Chewy, I need elp on the most important decision ever

Chewy bit my sister Abbey for no reson. I was there. He bit her arm but luckily she was wearing her coat. He bit her and refused to let go. If she wasn't wearing her coat I'm 100% sure she would have bled. He also snapped at me when I tried to take him to my room. My sister and mother both think I should put him down, I'm starting to agree with them. I don't think he will stop and I can't have my dog biting people. He is getting worse and worse and now when you pull on his collar he will growl and snap at you. I was wonderign what you all thought? I know you don't know everything that he has done or you have never met Chewy, but I would like your opionion. Now please don't think of Chewy as your dog but as a my dog and yo uare giving advice to one of your best friends so be truthful. I have a feeling you will say not to put him down there is hope but I don't think there is. I have givin it awile to set in so that I wouldn't make a spure of the momenth shoice but I have and I have really thought about it.

Ash

putting him down i think should be the last thing that should cross your mind. but it may be a have to kinda thing. i hate doing this but smack his mouth. buy a muzzle. that is what made my pom quit biting.

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Originally posted by lute
putting him down i think should be the last thing that should cross your mind. but it may be a have to kinda thing. i hate doing this but smack his mouth. buy a muzzle. that is what made my pom quit biting.

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Actually it was our very very last resort. But now when people come over Chewy has to be locked up and He can't go any where any more and Teddy and Huney are now doing the presentation at school with me, if I do it. Smacking his mouth would make him worse not better, I've treid and he snapped at me.

Ash

I think your last resort should be giving him to a home who can help him out of this habbit, someone who knows dog behavior and can care for him. I don't think you should put him down :[

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Originally posted by slleipnir
I think your last resort should be giving him to a home who can help him out of this habbit, someone who knows dog behavior and can care for him. I don't think you should put him down :[

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Agreed.


Today i visited Roxy and talked to one of the best volunteers there. She was telling me how Roxy need help and dicipline. Befor when I had taken Roxy out by myself, she was fine. Today it was me, my dad and my friend Becky. We took her out and she got very hyper and a little too much. She thought of our hands as chew toys and would NOT stop no matter what we did. She did stop after a while, after a few scratches and some teeth marks on our hands. I don't think she's trying to be agressive, i don't think she meant to hurt us.. She just doesn't know when to stop and how to play correctly. She's also horrible on her leash. I'd love to adopt her and help her along with her porblesm but we can't have a hyper dog who doesn't know when to stop, he'd go insane and I think i would too. I love her to death though, she's a sweetie besides her problems and one of the most beautiful dogs i've seen. I'll continue to visit her, but i think visits are all she's going to get. She's a big dog and could knock even the strongest of men on their behind.

Ash-
Sorry for blabbing on in your thread. I don't think he should be put down. He's still a puppy right?? Maybe you could contact a rescue and see what they have to say befor you go to putting him down. Maybe they have people that can help him, or someone willing to spend more time [although i know you've done alot with him.] He's a smart dog, just look at all of thoose tricks. He's beautiful. His life does not deserve to end... I'm not sure what else to say but i really think you should give him a second try with another family, new surrounding and all. Maybe he needs a change or maybe they have something more to offer in helping him along. Hope this helped a little bit, and if not, sorry I have nothing else to offer.

He needs help. He may need to be rehomed with someone who can help him. I would write to every behaviorist you can find, and ask if they know anyone who could take him. How very sad for you both, but that behavior is unacceptable.

How sad!! Poor Abbey--she's ok, right?? My parents had a golden retriever that bit everyone and attacked other dogs (believe it or not)--it was inbred, and sick, so they had to have him put down at 6 years--my stepmother still cries when she sees one.

I don't think you should have him put down, maybe just placed somewhere else. I know it is the LAST thing you want to do (besides putting him down), but it may be best for both of you.

Let us know what you decide, and how it is going.

ash, i am so sorry you need to go through this. you give chewy so much time and affection, it is so sad it has come down to this. i have no other advice, i just want to wish you luck and i'm praying that chewy will change. i know it would be hard, but praying always helps. i hope abbey is alright and you and your family make the right decision. he is dangerous to have around so maybe doing what slleipnir suggested would be best (and better than putting him down). {{hugs}} good luck

first of all i cant see anyone putting down such an adorable dog but he cant be biting. Why dont you try special training or something.....
my prayers are with you:( :)

and chewy

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Originally posted by rizzy
first of all i cant see anyone putting down such an adorable dog but he cant be biting. Why dont you try special training or something.....
my prayers are with you:( :)

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Aww thax. He is the cutest aint he?? Gotta love his big brown nose and his gold eyes.

