was a serious attack and my dad was so shaken up. My mom said he was shaky and pale when he got home. After a vet visit which required stitches and antibiotics my dog was OK. I don't think any dogs should be off leash anywhere. Just my humble opinion.

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Originally posted by Pam
This stirs up some uncomfortable memories. About a year after I was married my parents moved away and took my childhood dog with them (I was going into an apartment and couldn't take him). My dad was out walking him as he did every day. An unleashed (much larger) dog came up to him and attacked him. It was a serious attack and my dad was so shaken up. My mom said he was shaky and pale when he got home. After a vet visit which required stitches and antibiotics my dog was OK. I don't think any dogs should be off leash anywhere. Just my humble opinion.

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I agree with you Pam...when Malone was still a baby we were out for a walk, and this huge dog came running up. (I don't know the breed, but he certainly didn't look friendly) He growled at me, and went after Malone. I was *so* scared. I just whisked my baby up, and started praying that he wouldn't attack us or anything. He followed me for probably half a mile, and then turned around. There was no owner in sight or anything, and it was especially scary because we were in the middle of nowhere (no houses).

It only took mere seconds for me to understand what a....er nasty person she was. And as I said the dog ACTUALLY bit and attacked another dog about 30 minutes earlier. I am not talking growling etc, I was told an actual bite. What if a small child came up to that dog when the lady wasn't looking? Scary!

I also have a different take on this:

Before I owned AKita's I too, would let my dogs loose,
but they always came back on command.
(I also never let them up to other dogs or people with-out
their permission)

Now I own Akita's.
My dogs are very much loved, basic
obed. trained, and socializd. As part of their socializing I take them to public places almost daily. They both are far from being vicouse. I dread when I am walking ROcky on leash, and I see a loose dog that is not under control.
Rocky has "dog" fear aggression.
(should I keep him locked up in the back yard with-out a life?)
NO! that would take away my freedom, and I keep him
under control with a leash which is the law.
So since my dog is under control that means the loose
dog that runs up to us, is not.
I have nothing against off leash dogs, as long as the owner
has them under control for their safety and others.
Believe me, It's no peice of cake to own a dog that does not
get along with strange dogs. Make it easier for both sides,
keep your dog on a leash or make shure it's under
your control so accidents can't happen and both
owners can enjoy the park.

P.S. Not all dog are dog friendly.
Now if a dog is vicious around humans. That dog should
be leashed and muzzled in public places.
.

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Originally posted by Lalania
It only took mere seconds for me to understand what a....er nasty person she was. And as I said the dog ACTUALLY bit and attacked another dog about 30 minutes earlier. I am not talking growling etc, I was told an actual bite. What if a small child came up to that dog when the lady wasn't looking? Scary!

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Just because a dog isn't dog friendly does not mean it would bite a child. While my dig *may* bite another unleased dog that ran up to us I have absolutely no problem saying that she would *never* bite a person, especially a child.

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Originally posted by Lalania
It only took mere seconds for me to understand what a....er nasty person she was. And as I said the dog ACTUALLY bit and attacked another dog about 30 minutes earlier. I am not talking growling etc, I was told an actual bite. What if a small child came up to that dog when the lady wasn't looking? Scary!

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I guess I'm a nasty person too, because I would have the same reaction if someone with an unleashed dog let that dog run up to mine. Not all dogs like other dogs. I think you are being unfair heaping all this blame on this lady when you were the one at fault. She was only looking out for her dog's safety. Was the other dog off-leash too?

Okay, here's my take on the whole thing. I just hope I don't offend anyone.

I think your dog should've been on a leash. That's why there are leash laws. I dog sat one year for a friend in Vermont. He had a HUUUUUUUUUGE G.S. named "Striker" who was a great dog and very well behaved, except when it came to other dogs. One day I was walking Striker on leash, and another dog came out from his yard and tried to attack Striker. I panicked because I didn't want to get in the middle of it and the owner was nowhere to be found. Fortunately, I was able to get me and Striker away before it got REAL ugly.

So, IMHO, you were wrong to have your dog off leash in a public park while there were other dogs around. *sorry*

I agree with boscibo, Amy, Pam, and everyone.

My dogs are wonderfully socialized with other dogs, especially Reece. BUT if a dog was running toward me off-leash and I had a dog aggressive dog at the other end of my leash, I'd start yelling like a crazed maniac!!!! She was concerned about the safety of the other dogs, as well as her own. And in emergency situations, sometimes people are gonna yell. It was you guys, afterall, who were breaking the rules.

And as Chesirekatt said, a dog biting another dog does not mean he will also bite a child at all. I've met so many dog aggressive dogs at work who are complete marshmellows with people and children.

Also some dogs are just plain dog aggressive, no matter how much they are socialized. I have a friend I've been volunteering at shelters with for years. She knows a ton about dog behavior and training and socilization. She has a dog aggressive dog despite her every effort. She loves him very much and he was never abused or in a bad situation.

