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Hi, I don't want to start any controversial subject, but am just wondering if there are any other catholics on here other than myself...and if so, what do you think about the perverted priests situation? I am horrified that the churchs first respnse was to let them get away with it. so if you want, please post or pm me.
Im just curious about others opinions about this. I guess you don't have to be catholic, but I just don't want to start some religious debate.:)
:D I PMed you :D
**hugs**
Karen
I was raised Catholic. I still have a lot of love for the church, but as an atheist/agnostic I cannot pretend anymore.
I talk about the state of the Catholic church with my mother (very devout, but understanding) a lot.
I don't think that anyone could not help but be horrified by the perverted priest situation. Molesting children is completely disgusting and wrong. The Catholic church's attempt to shuffle blame and pay out victims was shameful.
However, as much as I feel those stories needed to be told, I wonder why other denominations have not been highlighted. There have been many cases of Lutheran clergy molesting children, but without the huge furore. I'm wondering if there's a reason for that.
How do you feel about allowing priests to marry? My mother is all for it, and she also predicts the American Catholics will succede from the Vatican on other issues such as birth control. I'm conflicted about allowing priests/nuns to marry, because I think it elevates the level of committment. I guess I'd just hope that people would still opt for celebacy even if it wasn't required, as I think that's a special level of committment.
Doh! I thought this thread was "Fellow Cat-a-holics". :)
I'm Christian, not Catholic, but I also think its horrible what has been happening.
God see's all, maybe we can take solace in that.
I am not sure about the catholic religion. I have never really known any catholics to ask them their beliefs. What I feel is happening from all of this .... I grew up in a baptist church and now am a member of a penticostal church so I believe in Jesus Christ and his second coming... and well I also believe we are living in the last days and Jesus is soon to return... so now is satan's last chances to turn people away from God and into sin sooooooooooo who better than to have as prey than the priests? I think that pedofilia (sp) is just disgusting but like any sexual perversion I am sure it is hard to break so that is how the divil hit them.... and too that can make anyone who is not involved in any religion turn from it because I am sure no one is going to believe in the goodness of God when his chosen priest are molesting children,,,,,, but that is just my opinion.
I find that there's a lot of misunderstanding about the Catholic church. Part of my family is Baptist and Pentecostal, and they're always tell the Catholic half that they are not Christians, but idol worshippers. Besides be offensive, it's just so wrong. When I went to grade school I was in a mostly Protestant area and one of the school yard taunts against me was that I was a "Mary worshipper". It struck me as an odd insult, even then. Anyone have similar experiences?
I find NZ has a very anti-Catholic sentiment as well.
I really don't want to step on anybody's toes, and this is only my humble opinion. I have a very firm faith as a Christian...but it boggles my mind how anybody who is associated with the name "Catholic" can remain so. If that happened in our "religeous group" (for lack of a better term), I would run so far and so fast, my faith would be gone. Here the "Church" is supposed to be a pillar of ties to God, and something so awful as pedophile getting mixed up & HIDDEN...and therefore justified is beyond my comprehension. I so agree with you Sara:
That very thought is what keeps me going some days! (**again, this is only my $.02...please don't hold it against me**)Quote:
and well I also believe we are living in the last days and Jesus is soon to return...
Cookiebaker -
There have been plenty of child molesters of all faiths by members of various clergies. I would hope that people's faith was stronger than running away because of someone else's actions.
you can't blame the whole catholic chruch for what just some did. but I do blame them for hiding it, or not punishing them, now they are but now its because they have to. Im still catholic, but it really, really left me with a bad taste about the whole thing. before this, I NEVER would have considered changing. never would have had the thought.I don't know if I will or not, but I don't like the sweep it under the rug attitude. it is horrible and the guilty priests should have been turned away, no longer able to remain priests and should have gone to jail.
there are the same perverts in other religions, but thats right, you sure don't here much about that!
as far as the topic of if priests should be able to marry or not, that will not stop the child molesters. others that are not priests, and that are married, they have done the same thing.
Yes I agree, that not one single place is perfect. But when it is *SO* widespread and in every newspaper & all over the news for weeks?? Not just a couple of isolated incidents, but an entire downfall?? Every day a new case was being uncovered. And you would like to closely associate that with your faith in God?? Child abuse is one of THE most horrific and despicable things possible...are you saying that it was OK and that we should still have faith in a system that harbors such? I'm not saying I would lose faith in God...I would definitely lose faith in that church.Quote:
Originally posted by Soledad
Cookiebaker -
There have been plenty of child molesters of all faiths by members of various clergies. I would hope that people's faith was stronger than running away because of someone else's actions.
all I know is I believe in God, and that won't change. as far as church goes, I don't know right now.