I dont' want to give him to anotehr place, to Mugsy (if she offered) or to a rescue organization because if he bite them I wouldn't be able to deal with that. Expecially Molly or Mike, as someone told em to ask them to take him. He bit my sister for no reson and then when I treid to take him back to my room he snapped at me and if I hadn't of had his coller he would haev got me. Now trust me I would never put Chewy down for snapping because well, I've been bit by Teddy liek 10 times, but its diffrent with him. And Chewy is big a powerful. I mean what if that was little Judy a girl I carpull with? Or what if the trainer had kids or other dogs he will hurt other dogs and could possibly bit the kids.

Well anyways, I know you guys won't like this but we have decid to put him down. He is to much aof a powerful dog to be doing this. I talked to the trainer who knows Chewy and who has followed our process and she backs us up 100%> I havn't stopped crying for 2 hours. This is just how it has to be, I want to help him I really do. This is one of the hardest thigns I have ever had to do but I think this is what needs to be done.

Ash

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Originally posted by Kfamr
new surrounding and all. Maybe he needs a change or maybe they have something more to offer in helping him along. Hope this helped a little bit, and if not, sorry I have nothing else to offer.

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Thanx Kayann. Acctaulyl Chewy got new surrounds 2 months ago when we moved. I have done everything the trainer I've been working with told me to. I don't think there is anything else that can be done to help him. Thank you for posting and taking the time to help us out though ::hugs::

Ash

omg i am so sorry ashley!! :(:( poor chewy! but it is for the best, i suppose. i don't knwo what else to say:( please take care of yourself. give chewy a big hug from me and mickey :(:(

I seriously think you NEED to talk to a rescue organization befor you decide anything to drastic.

Ash, I'm so sorry. I understand your decision. I know how hard it must be. I wish you the best and if nothing else, at least you know you did all you could do for him. I know that aggressive dogs can be very dangerous and sometimes no matter what we do, the aggression escaltes. I also admire you for not being willing to put another person at risk. Please let us know if we can help you. I'm so very sorry.:(

Hi Ash,

Here's the bottom line: you know Chewy and we don't. It is my first instinct to beg you not to put him down. But after having worked with some aggressive dogs in shelters over the years, I am starting to understand that some dogs are just ... aggressive. I know you've been struggling with this for a long time and have even had professional help. I applaud you for trying to fix the problem for so long. Maybe a behviorist and a new environment could fix him, but maybe not.

Many people decide to just keep aggressive dogs but they'll keep them locked up all the time so they don't have to deal with it. That is no life for a dog and sometimes they are better off laid to rest (I can't even believe I'm saying all this - its so hard for me).

At the end of the day, the decision is yours and your family's. I know Chewy is so young, but some of the things you describe have been really scary and don't seem like normal puppy behavior. What if he gets older and gets 10 times worse?

I would tell you to seek second and third opinions and so forth, but I think you have done that.

Its just so hard for us to judge because we can't see it. I'm sure its much worse for you to witness and it might not sound so bad when you type it on the computer because people are removed from the situation.

Oh yeah, never hit or use physical violence on an aggressive dog. 99.99% of the time it makes it muuuuuuuch worse.

So anyway, what I'm trying to tell you - don't feel bad about your decision. You are the one in the situation who knows all the details and all the horrific experiences. Not letting go of a child's arm is VERY VERY VERY bad. Please feel confident and seek comfort knowing that you made the best decision you could. I know you would not put him down if not absolutely necessary. I'm crying so much right now. I'm a big softie who believes every dog should live ... but I am starting to understand and become less naive about just some dogs need to be put down :( poor Chewy.

My prayers are with you. I know it will be very hard. Please spoil him for his last days :(

** sorry I sound like a babbling idiot - hope you get the gist of the message though :(

I agree. I SERIOUSLY think you should consider giving him to someone who maybe knows more about it rather then putting him down, I don't think thats fair to him..I know he's bitey and all, but I duno..

I don't believe you are doing the right thing putting him down so early.


When I worked as a trainer there were a lot of dogs there who needed stern discipline the right way. Yes we get bit, but that is our job and that is what we are trained to do. You can't just take one persons word as gospel, your trainer is only one out of money who would be willing to help.


Maybe your home is just not the right home for him....that shouldn't have to condemn him to death should it? I do believe you care for Chewy a great deal but please give him a chance with another trainer or rescue. We see TONS of dogs, and a lot nip.bite/bark/dig etc, but most can be trained to stop that disruptive behavior. If after seeing other trainers etc. he does not get better, then make the decision. Every dog deserves a second chance, or more.