Oh yeah and even if your dog is voice controlled really well, there's still that chance that the other dog just may be more interesting than your command. So you can't depend on that 100%.

I was walking Kia around a State Campground when this little Cocker Spanial came flying out from under a nearby trailer barking, growling, and snapping.

If Kia wanted too, she could of grabbed the dog and snapped it's neck, but instead she tucked tail and tried to run. When she got to the end of her leash and realized I couldn't keep up with her, she threw up her hackles and growled at the dog barking it's fool head off at her.

I got very close to kicking the dog to keep it away from Kia. But the dog stopped when it saw me taking a threatening stance and soon the owners were running out after their dog appologizing.

The law in MI is that all dogs need to be leashed in State Parks. No exceptions. I wish I had complained, but I let it go.

I am always wary of dogs that are loose when my dog is on a leash.

Just as I am extra careful with dogs that are on a leash. I realize not every dog is dog friendly.

"Vicious" or not, her dog was on a leash and yours were running loose. Call your dogs to you next time if you don't want them bit or keep them on a leash.

Had the "vicious" dog been running loose and then attacked one of your dogs, it'd be a different story.

Kimmy,

Amen!!!! ;)

In any case, There are literally dozens of dogs ON LEASH in that park on a nice day. That woman was stupid to bring a vicious dog into that public park knowing there is alot of dogs in there. If Juneau was dog aggressive, I would steer the heck clear of that place.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As I said, the park is FULL of dogs, most on-leash and the paths are not wide.
It's a by-law, not a law about off leash dogs. Only a fine if the dog narcs catch us.

THE DOG WAS VICIOUS!

Lailania, how do you figure? I would have the same reaction to an unknown dog running up to me and my dog...my dog is not vicious, he just doesn't like other dogs. You overreacted in this case, and you were at fault. If you don't like this type of situation KEEP YOUR DOG ON LEASH! I and many others here have siad they would react in the same way to this so called "monster".

Way to backpedal and say "maybe" it was an off-leash site; was it or wasn't it? Is it an off leash dog park? If it wasn't, you should have kept your dog on-leash.

I don't place one bit of blame on the "monster" dog owner, she has just as much right as you and your dog to be in the park. Not all dog owners welcome strange dogs in their dog's face - I for one do not. What if it was your dog who got hurt? It would be *your* fault if your dog was off-leash. You should be thanking her for the warning - it could have been your dog injured in an altercation, and it wouldn't be the person who has their dog on-leash's fault.

Yep, I agree with most people on here. Unless it is specifically an off-leash dog park, anyone who has their dog off-leash there is in the wrong. I take my dogs out running in the prairie off-leash all the time ... but I go waaaayyyy out, where there is not another person for miles. I would NEVER let my dog off-leash where he was supposed to be leashed. It is irresponsible, blatant defiance of leash laws that make legislatures pass even stricter leash-laws, and give the anti-dog groups more ammunition. You are hurting ALL dog owners when you defy leash laws.

My dogs are very friendly, but I don't know how they would react if they were on a leash and two off-leash dogs came running up to them. They might take a chunk out of one of them, too, and they would be within their rights to do so, IMO. A dog on a leash is in the vulnerable position, in their eyes, and often view the other dogs as a threat to them and/or their owners.

I HATE it when dogs off-leash come up to my dogs when they are on-leash. I am obeying the law, the other person is breaking it. My dog is in a sit/stay by my side, on a leash, and here comes this out-of-control dog with unknown intentions bounding up full-speed. It's not fair, and it's not right.

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unknown intentions bounding up full-speed

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Exactly! There's no way of knowing what's going through an animal's mind as they come toward you and I think it's unfair to expect other people to know that your dog is harmless.

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Originally posted by Twisterdog
It is irresponsible, blatant defiance of leash laws that make legislatures pass even stricter leash-laws, and give the anti-dog groups more ammunition. You are hurting ALL dog owners when you defy leash laws.

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Amen. This is why so many parks don't allow dogs at all. Even on a leash.

eh?? me? backpedal??? NEVER! I stand by everything I have said. My point is MERELY that there are ARE tons of onleash dogs in that park! the paths are NOT wide so her dog will be approached by other dogs. I tell ya, I took J to that park today and since there were no doggies to play with, he stayed onleash. I kept my eyes peeled for that psycho and her dog and I would have avoided her like the plague if I spotted her. Her dog *IS* dog-aggressive, and I define any adult dog that bites as *vicious* so that dog should be nowhere near any other dogs, onleash or off!!! unless said psycho likes lawsuits etc.

nuff said, I'm done.

I was at an aggression workshop just yesterday. Your definition of vicious is not exactly correct. I think we all agree the dog is dog aggressive, no one argued that. However, you are complaining that a woman was walking her dog on a leash and your dog bounded up to them off leash ... in an on leash park. I just can't see the logic of the complaint.