Toughcookie, I personally think that that is most important. Have faith in God...that's the root of everything in life.Quote:
Originally posted by toughCookie
all I know is I believe in God, and that won't change. as far as church goes, I don't know right now.
Ah, I see. That makes more sense.
I think that this is one of the major signs that the Catholic church needs to undergo major change. However, the Catholic church is the oldest church, and I do not see why it should be abandoned entirely.
It is a horrible thing, but we do not know about other denominations. I know the Anglicans and Lutherans have also had problems. Just because the media doesn't pick up on them, doesn't mean they haven't had these issues.
I grew up as a Catholic child. I went to Catholic school, attended mass, was in the choir and was an altar girl. NEVER was I in anyway mistreated.
However, I went to a friend's church for a retreat. It was a "non-denominational Christian" church. And that was the first time in my life (13 years old) that I'd been approached for sex by an adult.
I am Christian and atend a Christian school.
In bible class we are learing about the second comeing and I to beleave it is to happen soon and that the anit christ is living now. As for what happned in the catholic church. Its sad, when someone does things like this. The real thing to look at though is the children invlolved. Can you even imagine.....
Ash
I just thought about another point, which is that while there are perverts in every denomination (like the so-called non-denominational one I went to for a weekend), that the Catholic cases are of media interest/public interest because the Catholic church is the only one with such a huge structure in place. I would be interested in seeing the statistics for sexual abuse in other denominations, because I'm certain there are many who would like to concentrate on the Catholics because of their own skeletons in the closet.
I never got religions. I never got in beleiving in God, however, if that what motivates you to live and wake up every morning, That's great for you. I'm one of thoose people that have to see somthing, to beleive it. I tried going to youth group, but it was so boring, and useless jibber jabber to me, i stopped. My mother hates it too. To a certain point, i do beleive in god... and religions but I just don't like them. I'm not going to stop doing stuff i love to do [Like listen to the music i like] Just because it's disrespecting to some guy that i never met or saw in my life befor. You all are going to probably jump down my throat for saying this all.. But it's what I beleive in.
I have my own religion i guess.. Because i'm not really Atheist, completely....
On the other hand, i don't think child molestation is right. And if you were just going to disown your religon, your beleifs, just because someone who was the same relgion as you did something moronic... then i think that's kind of messed up. That's like disowning one of our family members for doing something illegal.
Sorry if i offended anyone.......... my Two cents... maybe a little too much, but oh well. Thank you for listening.. or reading.... Sorry if it sounds all weird and retarded.. it's a little late... got school. night.
I'm not Catholic, but I'm Christian. One of my good friends is Catholic though. I don't think you can judge an entire religion by the actions of a handful of people...although those actions were very wrong....it can't speak for everyone in that church....
I believe in my church and everything, but I haven't been in umm...at least 3 years. Some of the people there just drive me mad. They judge you for every little thing, and think they are perfect. I hate "fake" people. I know whenever they'd try to get me to come, they were just doing it to get "brownie points" not because they really wanted me to come or cared about me. I really would like to start going again, maybe to a Singles Ward or something...everyone around here thinks I'm evil. And after not going for so long, it's really hard to get myself to go. I can't even imagine the comments I would get from people if they saw me there. Ugh.
I know exactly how you feel. I was raised Catholic, even went to Catholic school. But it was the people that made me stop going. Rather than concentrate on themselves I felt that they were judging me for who I am. They made me feel like I wasn't welcome at my own church. So I stopped going. I still have my beliefs and I hold on to them. But I realized that going to church to be criticized isn't right.Quote:
Some of the people there just drive me mad. They judge you for every little thing, and think they are perfect. I hate "fake" people.