Do you know dogs could smell feel? They will sometimes bite because of that.

There are also drugs that could help him get better. Just because your family is not the one who can meet his special needs doesn't mean there is one out there who can't.


Please give him another chance. :(

Ash has given him a lot of chances. This isn't new behavior from him. I really do not think that she made a snap decision at all. I'd be the last person to support her if I thought she was acting too quickly. Also from what she describes, that is not normal nipping/biting/etc .. he wouldn't let go of a child's arm. That is pretty severe. I know she doesn't take this decision lightly and she's probably off right now crying her eyes out.

The best we can do is support her through this tough time :( I *think* she did say she was going to call other trainers or behaviorists for advice. Not quite sure though.

I have had internships with some applied animal behaviorists - one of them specializing in aggression - and I really think Chewy sounds aggressive beyond help. You would think its because of his breed, but his breed just has nipping tendencies since they're herders. Not letting go is another thing :(

Could it be that he nipped and then had the jacket in his mouth and thought it would be fun to wrestle with it?


It doesn't sound like she consulted any other behaviorists besides her current one.


As a herder he is probably just trying to "round them up" so to speak. Perhaps a home where he can act out those tendencies naturally would be a big help to him, he could reflect those feeling in a positive matter.

Send him to a farm...I am sure there are a lot of people out there who would be willing to put his nipping skills to work.


I just think she should talk to people who are experienced with his type before making that decision, I would hate to have them regret it later. :(

Well I thought she did. I don't know. I will let her respond so I don't give false info.

I am sorry if I am seeming cruel or non supportive Ash, whatever decision you make I will fully support you.


Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.


I remember watching animal planet and this family was on with their shepherd mix dog. The dog was laying on the floor in the kitchen when the couples daughter went to pet the dog. The dog bit her and she needed stitches. They were going to euthanize the dog but first consulted with a vet who ran tests and found out the dog suffered from terrible arthritus and had to have surgery. The dog was in a lot of pain and did not bite out of agression, simply pain. Well the spared the dogs life and a couple of months later there was a big fire and the dog saved the family and girl from death. The dog went into the girls room and woke her up, and she than woke up her parents who got out of the house safely. If it weren't for the dog they would have died. His barking saved their life.

Now I am not saying Chewy is a life saver lol, this was just a little story to show that maybe there is another cause behind his nipping. You never know.

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Originally posted by luckies4me

Aly, it's just that I have seen this so many times. Dogs trying to play when owners mistake it as agression (not saying this is the case) hearding dogs acting out what is only natural to them, dogs who have a hidden infection/arthritus etc. who snap because they are in pain etc. There can be so many causes. If he is truly agressive and no treatment can help him then yes he should be put down and that will ultimately be the best decision for him and his family.

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Yes, I've been working at shelters enough years that I have seen this way too much too. I don't know if you've been following her posts, but this has been going on for a long time. Just a lot of what she describes doesn't sound like herding behavior - some of it does like when she is running and he bites her. But not all of it does.

I think we agree that if he is truly aggressive, the best thing to do would be to put him down. And if its just herding stuff, he would definately be better off in rescue. Maybe Ash can describe more circumstances in this thread to give everyone a better understanding.

Thanks, I am glad we understand eachother. :)

I have refrained from replying to most of your posts regarding Chewy until now, because it seemed to me that you weren't quite ready to hear my sure-to-be-unpopular opinion on this matter.

I own a boarding kennel and grooming shop, and have been on the board of directors at the humane society for the past seven years. Before that I volunteered in various capacities at a couple humane societies in different parts of the country, since 1986. I have also done pet-sitting and dog training, and have co-led a 4-H dog club. So, in short, I have quite of bit of experience with dogs.

My personal opinion on your dog is that the best thing you can do at this point, for both your family and the dog, is to euthanize him. Obviously, from your posts over many months, you have worked hard on reforming this dog, both on your own and with a behaviorist. It seems to me that instead of getting better, your dog has actually gotten worse, despite your best efforts.

Some dogs can't be "fixed", no matter what we try. Just like some people can be helped. It's a sad, sad fact of life. A dog that continues to exhibit aggession to humans despite behavior modification and training is indeed a liability, to himself and his owners. Your dog is a lawsuit and/or medical bill waiting to happen. It is not natural or normal for a dog to be aggressive to humans ... if it were, they would not be the beloved, trusted pet that they are today, with millions and millions of dogs living in houses with families and children. Some dogs just aren't "wired right", though, and as tragic as it is, the best and most humane thing one can is to put them out of their psychological misery.