I agree that people should keep dog aggressive dogs out of OFF LEASH parks, but other than that, as long as they are on leash, they should be able to go for a walk in the park. What if Juneau was dog aggressive? You say he needs his exercise. Would you never take him on walks and leave him in your home? No, I am pretty sure you'd be walking him.

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Originally posted by Lalania
Her dog *IS* dog-aggressive, and I define any adult dog that bites as *vicious* so that dog should be nowhere near any other dogs, onleash or off!!! unless said psycho likes lawsuits etc.

nuff said, I'm done.

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Hmmmm.....my *vicious* dogs successfully completed obedience classes with other dogs without muzzles and even managed to earn Top Dog standings. They've become Canine Good Citizens and are very well behaved. Nobody in our classes had a fit. They were all very well versed in dog behavior. I've never had an experienced dog behavorist suggest to me that my dogs never be around other dogs. *shrug*

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Originally posted by Lalania
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As I said, the park is FULL of dogs, most on-leash and the paths are not wide.
It's a by-law, not a law about off leash dogs. Only a fine if the dog narcs catch us.

THE DOG WAS VICIOUS!

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If there is a fine if caught, that means dogs off-leash is a no-no. The width of the paths its totally irrelevant. See, at first you said it was not legal for dogs to be off-leash in this park, then you state this. That, in my book, is backpedaling - changing the story mid-stream to get people to accept your point of view.

My "vicious" dog also completed obedience classes and was perfectly fine off leash around the rest of the class of loose dogs. In a park, with a strange dog running towards him who we don't know, totally different game. How was the lady supposed to know? Your dog might have been vicious, and dogs will do things that surprise you - like fight with strange dogs no matter how many other dogs they've been around.

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Originally posted by Lalania
I define any adult dog that bites as *vicious* so that dog should be nowhere near any other dogs, onleash or off!!!

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I'm curious then, why you were rude to Ash about Chewy, asking how he could be "vicious" when he had in fact biten other dogs and people.

I agree with everyone else. When I take Keegan to the park that doesn't allow dogs offleash, I only let her offleash inside the totally enclosed baseball diamond. Park officials have seen me and noone has said anything.
I also think that maybe the reason the dog and lady freaked is b/c you "ran to them screaming my head off". I would freak out to if someone did that.
When Keegan and I were going into the dog park awhile ago, a couple were coming out with 3 dogs. She asked me if I would take Keegan about 50-60 feet away b/c she has 2 dog aggressive dogs and didn't want Keegan to get hurt. She was very nice, smiled and said "THANK YOU VERY MUCH ENJOY YOUR WONDERFUL DAY"
Bottom line is you illegally had your dog off leash and the other lady was following the rules.
Oh by the way, why is it you are so speedy condemn this lady and her dog. It sounds like you would have her tarred and feathered. You say it is abused etc, if it was so abused she wouldn't have had it at the park. Yet you also quickly judged Ashley and Chewy, without reading the whole thread either. And Chewy WAS dog/people aggressive.
Point to ponder.

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Originally posted by aly
I was at an aggression workshop just yesterday. Your definition of vicious is not exactly correct. I think we all agree the dog is dog aggressive, no one argued that. However, you are complaining that a woman was walking her dog on a leash and your dog bounded up to them off leash ... in an on leash park. I just can't see the logic of the complaint.

I agree that people should keep dog aggressive dogs out of OFF LEASH parks, but other than that, as long as they are on leash, they should be able to go for a walk in the park. What if Juneau was dog aggressive? You say he needs his exercise. Would you never take him on walks and leave him in your home? No, I am pretty sure you'd be walking him.

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Aly, I totally agree here: "However, you are complaining that a woman was walking her dog on a leash and your dog bounded up to them off leash ... in an on leash park. I just can't see the logic of the complaint."

Whether it's a bylaw or a "real" law, it's still a law. Like I said in my first response, if I was afraid in that situation, I would want Garth to protect me. I don't disagree that perhaps the dog needs some training so it isn't so violent, but that doens't mean the lady who was following the rules should be punished.. she was the one who was abiding by the laws.

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Originally posted by Lalania
Collars come off, leashes slip etc
So it's either face the potential 130.00 fine or keep my dog imprisoned at the end of a leash for eternity.

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If you think being on the end of a leash is imprisoned, please don't ever get a greyhound or even a sighthound. Letting them off leash is almost certain death.
Please see this link for more details.
http://www.siberescue.com/Common/Leash/leashTRUST.html

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Originally posted by Lalania
unless said psycho likes lawsuits etc.

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If there was a lawsuit against her, she would definitely win and you would have to pay because she did not break any rules. You did. The narrowness of the path means nothing. Your dog went to her's. He didn't go to Juneau. He was on a leash. It was YOUR responsibilty to keep your dog away from other people/dogs, and the woman with her dog on a leash, walking, minding her own busines has NO blame whatsoever. You didn't leash your dog, you let him go to another dog that you don't even know, the dog got upset, and you are blaming the other owner. :rolleyes: Makes no sense at all. Well said Amy and shais_mom.