I grew up in church .... since day one I was a member. I quit going for about 5 or 6 years throughout my REBELLIOUS teenage years. I think one reason it took me so long to go back was because I needed to find a church to suit my needs. I think that a person need not give up on going but to find somewhere that makes them happy. I love the church I go to now and it took getting married to find it.. :rolleyes: But all in all different strokes for different folks. I know there are a lot of famous t.v. preachers out there I don't like..... you can tell they are just in it for the money......sometimes you just have to seek out a pastor that really gets the word out in a way that speaks to your heart. It is true that people judge they do it at my church too... it is a shame and it is not right... I do hope KayAnn that you can find a church you are happy in and you too Amy. I found that a good church and regularly worshiping God has totally changed my life... but that is what happens when you ask Christ in your heart :)
Yeah, it's the people who have stopped me also, not the church or the beliefs. I didn't have any good experiences with the other girls my age there when I was younger. I still don't like any of them. Once they were making fun of my friend and I, and the teacher did nothing to stop it...actually she said something to go along with it, but I don't remember what it was. My friend and I got up and walked out of the class and the teacher (literally) tried to drag us back in. We used to hide in the bathrooms during class. I remember another teacher trying to bribe us with brownies to get us to come out. LOL.Quote:
Originally posted by Uabassoon
I know exactly how you feel. I was raised Catholic, even went to Catholic school. But it was the people that made me stop going. Rather than concentrate on themselves I felt that they were judging me for who I am. They made me feel like I wasn't welcome at my own church. So I stopped going. I still have my beliefs and I hold on to them. But I realized that going to church to be criticized isn't right.
Sorry for getting off-topic there.....I don't need to find a new Church, I just need to go to a ward with different people....I'm sick of the snobs...
Kmfar -
I think you made some good points, and I agree with you. Especially about leaving your religion/faith just because some people do bad things. I think that's rather lame, and not exactly loyal. To me, having faith in God or church seems similar to being in a marriage. There are good times and disastrous times.
I am Catholic and as a result, Christian, and I think that the Church made a huge mistake in not prosecuting the guilty. My other thought is this: how many of the priests are actually innocent of the charges levied against them? It always makes me suspicious when a charge is made and then all of a sudden it becomes an epidemic. It's like, "OOH look!! I can get attention by saying what HE said, so let me think which priest I want to accuse." People like that just make me ill because they cast a shadow over the REAL victims.
I have a friend at school who was molested all through her teen years by her father who would use her and then pass her around to his friends and as a result, she had had mental problems ever since and has to constantly battle the demons that haunt her. I've seen first hand the devastation that occurs with molestation and it's not pretty. I think that, not just the priests need to be evaluated, but also the victims.
I do NOT agree with the Church's stand of just taking the priest out of the dioceses and putting him in an adminstrative position where he won't be around kids. If a priest is truly guilty, then he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The Church is going to have to climb out of the 13th century and join us in the 21st century and realize that they are now under a microscope and had better do something to rectify the situation. Until that time, I have to live with what we've got: a flawed system, not unlike just about any large system in the world. I take solace in that the guilty with have to answer to a higher power when they leave this world.
There are people who are an embarrassment to their religion and they come in all shapes, sizes and religions. Right now we have a murder trial going on here in NJ for a rabbi accused of hiring a hit man to kill his wife. Sometimes we look to those in leadership positions as somehow a little holier than everyone else and we are shocked when they behave badly. We are all human and, as such, have the ability to sin. I am sure the majority of the ministers, priests and rabbis out there are deeply committed to what they believe and are living moral lives and just trying to serve God. It's always the bad people that make it to the news. I am not Catholic but am a Christian. Christians of all denominations must never forget that they are not worshipping a doctrine or an ideology but rather Jesus Christ. I may not agree with everything that is said from Christian pulpits but would never stop going to church because the Lord tells us that is where we can go to build each other up and to learn and grow and share. If I was in a church I didn't care for I would just leave and find another. My two cents too. ;)
Exactly my thoughts! I've always had trouble with anyone idolizing a pastor/priest/rabbi, etc. They are no better than you or I, yet they are constantly seen as holy...they aren't, only Jesus and God are.Quote:
Originally posted by Pam
There are people who are an embarrassment to their religion and they come in all shapes, sizes and religions. Right now we have a murder trial going on here in NJ for a rabbi accused of hiring a hit man to kill his wife. Sometimes we look to those in leadership positions as somehow a little holier than everyone else and we are shocked when they behave badly. We are all human and, as such, have the ability to sin. I am sure the majority of the ministers, priests and rabbis out there are deeply committed to what they believe and are living moral lives and just trying to serve God. It's always the bad people that make it to the news. I am not Catholic but am a Christian. Christians of all denominations must never forget that they are not worshipping a doctrine or an ideology but rather Jesus Christ. I may not agree with everything that is said from Christian pulpits but would never stop going to church because the Lord tells us that is where we can go to build each other up and to learn and grow and share. If I was in a church I didn't care for I would just leave and find another. My two cents too. ;)
As far as leaving a faith because of other people, I really don't agree with. My mom always makes the comment "And they are supposed to be CHRISTIANS (insert venomous tone here)" Um...please show me the church that you can attend and suddenly become perfect....I want to go there! I am not advocating judging in people at churches, it is so completely wrong, only God can judge, but to leave a faith because of that...this is unnecessary, you are the one that losses in the end. There are so many wonderful churches out there.