I know this is a hard, hard thing for you to do. I have been there, and had to do it, so I know first hand what you are going through. I had to take a rottweiler to the vet and have him euthanized for the same reason - ongoing and progressive aggression towards humans. It was very, very hard to do ... and he wasn't even technically my dog, he was a dog at our shelter. You need to keep in mind, however, that you are doing the kindest and most prudent thing for the dog, and your family. Sometimes the best choices in life are the hardest to make.

take obedience clsses? a muzzle? shock collar?
i understand that u r concerned about the ppl around u getting hurt...i dont know anyone who hasnt even had the thought of putting down cross their mind, and i know some who have even considered it, including me, so i dont blame u at all....
i think that obedience classes r the best way to go...
but if u really think that putting him down is the right thing to do, then i will go with ur decision....chewy is ur dog and so its ur choice, and ur the only one here who knows for sure whats best for him

Have you tried to e-mail Best Friends...they work wonders with dogs...and have animal behaviorists on staff there....
go to bestfriends.org
look into their organization...it might help

or [email protected]
she is a good contact person.....

at least try for yours and Chewys' sake.....
aussies' are VERY nippy dogs by nature...they are Bred to Bite the heels of cattle...Heelers have the same issues....
perhaps,she is acting out her natural instincts....

maybe I'm grasping at straws....but a short e-mail couldn't hurt right?????

good luck....God Bless you and Dear Chewy

He is NOT nipping. Teddy nips and I know what that is like. Chewy's bites to kill not to play tug of war or anything. When he grabed her coat he didn't move his head he just grabed it and held on for dear life. When he attacked Teddy he bit to kill, not to play or to nip.

Thank you Aly, Twisterdog and everyone else who have been supportive. This is not easy for me and I really need to support right now. I'm still looking for options and am playing on calling some behaviorist in State college to see what they say about it. Although, I can't call every trainer in the US just to see what they think I will try to call a couple to see what they think. I'm also going to talk to my vet and see what he says. I am calling people, I don't want Chewy to die, I really don't. I know he is young, but I have tried everything else. I know many of you disagree with this and are probly mad that I'm killing an animal who has a chance at life, but its not going to be a normal life, he would have to be caged all the time and its not fair to him.

Ash

Oh...this thread is going to make me cry. :( This is not a new behavior for Chewy, and I honestly do not think it is just the nipping/herding tendencies of the Aussie either. I thought that originally she thought he might be part westie, and if that's true...terriers can also be very bitey, and that would not be a good combination. Chewy is also a young dog, and his behavior doesn't seem normal.

I know that Ash loves Chewy very, very much. And she really has worked with him, socialized him, taken him to trainers...she has tried so hard to work with his aggression problems...



Ash, I hope you will at least first contact the person at Best Friends first though...I think it's a good idea. They'll take in animals to live there for the remainder of their lives, even animals that can't be adopted.

I just want to let you know, that whatever you do, I'm behind you. I know you love Chewy and you always will love him. I wish there was something I could do to help. :( :(

Ash,

As Aly said, *YOU* know the situation best. With that thought, I support you 100% in whatever you do.

{{If you need to talk, I'm only a PM away.}}

Thank you Amy and Tonya. You guys are the best ::hugs::

Ash

I know you love Chewy very much and this is very very hard on you, but I personally totally disagree with putting any animal down for behavioral reasons. :( I know he is aggressive, wants to kill, etc. but I do NOT accept the idea of putting an aggressive animal down. :( Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him. Please please please, I beg you. I know this is very hard, but please don't kill him. :( Take him to a rescue organization and let them decide what to do. :( Don't put him down yourself. :( Please Ash, I know you love him, but PLEASE don't kill an innocent animal just because he has behavior problems. :( If he wants to be wild, wild animals have a place in this world, so please don't put him down. Give him up (meaning give him away) but please don't put him down. :(

Chewy doesn't deserve to die. :(

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Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him.

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Please, tell me how this is going to help Chewy. Ash has had him since he was a pup. She did not make him aggressive, that's just how he is. I honestly believe that some animals are born that way, though that is not normally the case. How is taking him to a shelter going to help? So somebody else will adopt him and have the same problems, or even worse? Take him to a farm so he can run wild and possibly attack livestock? Another home?? He HAS a good home. He is loved, he is cared for....and she *has* talked to several people about his behavior, and she has done whatever she could to help him. She is not just "giving up" on Chewy, this has been going on for a long time. She's still going to call and talk to some people about him, she's doing all that she can.

In the end, it is her decision...and a very, very, very, difficult one at that. I hope we can all be supportive, for whatever may lie ahead for Chewy. :(

Yeah, I guess it won't help, but I don't agree with killing him. :( Maybe giving him to a rescue organization will help. They might know what to do. :( I wish you luck Ash in making the best decision. I know it is hard, and I know you love him dearly. Just please try to do everything you can to solve the problem, yet spare his life. I hope you find the best way to solve this problem, that will be best for you, your family, and Chewy. :(

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Originally posted by popcornbird
Give him to a shelter, a rescue organization, a farm, another home, but do NOT kill him ... Take him to a rescue organization and let them decide what to do. Don't put him down yourself.

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First off, if the pup has to be put down, I think it's best if his OWNER does it. Not someone who has known him for a wk, a day, five minutes.... Not only would it be of comfort to Chewy, it would be of great comfort and closure to Ashley.

Giving an agressive dog away only leaves room for frustration and heartache. Can you imagine giving him to a farm (as luckies suggested) and having him turn against the livestock? Livestock = livelihood for those farmers. Anything that is of detriment to their livelihood must go. And unfortuantly, this often includes euthanization in an inhumane way.

The shelters? Unless it's an exceptional shelter, most consider aggressive dogs unadoptable. Chewy is likely to recieve the same fate. He might have a longer time frame with a rescue organization but a new situation, new stress....?! How is he going to adjust to that?! He is in familiar and LOVING surroundings now.. I can only imagine his actions if placed in a stressful environment.

I've spoken with Ash a few times; from our conversations and from her posts it is evident she loves her animals. Ash, I know in posting this you had to expect strong & differing opinions. While I would like to see Chewy's behavior modified so that he might live a long happy life with you, I know *YOU* know what is right for him and I stand behind you 100%.

Ash, I was just staring at the pic of Chewy in your sig for a while. He is such a cute, innocent looking pup. Its hard to imagine how he could be so aggressive. :( I wish you luck in making the best decision. I know you will do what is best for your family and for Chewy. :(

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Originally posted by zippy-kat

I've spoken with Ash a few times; from our conversations and from her posts it is evident she loves her animals. Ash, I know in posting this you had to expect strong & differing opinions. While I would like to see Chewy's behavior modified so that he might live a long happy life with you, I know *YOU* know what is right for him and I stand behind you 100%.

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Thank you to Amy and Tonya, you guys are so great. I was expecting replys like Popcorbirds, but I really didn't expect anyone to defend me against the other people, I should have known better though ::hugs::

I do love chewy, to death. And right now if someone walked in and said you or the dog I honestly would say me. I have to agree, if I gave him to a rescue they would put him down in a couple of days. I would rather be the last one to hold him in my arms and I would rather him die to the sound of my bawling then to the sound of other dogs barking. I agree a farm would not be a good place for Chewy and LOL I probly no more about agrssive dogs then an average famer and besides what will a farm do for him? He is walked 3 times a day so he gets plenty of exersise. He gets to much love, there really is nothing a famer can do, and besides what makes them such great canadates for agressive dogs?

Ash

ps: Talk about heartbraking, he just brought me my ball and I started to cry so he jumped up and licked me as if to say "I'm sorry Mom"

O another thing. I don't know what your views on this will be but...

I can't live my life without a dog. Going from having a dog of my own who I care for 24/7 to having no dog will be even harder on me then going from having Chewy then to nothing. We are going to be looking at dogs starting monday. I want one before we put Chewy down so that its not as hard and I will have something to focass my time and love on to help me get through the pain. I don't want you guys to think I'm trying to replace Chewy, cause no one can. He is my first dog and the love of my life. I love him more then anything and would do anything for him. We will not be purchasing a dog till I talk to the behaviorist cause if there is any hope at all, I will take it and work with it. Also, we will not acctaully get the dog till the day after Chewy is put down, I don't want him to think we are replacing him.

Ash

Dear Ash, I am crying so hard for you right now. I know you have loved Chewy and have worked so hard for him. And I hope you will find comfort knowing that you gave Chewy the best chance that he ever had, and that he was loved and well cared for. {{{{Ash & Chewy}}}}

And I totally understand your desire for a new pup...I hope you find "that special one"...and no, you will never "replace" Chewy, but find another companion to give special love and care to.

I'll be thinking of you.....

Anna

I hadn't seen this thread before and just read it all right now. Ash, I know you have thought long and hard about this and I don't think any of us can judge you until we have walked a mile in your shoes. I know you are experiencing a roller coaster of emotions. This is an extremely gut wrenching decision!! I can hear it in your posts. Whatever you decide to do, I will support you. {{{hugs to you and Chewy}}}