OK, I'm done. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Thank you, Mugsy, for FINALLY clarifying that Catholics are Christians.....I don't know why people struggle with that so much. I must have seen it in seven prior posts...I am not an expert on religion (I just play the role on TV, he he he), so I won't go too long here. But, I DO think it is something more specific to the Catholic faith (as opposed to the small 'c' catholic beliefs), because of the structure of the religion- it is very old, steeped tremendously in rote rituals, and not AS forward thinking as some of the later delevoped religions- lutheran, presby, baptists, etc. Surely molestation occurs regardless of race, creed, color, religion. But, some infrastructures are more easily able to confine the happenings, because of the under currents of the roles the various people play. I also think it has something to do with the whole celibacy thing...though I think there is research out there that would suggest molesters are NOT interested in the adult relationship..which is why they prey on children. Molesters are more typically male, then female, so, any large group consisting of mainly men (scouts, priests) will have a higher percentage of molesters than, say, a mixed group would (at least reduced by 50%, if the group is evenly mixed)...maybe that is why it seems more targeted in the Catholic faith...because it is largely male dominated? I seem to recall a large outbreak in the scouts a few years back. Probably why it garners such media support is the incongruity between molesters and the preachings of the church. Hmmm...I guess I had more to say than I thought??
You've said it all ;) :DQuote:
Originally posted by Cookiebaker
Toughcookie, I personally think that that is most important. Have faith in God...that's the root of everything in life.
This is exactly true. I too am a Catholic Christian...born raised, attended an all Catholic school from grades 1-8 and survived! HA!Quote:
Originally posted by Pam
... If I was in a church I didn't care for I would just leave and find another. My two cents too. ;)
I agree, I don't think it's right to not punish someone appropriately for the crime they have committed. Be it priests, celebrities, or the "common man". They should all be treated equally when it comes to paying for a crime they have committed.
It is wrong and sick and shouldn't be tolerated. However, this whole thing didn't help the way people view the Catholic church. I have noticed that a lot of times, when people find out I'm Catholic, they react like I have the plague. They think the Catholic church is still stuck in the midieval times when bad things were happening. However, the church has changed with the times, you just have to find the right one for you.
For me, church was always a litte boring, and something my parents always dragged me to...never missed a sunday or holiday or holy day. When I moved to Cincinnati (for that brief period of 6 months) I found the absolute best Catholic church I had ever been in. I have never been to one like it before, and I haven't found one that is as good since then. My husband was not Catholic when we married, but it was his decision to convert. So, after we got married in June of 1999 and we moved to Cincinnati we found a Catholic church nearby that had RCIA (A class for people that want to convert to the Catholic religion offered by the church). I can tell you, I was much impressed with this church, and the RCIA classes were so interesting that I attended with my husband as support. We talked about a lot of the issues that the Catholic church had in the past and it is true that different churches view things differently. This church (it was called Good Shepherd) seemed to be a very open-minded church, as they put it...they have changed with the times. They said that a lot of people stray from the church because they don't like it, or rather, they just didn't feel they fit in with the church they attended. It's ok to "shop" around for the right church and atmosphere that fits your needs. The Good Shepherd even had groups for parents of gay children, gay couples groups and events, abortion support groups...etc...usually things that the "stereotypical" Catholic church would have supposedly frowned upon...or would it have? Good Shepherd didn't judge. Not to mention, the mass was spectacular every Sunday. I was very sad to leave that church behind when I moved to California.
Anyway, my point is...I'm saddened when people judge an entire group (religious, ethnic, whatever...) by a few of the bad seeds. They're everywhere...no matter where you turn, no matter what race, religion, gender you happen to be. Yes, I'm Catholic, but I believe in what I believe in...and it may not fit to a tee with what the Catholic church may or may not believe in, but it's a foundation for me.
My look on life is to live and be happy with what you have. Believe in what you want to believe in and accept those who are different. Don't be quick to judge and always ask questions of things you don't know, but want to know and understand. Only then, can we all live in harmony.
:D
**hugs**
WHAT? Something GOOD in Cincinnati? NEVER!!! He he he...I know of the church, it is in the area of the high school I graduated from.
Really?? :D That was a very nice area. We loved that church:) We lived in a town home right off of the highway 1 exit before the Kings Island exit. I forget the name of it now though! :eek:Quote:
Originally posted by Cataholic
WHAT? Something GOOD in Cincinnati? NEVER!!! He he he...I know of the church, it is in the area of the high school I graduated from.